I need to vent.

[lakota]

It seems as if all of m friends are having babies this summer. While I am happy for them I also must admit that I feel more than a little jealous and bitter also. My wife and I have been married for 10 years. Its probably unlikely that we will ever be able to have a child of our own. I also get sick of people telling us to adopt. "God wants you to adopt!" Thus far god has failed to provide me with a spare 10-20K to pay for lawyers so adoption is probably out of the question as well. In my job I routinely see what I refer to as "baby machines" pop out kid after kid after kid and then mistreat and abuse those kids and it makes me sick to my stomach.I know it sounds selfish but why cant we have a child? People act all horrified when they find out that I was once a devout christian but now consider myself more or less atheist. They always want to know what happened in my life-well here you go it would be this situation and 2 other situations that I will not go into here that has brought me to this point.

[XD40SC]

I've been there. It stinks that those who really want children, sometimes can't , and those who don't want or take care of their children pop them out like rabbits. We were fortunate to adopt before the price went out the roof- over 30 years ago. I have the problem with the price of adoption also. Your doing the child a favor. The cost should be minimal. This is yet another place where certain  people make a healthy profit at the expense of good people.

[Old Fart]

While I have no real insight into how you got where you are.....
 
I had a friend who he and his wife were unable to adopt or have kids of thier own, when they decided they were both late in life.
He took a different path. He went to work in education where he could be a positive role model for many kids.
Most of whom had no real parents other than by birth rites.
He found it quite enjoyable and fulfilling help all those kids.
Most come back to see him on a regular basis.
I've seen them and they look at him like he was the only guy who ever cared.
 
So am I saying get a job in education?  No.
But you could maybe volunteer to help with youth activities.
Just something to grind on.

[Shu]

Lakota,
I don't see a problem with your venting. I don't see a problem with your need to take a break and re evaluate. I can only guess as to the heart ache you are suffering. Don't let things beat you down. Hang in there, things will get better.
 

[30-30man]

I will probably get thrown under the bus for this one, but here goes.  The problem may lie in you trying to do it all yourself.  I don't judge you for giving up on God; I just don't understand it.  How can anyone walk outside and look at the beauty of our world, and believe all this just happened?  There are many things wrong with this world, but God did tell us He cursed it, for man broke the sacred bond in the Garden of Eden. I was just like you; I thought God was a fairytale.  I wanted scientific evidence.  It hit me one day like a freight train when I was least expecting it.
 
 I guess it hit me in my early twenties.  My wife and I were on a trip to Indiana when we stopped at a little town in Bardstown, Kentucky.  On the side of the road, there was a ditch where all kinds of people were digging.  We had time and stopped just because we were nosey.  What they were digging were fossilized seashells and reminants of fish.  It hit me that day, that the flood was real and God revealed Himself to me that day.  There was my scientific evidence....Then came the real shocker that is still hard to tell people because it is so unbelievable.
 
  My father-in-law had recently died of a heart attack while working on a neighbors boat.  My wife and I were on the way to visit some relatives of hers one summer.
Anyway to make a long story short....I checked in to the motel in Rockville and the lady at the counter noticed my wife's name.  It took her a while to write her name correctly after we got married.  She handed my wife a small box with a Bible in it.  The bible had belonged to her father when both her parents were young.  The bible was dated August 24, 1937 with his name in it.  Her father passed away on August 24, 1986 and the day we arrived at the motel was August 24th, 1989. The bible had been at this motel for who knows how long. I guess maybe 45+ years... Her dad had left this bible at the motel. When her dad got married to her mother they were so poor they had to live with their parents.  We guessed they spent the night at this motel sometime in their marriage to be marital....Anyway it was a laugh, but I think it was more than that. God was sending a message.  It still makes the hairs stand up on my neck to this day. Her mother can't remember the bible, but the signature was his.  We left it with her.  You might want to do some searching yourself and rethink this thing. We can do a lot ourselves, but then there are situations that we can't.  Sometimes we all need Devine intervention.
 

