Author Topic: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?  (Read 1346 times)

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Offline us920669

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Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« on: August 27, 2011, 11:51:03 AM »
We have all probably heard the story about the Secret Servicemen swilling booze in an after-hours joint mere hours before the Kennedy Assassination.  Retired Agent Jerry Blaine wrote a book called The Kennedy Detail which discusses this.  He was in Dallas but not at the Cellar Club, although men who assisted with the book were there, so in the interest of reporting information in the public domain, I will offer it.  While drinking on duty was strictly forbidden, there was no real policy governing off-duty behavior.  Supervisors made sure men were physically ans mentally fit.  Presidential protection was the elite Secret Service posting, and chronic screwups didn't last long.


Eight agents were involved with the Cellar Club Incident.  Five had reported for duty at 8:00 AM on Nov. 21 and didn't knock off till midnight, two consecutive eight hour shifts, while three started at 4:00 PM.  None had gotten a decent dinner.  Journalist Merriman Smith, dean of the Washington press corps and a great friend of JFK's, invited them to join him at the Dallas Press Club, where a buffet table was said to await.  By the time the agent arrived the buffet had closed and they consumed some alcohol and made do with peanuts and pretzels.  Another pressman informed the agents that the Cellar Club was still open and possibly offered sandwiches.  The establishment feature waitresses running around in their underwear but no sandwiches and technically did not serve alcohol, although customers sometimes supplied their own.  By Jerry's account they had some fruit juice and once again raided the peanut bowl.  Some people have alleged that they fortified their fruit juice with grain alcohol, although that would have meant that they brought their own, unless someone offered to share.  Most of the agents soon returned to the hotel, although one, the youngest man on the detail and the only one who was single, stayed until 5:00 AM chatting with a Fort Worth police officer and an attractive female reporter.  None of the men were drivers and none were on duty until noon of the 22nd.  One may make of this what one will.


As for the assassination, the agents "wish" people would accept the findings of the Warren Commission, but the book presents certain facts that undermine it.  Bullet fragments were seen in the passenger compartment, including one lodged in the "windshield" (probably the glass privacy screen behind the front seat, although this is not specified).  Agent Clint Hill, who ran to the car and shielded the first couple with his body, reported a "fist-sized hole in the back of his (Kennedy's) head".  These points are crucial for anyone trying to reconstruct the shooting, something that has never been done in a satisfactory manner.  The book also mentioned something I had never heard before.  There was some confusion as the motorcade formed up because both of the first lady's bodyguards were assigned to the follow-up car, the vintage Cadillac they called "halfback".  This was highly irregular because normally one would have been in the car and the other waiting at the destination, the Dallas Trade Mart.  I do not know if this is significant, but it was unusual.  Incidentally, the agent who stayed the latest at the Cellar Club, the youngest one on the detail, was apparently the first to detect gunshots from behind, and is clearly seen in photographs turned around and looking toward the Book Depository.   
 

Offline us920669

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 11:39:10 AM »
Holy cow, there is a discrepancy in this account.  Obviously, if the last man standing at the Cellar Club was the first to hear the shots, he was in the motorcade and went on duty at 8:00 AM.  It's confusing because of the shifts and Jerry doesn't make it too clear, but only the men who worked back to back shifts on the 21st got to start at noon on the 22nd.  The 8:00 shift men left the club early, except for the young man, whose name was Landis.  He thought he would start at noon on the 22nd because he was the second man on the first lady's detail, and under the normal procedure he would have started his day at the Trade Mart.   

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 12:17:02 PM »
I dunno if they were or weren't and don't care really.

I do however feel certain the killing shot came from the front not the back. Watching the Zapruder film it is clear from the head being pushed backward and the spray coming out the back that the shot came from in front. Jackie was trying to get away over the rear of the car which to me also indicates she thought the danger was from the front.

I obviously don't know why he was killed or why but I've seen the rifle that supposedly used and been in the building the shot supposedly came from. I do NOT believe that rifle from that building is what did the job. I have my thoughts on the matter and believe the real reason was his differences of opinion with the military during the Cuban missile crisis. Just my theory with no proof.


