Police beat a man to death, and DA sez: No Evidence LEO intended to kill him!

[Savage .250]

Sure hope the civilian review board gets a-hold of this. They`ll get to the bottom of it!   
    Ya, right...........
   

[yellowtail3]

[/url]


Until mid-June, I was working in Irwindale, about 25 miles from Fullerton. If I were still there, I'd be in that march.

[/url]

[Dee]

You guys have it all wrong again.  Police are the good guys.  They were just trying to make our streets safer.  We are not to question them.  Just keep your head down and say yes sir and maybe they won't beat you to death.

OF COURSE! AND THE "LAWYER" PROSECUTOR IS SAYING: WHERE'S YOUR "PROOF OF INTENT"?    
 
BUT HEY! THEM "LAWYERS" ARE THE "REAL" GOOD GUYS, THEIR GONNA STRAIGHTEN EVERYBODY OUT!

[45-70.gov]

we  need this big powerful  police force  or else people will take drugs

[nw_hunter]

You guys have it all wrong again.  Police are the good guys.  They were just trying to make our streets safer.  We are not to question them.  Just keep your head down and say yes sir and maybe they won't beat you to death.

OF COURSE! AND THE "LAWYER" PROSECUTOR IS SAYING: WHERE'S YOUR "PROOF OF INTENT"?    
 
BUT HEY! THEM "LAWYERS" ARE THE "REAL" GOOD GUYS, THEIR GONNA STRAIGHTEN EVERYBODY OUT!

I agree Dee! The big problem overall is with the courts (Lawyers), but the lawyers didn't beat this poor soul to death. The cops did! We have a lot of problems facing us in the good old USA, and the lack of protecting and serving is one of them.There is absolutely no excuse for a crime like this, and it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

These thugs should be brought up on manslaughter charges.When they are slapped on the wrist, only because they were seen by too many people to completely ignore, it's telling like minded thugs wearing a uniform they can do likewise. The so called (peace officers) that did this should be made an example of. It should never be tolerated!

[Dee]

Ever arrested a guy on PCP? He has no pain threshhold. You can blow a hole in him, and and until he either bleeds out, or runs out of oxygen, he keeps fighting. You can't get him to stop until one of these events catches up to his body, and it shuts down.
I'm not condoning this. I haven't seen the evidence, I haven't seen the video, and I don't know the REAL circumstances YET! Right now it's new feed, and lawyer propaganda, when no one here, really knows the TRUTH yet.
The cops may be guilty as hell, and then again, perp may have been higher than a hindu, and totally out of control. I look at the clean cut photo of him in better days, and I take note of the long beard in the hospital photo. Anyone taken the time to see, or find out what actually happened, to start this? Didn't think so. So far all anyone has, is new feed.
Of course we have the resident lawyer weighing in, and sarcastically making condesending remarks about the cops, but he left out the LAWYER PROSECUTOR'S part in this "travesty of justice".   Of course "that's what lawyers do". Ignore the evidence, and make false accusations BEFORE THE WHOLE STORY IS TOLD. He is always wanting "professiona respect", but seldom gives it.
As I said: The cops may be guilty as hell. But then again, nobody hopped the LAWYER PROSECUTOR that's yellin NO INTENT! I think I'll wait and see what shakes out, rather than judge some guys that were doin what know one else had the nerve to do.

[Cabin4]

How come this case has not being well covered by the main stream left wing media groups? Can someone explain this?

[yellowtail3]

You guys have it all wrong again.  Police are the good guys.  They were just trying to make our streets safer.  We are not to question them.  Just keep your head down and say yes sir and maybe they won't beat you to death.

OF COURSE! AND THE "LAWYER" PROSECUTOR IS SAYING: WHERE'S YOUR "PROOF OF INTENT"?    
 
BUT HEY! THEM "LAWYERS" ARE THE "REAL" GOOD GUYS, THEIR GONNA STRAIGHTEN EVERYBODY OUT!