[m-g Willy]

I feel more than a little jealous and bitter also. ...... People act all horrified when they find out that I was once a devout christian but now consider myself more or less atheist. .

 
I don't mean to judge you , but you did make the post.
I don't really believe you were a "devout christian"
If you were , you wouldn't have lost faith and become the bitter and jealous person you seem to be now.
Satan must be rolling with laughter knowing he has claimed you and maybe even your wife also .
Now that you turned from GOD how's your life going?
Maybe you should seek GOD out and be thankful for what you "DO" have.
A wife, maybe your health? A home?
Think what you have that others may only dream about having.
Lots of homeless, sick people alone would probaly trade places with you in a heart beat.
QUIT BLAMING AND START THANKING!
I hope you heed my advice.
Or just tell me to shut my mouth and go on living your life like you have been.
There will be no hard feelings from me.
I hope and pray for the best for you and your wife.
 
 

[The Hermit]

Dear Mr. Lakota,
Most of us have, at one time or another, questioned our faith and beliefs and why God would allow things to happen. Just accept that things happen all the time that we can't always control nor explain them . Often they are a result of things we do.
Sometimes they are not. I won't go into detail but most who know me, know I lost my Donna to cancer in 2005.
After we had raised our own children we felt a "loss", hard to explain. So we took in foster boys, some homeless, some abused etc, 17 in all.
We loved them like they were our own flesh and blood. We made a big difference in most of them. They are all gone now except one, who still lives with me. I'm 76.
Tomorrow, draw a line in the sand and make it your new beginning. You can't change the past, but you sure can set a posittive direction in the future. Oh, and you may want to consider foster kids. They can be a pain, but it can be the best thing that ever happened to you and your spouse. Best of luck.
 
 
The Hermit

[powderman]

WOW, there are some great posts here Lakota. Nothing wrong with you venting, it's good to clear the air once in a while. I'm going to start praying daily for you and your wife that you may have a child. It's sickening to see some females who are simply breeders that don't love their kids, only the welfare check, when good folks like you do without.
Theres no reason for the costs involved in adoptions, lawyers make the rules for themselves to make more money, they are the root problem with adoptions in America. No reason for them to take years, except to keep that money rolling in. Sad, and a travesty. Children and families suffer, lawyers get rich. POWDERMAN. 

[manatee1947]

The book that applies here is Ecclesiastes. $%#@ happens, it happens without respect to person, place, wealth etc etc. The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong .......... you got the short end of the stick. There is no reason you should be happy about it. It did not have to happen for a reason, it will not make you a better person, and you may just have to live with it. I understand Christians need to believe, because it does indeed work for them, it gives them a world view that allows them to deal with reality by adaptation of what they experience to a predictable framework they can handle. They may be right, I have seen nothing to disprove it. I also see nothing that substantiates it. It is bitter to know that no help will be forth coming, that justice does not  prevail, and that things will in fact NOT all work out in the end. Most people find it easier to live if they believe there is some external factor that will intervene, whether it is the 70 some virgins that await the devout Muslim, Jesus walking in the garden with you, or being reincarnated and getting a "do over" until you get it right. Just saying life is a female dog and then you die is not a real inspiring prospect. Your options are to get over it, move on, and make the best of a bad situation, OR , dwell on it until it festers up and effects those areas of your life that are good and satisfying, and ruins them also. If Jesus helps you through it, that is great, if not, George Carlin had a pretty good idea...... if your needs are not being met, get fewer needs. I hope time makes things easier for you.   