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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 12:31:55 PM »
The car was trevelling forward at the time, which means the rush of air is front to back. That can account for the blood splatter going back. As far as the head jerking back, this could be from natural reflex.
 
I always thought JFK was shot from the front as well. Untill I saw a recent analysis of all this on some show. It was pretty darn interesting. I changed my mind then.
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Offline GatCat

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 09:18:08 PM »
Cabin4;
Glad to read that you were able to change your mind  about the shooting after you were enlightened by that show. The presentation of science, direct evidence, etc. is overwhelming. and to my mind, the only conclusion that can be reached is that LHO was the sole shooter. Also, read the Postom book, ( Case Closed ). I think he was interviewed in that show you mentioned. When independant researchers all reach the same conclusion ( Mark Furhman, VInce Bugliosi, etc ), it is pretty conclusive, indeed.
I guess that it is simply human nature to NOT want to believe that a simple looser, with sub-standard equipment, can do such a thing...surely "they" must be behind it.
I did not read the original post above about the Secret Service, but really, before a president even arrives,many, many agents do such mundane things like stand watch over vehicles, inspect welds on man-hole covers, do routine checks, etc, etc., is it really surprising that some go out and have some "down time" after their duty is done. Mark

Offline Swampman

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 03:11:12 AM »
I guess my question would be ....who cares.  One less democrat.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline us920669

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 05:06:38 AM »
He was the last of the good democrats, and his death brought in one of the worst of the bad ones.


LHO looks good as a suspect only by ignoring lots of evidence.  The so-called magic bullet or pristine bullet simply did not pass through two people and shatter the wrist of a man the size of Connally.  Some fragments were removed from his body and others were buried with him.  At this point we will never really know what happened, but there are serious problems with the official story.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 06:03:21 AM »
Who cares about either story?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Swampman

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2011, 06:51:25 AM »
If it doesn't effect me personally, it doesn't matter.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2011, 08:07:51 AM »
If it doesn't effect me personally, it doesn't matter.

You have to wonder........
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2011, 12:21:58 PM »
If it doesn't effect me personally, it doesn't matter.

Then why are you posting on this forum about it? Just trying to get someone to jump on you so you can report them again? If you have zero interest in a topic don't post to it.


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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2011, 01:06:00 PM »
It is interesting stuff and I admit there is much to review/debate on this still. I always use to think there was more than one shooter. I'm pretty much convinced from a technical standpoint that there could have only been 1 shooter based on the latest info. But there is so many other aspects to the JFK assasination that I still wonder if it was LHO all by himself in every aspect of it. That part I'm not completly settled on.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
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Offline us920669

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Re: Were Secret Servicemen Drinking In Dallas?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 03:26:41 AM »
It's true, I didn't like the video, but thanks for sharing it.  I know I should watch the whole thing before knocking it, but what I saw seemed to contain so much obviously useless information that it was just a waste of time.


Agent Blaine said they couldn't enforce the open window policy very well because JFK covered so much ground.  I think they knew it was pointless since the old double hung windows could be opened in about half a second.  He says many times that they were most worried about someone up close with a handgun.  As I try to think back, all presidential assassinations and attempts up until then were with a handgun, and all attempts since then too.  I had never heard anyone suggest that Dealey Plaza was cleared of witnesses.  The crowds were probably thinner because there were fewer buildings for people to come out of.  It has been reported in several sources that Kennedy ordered the agents off the rear bumper because he wanted people to be able to see him.  Jerry says the agents didn't like that, and a famous photo shows Agent Hill on the bumper crouched down around the taillight.  The agents also didn't like the privacy screen behind the front seat in the limo, since it interfered with communications between the front and rear seats.


I still think a very sharp three-gun team did the deed.  They were supposed to catch Castro as he rode back from his beach house in an open jeep, but certain mafia godfathers got inside the plot and turned it on Kennedy, whose eager beaver brother was threatening their very existence.  The mafia had already been working with the government on Cuban matters, and they were able to make use of government assets and infrastructure.  I probably made a mistake earlier by trying to give too much information without enough details, but it's very complicated and it's painful for me to spend too much time at the keyboard.  At this point we will never really know, and that's the real outrage.  Some low-life who gets killed in a bar rates a much better investigation than the president got.