I agree Dee! The big problem overall is with the courts (Lawyers), but the lawyers didn't beat this poor soul to death. The cops did!

I think what you're seeing, is some deflection. Police DO NOT want to be held to the same standard at citizens. The DO COVER FOR EACH OTHER - the kind of covering that would get you thrown in jail.


Kelly Thomas is dead. He was beaten to death by the police. It's as simple as that. The police and their DA pals will obfuscate and distract and deflect - you'll hear some jargon thrown around.


The NEED TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT, otherwise there is not justice. The guys who did this, their leadership, should to be charged - just like you would be, should you beat someone to death. But the DA and cops are playing to their interests, and not the public's interest.

[/url]


Here's a question: is it ever right to resist police?
Would justice have been done, if Kelly Thomas - after the beating started - pulled a mousegun and shot a couple of the cops in the face? Just wonderin'.... what say ye?

[dukkillr]

Ever arrested a guy on PCP? He has no pain threshhold. You can blow a hole in him, and and until he either bleeds out, or runs out of oxygen, he keeps fighting. You can't get him to stop until one of these events catches up to his body, and it shuts down.
I'm not condoning this. I haven't seen the evidence, I haven't seen the video, and I don't know the REAL circumstances YET! Right now it's new feed, and lawyer propaganda, when no one here, really knows the TRUTH yet.
The cops may be guilty as hell, and then again, perp may have been higher than a hindu, and totally out of control. I look at the clean cut photo of him in better days, and I take note of the long beard in the hospital photo. Anyone taken the time to see, or find out what actually happened, to start this? Didn't think so. So far all anyone has, is new feed.
Of course we have the resident lawyer weighing in, and sarcastically making condesending remarks about the cops, but he left out the LAWYER PROSECUTOR'S part in this "travesty of justice".   Of course "that's what lawyers do". Ignore the evidence, and make false accusations BEFORE THE WHOLE STORY IS TOLD. He is always wanting "professiona respect", but seldom gives it.
As I said: The cops may be guilty as hell. But then again, nobody hopped the LAWYER PROSECUTOR that's yellin NO INTENT! I think I'll wait and see what shakes out, rather than judge some guys that were doin what know one else had the nerve to do.

A few things:
1) I mentioned the prosecutor.  You must not have read it, I'm not surprised.
2) If you would like to start a thread about how this beating is lawyer's fault and title it, "Lawyers cause police to beat man to death..." then you wouldn't be off topic.  Otherwise you're just shifting blame and attacking others to protect motivations we all understand.
3) It seems that many above made critical remarks about the police and yet you didn't invidually blame their professions.  One was even a corrections officer I think.  Someone maybe even suggested putting them in a wood chipper but that brought no response?  Biased maybe?
 

[yellowtail3]

How come this case has not being well covered by the main stream left wing media groups? Can someone explain this?

I think because they're not as far 'Left' as you imply, and... they mostly just roll over for this sort of thing. You know... support our police, all that?

[Cabin4]

I’m fairly certain we all know why. Its because the guy is not a minority. So it’s all about race and the racists liberals/democrats/media and most Obama supporters.
 
On another note, just remember, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty and you are guilty until proven innocent. Forget what the "justice" system advertizes. It’s all a smokescreen to the truth of public perception.
 

[Dee]

i cant understand why 6 cops trained to subdue a person couldn't take this  guy down and controil him. without beating him to death. if it took that much force then the cops and everyone close were in danger use lethal force

Really?  You can't understand why they would beat this guy to death?  Have you ever met a cop?  It didn't require lethal force, but that doesn't mean they weren't excited to use it.
 
And, as mentioned above, you will never EVER get a cop to tell the honest truth on another cop.  The comparison to a biker gang is close, but it's more like the mob.  Still, those groups are not paid by the public TO UPHOLD THE LAW!
 
DAs are elected, and the endorsement of the local cop leadership is important to them, as is the testimony of the various cops on criminal cases.  They are very intertwined.  I'm not surprised there are no charges, nor am I not surprised there isn't more outrage. 
 