[burntmuch]

Kinda the same story here. The wife & I couldnt get pregnant. The wife went thru a couple surguries to improve our chances Spent about 5 grand on those. Didnt work. Out of the blue the chance to adopt twins came up. I got off easy on that one.about 15 grand. Two for one sale. Sold a boat, sold a camper sold a couple guns. ate beans & rice for quite awhile. Got those loans paid off. Their 10 years old now. I had about 6 mths where I had money in the bank, A retirement fund. Making decent money. Out of the blue again had the opertunity to adopt another baby from California. What a nightmare. That cost me 30 grand. Hes 4 years old now. Im 42 years old . Ive got 84 bucks in my checking account. Thats about it. My 3 kids are all healthy & happy. The cost of adoption is insane. But it is what it is. I probably would of spent the money on a bigger boat. Id still be broke. I used to get pissed about the fact that I had to go thru the nightmare of adoptions to have kids, when all my friends had to do was, well you know. I finally relized wow how lucky am I. Fate Gods work Who knows. All you can do is deal with the hand dealt to ya.. Being pissed aint gonna get ya no where.   Good luck to ya.

[Sourdough]

Took 13 years, a lot of fertility testing, Male hormone shots, and one miscarriage before she finally had a baby.  He's 23 now, in college, and a young man to be proud of.   

[XD40SC]

Kinda the same story here. The wife & I couldnt get pregnant. The wife went thru a couple surguries to improve our chances Spent about 5 grand on those. Didnt work. Out of the blue the chance to adopt twins came up. I got off easy on that one.about 15 grand. Two for one sale. Sold a boat, sold a camper sold a couple guns. ate beans & rice for quite awhile. Got those loans paid off. Their 10 years old now. I had about 6 mths where I had money in the bank, A retirement fund. Making decent money. Out of the blue again had the opertunity to adopt another baby from California. What a nightmare. That cost me 30 grand. Hes 4 years old now. Im 42 years old . Ive got 84 bucks in my checking account. Thats about it. My 3 kids are all healthy & happy. The cost of adoption is insane. But it is what it is. I probably would of spent the money on a bigger boat. Id still be broke. I used to get pissed about the fact that I had to go thru the nightmare of adoptions to have kids, when all my friends had to do was, well you know. I finally relized wow how lucky am I. Fate Gods work Who knows. All you can do is deal with the hand dealt to ya.. Being pissed aint gonna get ya no where.   Good luck to ya.

WOW- 30 thousand to adopt a child. That's totally insane. I have adopted 2 children and know exactly what is involved.  I would like someone to justify why it costs that much to adopt . inconceivable

[ironglow]

Lakota; 
  It's OK to vent..much healthier than trying to "bottle it up" !  Just two days ago, I had the first look at my new-born, first gg child..I sure hope you can do that some day..and you may.
  When somebody says "God means for you to have a child".. they are wrong, because they cannot know God's mind in this personal matter.  Still, don't try to take it out on Jesus, because in that case you would only be taking it out on yourselves.
   Do you want to fill that "empty spot" ?  How about getting involved with a loving church..then eventually you and your wife take on a toddlers or kindergarden Sunday School class ?  Hannah got her son (Samuel) after many years of prayer, but she didn't lose faith, even though the local preacher (Eli) had some kids who were rats !
   
   The high cost of adoption is a disgrace.  No wonder some lawyers in the adoption business don't mind abortion..they couldn't make near so much if there were a "surplus" flooding the market !  This sad situation is certain people, taking advantage of other people's heartaches.
    Keep your social network open, you may hear through these networks, about a pregnant youngster who has need to place her baby.  Church is a good sort of social network for this, since pregnant singles often appeal to a church's help and there is no way a real church would recommend adoption to an atheist, since that would be cheating the child. .
   If you do reunite with Christians, don't do it "for a baby" however.  Do it for the good of your soul and respect/love for God, and if you are sincere the blessings may well flow.  Having a whole church body praying for your fulfilment, cannot hurt either !
  If your state is backward and doesn't allow direct adoptions..perhaps it is worth a move.

[billy_56081]

LAWYERS! They are one of the greatest parasites upon our society. They produce absolutly nothing and are paid a huge amount for this nothing they produce. A good portion of out politicians are lawyers, they write the laws so they and their own parasitic kind can exploit them.