Too many people simply assume cops are good people doing the right thing and they honestly don't care about the rights of individuals suspected in a crime.  Sadly, most of those people believe that they support the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Due Process.

Talk about being off topic. Your doin your moderator gig on me, and you have drifted into your prejudice against cops in general, and are trying to hold me to a higher standard than you yourself are holding to. This thread is about ONE INCIDENT, and you've EXPANDED IT, into all cops, and their PERCEIVED BELIEF SYSTEM.
You can say what you want, and drift into opinions on all cops, and about their beliefs, (which your SURMIZING) but if YOU think I drift even slightly, your suggesting I start another thread. How hypocritical is that?  

[SHOOTALL]

Dee stated the truth in many cases , it goes back to the days of throw down guns and such. Right or wrong in many cases when a group of men work a dangerous job or area they understand what the others are up aginst and protect them. Do some take it to far , sure they do. The other option is every cop be alone on the street.

[blind ear]

A picture of the officers? ear

[dukkillr]

Dee stated the truth in many cases , it goes back to the days of throw down guns and such. Right or wrong in many cases when a group of men work a dangerous job or area they understand what the others are up aginst and protect them. Do some take it to far , sure they do.

You'll get no argument from me.  No question this is happening, "Right or wrong..."  Indeed I would argue, (and I think it's the opinion of most who've posted here) that it is WRONG.  Glad we can agree that, "... some take it too far."  Can we also agree that they should be punished when they do?
 

The other option is every cop be alone on the street.

This I disagree with very much.  It is not an all or nothing question.  Beating a man to death, or covering up evidence for the shootings in New Orleans, or covering up evidence of an out of control DEA agent, or whatever, is not helping police unity.  They work for the people, to enforce the law.  They are NOT above the law, despite what they would like you to believe.

[lakota]

So...having a long beard and long hair is probable cause to inflict a beating??  My father was the kindest man I have ever known. He was a vietnam vet and voluntarily did two tours there. He had a bushy long beard and longish hair almost the entire time I knew him. I never knew him to be a trouble maker despite the length of his beard, I too have been guilty on occasion of having an out of control beard. Maybe an LEO should come and beat me to death.
 
I dont know the whole story and neither do you but I do know that the length of his beard is quite IRRELAVENT!

[Dee]

There ya go again duk, EXPANDING THE THREAD, when you don't want others to. This is about ONE INCIDENT, and your rakin in ALL COPS to be outlaws.

[dukkillr]

There ya go again duk, EXPANDING THE THREAD, when you don't want others to. This is about ONE INCIDENT, and your rakin in ALL COPS to be outlaws.

I was responding to the post above mine?  Indeed I even quoted it?  Can we assume you're also concerned about Shootall's post but you just forgot to mention it?  We both know what you're doing.  Still, if you would like to discuss moderating please send me a PM. 

[Dee]

There ya go again duk, EXPANDING THE THREAD, when you don't want others to. This is about ONE INCIDENT, and your rakin in ALL COPS to be outlaws.

We both know what you're doing. 
quote]
 

Which is?

[45-70.gov]

on  several  occasions
i have had  cops[2 in different departments] tell me about beating some one in custody
i am  not even a cop and they shared their stories with  me
those 3 indivituals  that were beaten.....were  people i didn't like any way
but it makes me  wonder  how rampent  this  is 
and people are AFRAID TO COME FOWARD


personally  i hope the dad fades into abscurity
then settles it in  5 years........the  old sss refered to on other threads

[lakota]

Too bad the intent to keep him alive belonged to a trauma team

[SHOOTALL]

Dee stated the truth in many cases , it goes back to the days of throw down guns and such. Right or wrong in many cases when a group of men work a dangerous job or area they understand what the others are up aginst and protect them. Do some take it to far , sure they do.

You'll get no argument from me.  No question this is happening, "Right or wrong..."  Indeed I would argue, (and I think it's the opinion of most who've posted here) that it is WRONG.  Glad we can agree that, "... some take it too far."  Can we also agree that they should be punished when they do?
 