[Lost Farmboy]

  Lakota I don't need to vent, but I am going to anyway.


My wife and I are childless. We went to see an adoption lawyer. After 10 minutes of listening to her brag about how good she was we handed her the $200 check for the 1 hour consulting fee. That first 10 minutes was part of our hour. Then she proceeded to tell us how hard it was going to be to get through the adopting maze and how much it would cost us to have her to guide us through the hoops. We walked out and decided to cut our losses at $200 dollars.


There is something very wrong with this. Wicked people are taking extreme advantage of those in life and death situations here in America. We murder millions of unborn babies each year, because no one wants them, Then charge people who do a years or more than a years wages for the privilege of adapting one.


Then there is the cost of having a healthy baby the natural way. The cost are astronomical. I can understand the cost going up when things go wrong. But when everything is normal it shouldn't cost 3 arms and 2 legs. Maybe that's part of why the cost of adoption are so high. They want you to reimburse the state if they paid the cost of birth or not.


I sold life and health insurance for ten years. The thousands of horror stories about health and insurance was more than I could stand. Then in early 2008 I could see Obama would win the election and destroy my career anyway. So I got a job in electronics.


Then there is death. Doesn't the family suffer enough without having to pay $10,000 or more to bury the remains? I and a few others from our church worked with refuges from SE Asia for years. A father and mother working for minimum wage would have to bury a child. One of the ladies at the church was able to negotiate a $2,000 dollar fee for some of these extreme cases.


Then one of the local funeral home owners, who was also a doctor call the others and threatened them with only God knows what. A legal migrant working for minimum wage lost 2 children in a car accident. The poor man was forced to pay $20,000 dollars for the funeral. Fortunately Uncle Sam put the Dr/funeral home owner away for $4,000,000 worth the medicare fraud.

[magooch]

I had two kids the ordinary way.  It's over rated.  I think if I had to do it all over, I'd get clipped after the first one.

[powderman]

The high cost of adoption is a disgrace.  No wonder some lawyers in the adoption business don't mind abortion..they couldn't make near so much if there were a "surplus" flooding the market !  This sad situation is certain people, taking advantage of other people's heartaches.

 
 
Lots of good posts here, it was tough deciding which to quote. You have to  realize that all the hoops and dead ends to adopt in America are written by and for lawyers. Are lawyers grossly overpaid?? You bet they are. People with lifetime disabilites who are forced to sue are left with on 2/3 of a settlement, if they are lucky, the lawyers gets the rest for sitting on his butt making a few phone calls and filing papers, then MAYBE going to court. For all the great wonders God does, he only asks 10 %.
Adoptions should be quick and easy for good people. Background check, talk to neighbors, check home, etc, absolutely NO REASON to involve a lawyer. LAKOTA. You and your wife are now on MY WIFES prayer list too.  POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

Lost;
  Where do you live that funerals cost $10,000 ?  I am a cemetery administrator and my experience is somewhat different. Yes, you can pay $10,000 if you wish but it can be half that also.
  I am about to install a cremation garden, since cremation is coming on strong now.  I have already instructed my groundsman that I have such a thing planned.
  There will be burial sites for cremains as well as a "scattering garden". Burial sites for cremains will be half the size of a regular plot 5X5 instead of 5X10.  The lot will cost $350 instead of $550, cremation maybe $400, small stone, just like all the rest, perhaps $200.. urn for ashes..$250..  That's $ 1200.  Scattering would be much less !
  Much of the charges for lots, etc are not so much for the land, as it is for the "perpetual care" promised.
   Burial is $325, footer for stone perhaps $250..maybe total $1775 total..That's at today's prices..then it depends on some for the funeral director beyond the price of the urn,  and you can't expect him to work for free. 
  In preparation for such an event, it wouldn't hurt to get to know your cemetery administrator..probably much easier to do in a small town.  He can help you a lot..and he normally doesn't have a "dog in the fight"...he doesn't make a dime from it. 
   To start making "deals" with certain funeral operators, is terrible ethics and inexcusable (IMO).
 
   Sorry about the derail, but I felt moved by Lostfarmboy's post.
 
  Back to adoption..Lakota, try to broaden your social network.  This will bring you in contact with the needy and often opportunities can crop up.
  As Hermit said..there is the 'foster children' route.  Yes; there are troubled kids in that system, but they need love and understanding also...plus there are some real gems there too.  So often, I have seen people take in a foster child and show them the love they need..then the couple becomes pregnant !  It was almost as if the Lord were waiting for them to demonstrate their faith & love first..
 

[JBlk]

Don't give up the ship yet.My brother and his wife had the same problem, and his wife went to many doctors over the years.When he reached the ripe old age of thirtynine the blessed even became a reality.That little girl is now twentyone and he is happy as a clam.Mom always said that the Lord works in strange any mysterious ways, and my life experiences have proven that to me.

[XD40SC]

Did you think about being a foster parent. Sometimes you can adopt the foster child.

[45-70.gov]

Re: I need to vent.


home  wants a child
child wants a home
government regulations  in the way


why can't government just leave us alone
yet people keep voting for bigger government


i hate to think about life if i didn't have  kids
hang in there and keep trying...
have you seeked medical attention?
with the right drugs....you might have the next  octo-mom on your hands
[hope that brought you a smile]

[Avyctes]

My wife and I would love to adopt if we could afford it just to help a needy child.  We have no problems making them, but as Lakota said, they make it financially almost impossible unless you're Angelina Jolie.  We have neighbors who adopted a boy/girl from Russia, cost them over a quarter million USD. 

Since you can't afford to adopt right now, and can't have children, I'd really consider the advice of being a foster parent.  My FFL buddy I use just got settled into being a foster parent, has a beautiful 4 yo boy.  Being a FFL he had to really jump through some hoops because of the firearms and ammunition.  But he has gotten through all of that.  He had to buy additional safes to lock up his ammunition separately from his firearms - and he can never take the boy shooting as the law prohibits the boy being near or firing a firearm.

Anyway, I hope you get the chance to become a parent, one way or another.  It's very rewarding.

[Lost Farmboy]

   To start making "deals" with certain funeral operators, is terrible ethics and inexcusable (IMO).
 
 

 
Ironglow we made deals for the poorest of the refugees we served with who ever we could.


The ringleader went to prison for $4,000,000 in medicare fraud. The church has a closet full of urns. Some of these former Buddhist feel more comfortable with the ashes of there loved ones in the church. That makes me and others feel good too. When the ringleader went to prison the prices dropped. But nothing as low as you are talking about. I see you as part of the solution. Thank you.


I taught a Cambodian Bible class for two years before they invited me to watch the Killing Fields movie with them. The 2 hour film took more that 10 hours, because they kept stopping it to tell me what happened to their families, friends and relatives. I don't think you can imagine the horrors.


I have been asked to adopt children from this community, but the cost was too much. I wish I could.

[ironglow]

  Lost;
   Please don't understand me..there is nothing wrong with the consumer or his/her helper making a deal with the funeral director !  What I was referring to was for a cemetery administrator "making a  deal" with a given funeral director or contractor..to push business their way, thus costing the customer even more !
  It is easy..but terribly rotten, to take advantage of anyone in their grief !  God is not mocked.."payday someday".
 
  Another way to save a bit is to ask the administrator if there are any unused graves up for sale.  Often a family has moved away and a family gravesit..or 2, or 3 are available.  I cannot speak for others but in my state, to prevent speculators from buying up lots, the law says a grave can only be sold for what it cost originally. In my cemetery, our graves 5'X10" are $550.
  If I can locate one originally sold for instance in 1957..it sells for $150.  Since I am in a rural area and know most everybody, I try to keep such possibles in mind for people I KNOW don't have much $$.
     