The other option is every cop be alone on the street.

This I disagree with very much.  It is not an all or nothing question.  Beating a man to death, or covering up evidence for the shootings in New Orleans, or covering up evidence of an out of control DEA agent, or whatever, is not helping police unity.  They work for the people, to enforce the law.  They are NOT above the law, despite what they would like you to believe.

Yes they work for the people but in many places the people don't back them and often hinder or disrupt their work. When police officers can't trust each other to look out for each other things are bad. I suggest you see what I say in the wrong light. Say two policemen show up to a crime . One is seeing things the other can't . I don't think they should cover up crimes but honest mistakes maybe in areas where they will be destoryed to be PC or further some "offical"career .

[SHOOTALL]

That would be fine in a perfect world.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Cabin4:
On another note, just remember, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty and you are guilty until proven innocent.

To bad the cops didn't know about innocent until proven guilty. The guy had schizophrenia. If there had been proper funding of treatment available this probably would not have happened but oh! I forgot we have no money for treatment, just for SWAT teams.
GuzziJohn

[yellowtail3]

Dee stated the truth in many cases , it goes back to the days of throw down guns and such.

Sadly those days have not disappeared - or have they?

Right or wrong in many cases when a group of men work a dangerous job or area they understand what the others are up aginst and protect them.

Nothing wrong with protecting each other. SOMETHING VERY WRONG WITH VIOLATING CITIZENS' RIGHTS, WITH BEATING THEM, AND WITH COVERING UP CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF FELLOW POLICEMEN - wouldn't you agree?

This is about ONE INCIDENT, and your rakin in ALL COPS to be outlaws.

I'm not a fan of the broad brush, even if I've employed it. It's my thread, though, and it's about this one incident specifically, and LEO abuse/impunity in general.
Dee, I'd be curious to hear you view, based on what you know about this case. Here is the question: should the policemen who beat Kelly to death be held to the same standard, as a citizen - or a gang of citizens? - who beat someone to death?

[Dee]

As I said in my first post: The cops may be guilty as hell. All the evidence isn't in yet. No one has gotten away with anything yet. How much clearer could that stance possibly be? How would you like being convicted before you were tried? That's what's happening here.[/font][/size]
Now with that said, I will vacate this forum. No good will come from my repeating myself, and everyone can continue with their lynching, BEFORE the trial.

[yellowtail3]

As I said in my first post: The cops may be guilty as hell. All the evidence isn't in yet. No one has gotten away with anything yet. How much clearer could that stance possibly be? How would you like being convicted before you were tried? That's what's happening here.
Now with that said, I will vacate this forum. No good will come from my repeating myself, and everyone can continue with their lynching, BEFORE the trial.

Well, can't have a trial without charges. You can be sure that had I beaten someone to death, I'd be in custody, and charged with a crime. The police who allegedly did this, are free, being paid, and supported by the DA. They're also being helped by their leadership, who allowed them to review videos before writing reports, in order to get their stories straight, or so it appears.
It stinks.

As I said: The cops may be guilty as hell. But then again, nobody hopped the LAWYER PROSECUTOR that's yellin NO INTENT!

I did, Dee.

I think I'll wait and see what shakes out, rather than judge some guys that were doin what know one else had the nerve to do.

Takes nerve, does it, for six armed men with the power of the state behind them & expectation of impunity (immunity?) to beat a man to death? Nerve? Naw; what takes nerve, is for citizens to start shooting back.
I agree - let's see the investigation. Problem is... it's being conducted by the Brothers in Blue. You prob won't like hearing that, but there you go.

[Dee]

Well I gave you what you needed, and you did what you do. So there ya go.

[yellowtail3]

A couple weeks old.


The victim's father is a former police officer.

Not a valid youtube URL[/url]

[blind ear]

A whole other thread but the state and federal mental health system is something that all parties involved here could be somewhat of a victim of. The revolving door. No excuses for killing someone. ear