  Stay with that Cambodian community, never can tell when a teenager among them may have gone wrong and needs help. Children ALL need love, no matter the color or ethnicity..
    I don't know your church experience and won't comment upon it..but a real "born-again" inspired, Bible-honoring, local church rarely losees one of it's own back to the world.   They may attend another local church ..but won't desert the Lord..an edifying experience...

[gstewart44]

Lakota,
I have shared your pain and frustration many years ago.   when I was first married my wife and I went through the whole roller coaster of emotions for ten years of not conceiving,  then fertiilty shots, monitoring her cycle,  three pregnancies all ending with miscarriage then finally going through adoption with our local church organization.   the church did not have exorbitant fees for adoption however there was a "wait list".   After three years of waiting we were refunded our monies and told there were no children to be adopted through their venue.   I too questioned my faith at that moment.    I channeled my anger and pain and put that energy into volunteering with organizations that help others, be it healthcare or sports.     I have been told I made a great impact on those around me and it has stregnthened my faith in God. 
 
I became happy with this new role in life that I trusted God to have for me.      Then after 18 years my wife suddenly conceived and was able to deliver a healthy girl.    For me it was proof that God had a plan for us and I had to rely on my faith and not forsake Him.    He has a plan for all of us.    I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.   
 

[ironglow]

  For all here;
  Read GStewart's post above..  As I posted earlier, I have seen people remain faithful..waited and finally adopted children..then suddenly conceived on their own...
  Buit was it really "on their own" ? Do you think God may have been involved ?

[Conan The Librarian]

I can understand the jealousy and bitterness. I'm sorry.
 
My nephew and his wife have not been able to have kids either and they did adopt. Holy cow! I could not believe the hassles they had to go through to do it. They eventually adoped a kid from Korea. He's a good solid professional in the computing business and she has a PhD in social work and does a lot with troubled kids. You'd figure they'd be able to find an American kid to adopt. There are plenty of them that are eligible.
 
I asked why they didn't try to adopt an American kid. They did look into it, but the costs are so high that it was prohibitive. I think it was a lot more than the 10 to 20k you cited.
 
It makes no sense. It's pretty easy to qualify parents as being either a good or bad risk for adoption. And in almost all cases, a reasonably well qualified set of adopting parents is a better option that what the kid had before.
 
A guy at work just adopted a Chinese baby with a birth defect. That was a big hassle too. Among other hoops they had to jump through was flying to China for three weeks, on short notice. They didn't give them a firm date until about a week before they had to travel. Just the trip would have been prohibitively expensive for most people. This is another case where you've got a well qualified family that should find it easy to adopt here in the US.
 
I'm venting a little too.
 
By the way, and I'm just joking around a bit now, I've got a 19 and 17 year old now and they are just massively irritating now. I know they'll grow out if it, but everything you hear about teenagers being a hassle (especially girls) is true. Some days I wish I could give them away.

[XD40SC]

Unfortunately, adoption for certain countries is a way of making money. Probable same here in US. I'd like to know why the legal fees are so high if adoption is done in US. Maybe those in the legal field can explain it to us??

[powderman]

Unfortunately, adoption for certain countries is a way of making money. Probable same here in US. I'd like to know why the legal fees are so high if adoption is done in US. Maybe those in the legal field can explain it to us??

 
Those in the legal field created this quagmire of unnecessary red tape, delays, and ridiculous and unnecessary rules. For the children?? NOPE, for the money. POWDERMAN. 

[XD40SC]

Unfortunately, adoption for certain countries is a way of making money. Probable same here in US. I'd like to know why the legal fees are so high if adoption is done in US. Maybe those in the legal field can explain it to us??

 
Those in the legal field created this quagmire of unnecessary red tape, delays, and ridiculous and unnecessary rules. For the children?? NOPE, for the money. POWDERMAN. 

In all fairness; I'd still like to hear what the experts here have to say. This is there chance to defend/explain this topic and speak up.