Author Topic: EDIT - Rifled 410 slug gun #3 (Read 3429 times)

bikerbeans · « **on:** August 29, 2011, 10:36:17 AM »

EDITED - I have posted on the 410 slug gun before but I think I should elaborate a bit. All three of these guns have rechambered 44 cal rifle barrels mated to SB2 receivers. The bullet in the rounds are sized @ .430" and there is extensive modification required to a standard brass/plastic 410 hull in order to fit the round into the chamber. Under no circumstances should some one use anything but a factory round or powder manufacturer data for a slug load in a standard 410 bore shotgun.

My hunting partner and I will both be going after whitetail this fall with our rifled 410 slug guns. The 410s shoot well and since the ammo is handloaded it is a lot cheaper than the 12 ga. sabots at Wallyworld. Also, they do not beat up on old shoulders like the 12 gauges.

I hunt in bow season on a friends farm and he wanted one of these 410s for his grandson. I scavanged the parts from the GBO classifieds and a local gun shop and put the gun together. I then started working on a reduced load for the grand kid. Started using a slower powder with good results, get 1.5 to 2 inch 100 yard groups with a 310 LWNGC slug.

Today I decided to go with a max load in this gun with the new powder & the 310 grain slug. I only had five rounds and I used the first two to make scope adjustments and try and get the gun a little closer to the bullseye. The last three shots, with a warm barrel, came in at 5/8" @ 100 yards, this is by far the best 410 group I have ever shot. Going back to the club later this week with more of this load to verify it is repeatable. Oh, in order to keep this gun as cheap as possible it is sporting a 4x Norinco scope that I bought new for about $30 and still has a temporary pivot shim because I haven't decided which receiver (have now) to keep on the gun.

BB

tacklebury · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2011, 04:21:46 PM »

Very nice.

Sounds like a fun little slugger. Might be it tightened up because you got enough obturation of the bullet with the heavier load. Still, Even the first group at the top was good enough for a kid to take a deer. Thanks for sharing.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2011, 02:25:41 PM »

So BB this is a 44 that was rechambered? That is some fine shooting with the 410 . Wasn't there a old cartridge cal that was called a 44/410 ? Maybe in a Shikari model.Kurt

bikerbeans · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2011, 04:51:39 PM »

Quote from: PHATINJUN on August 31, 2011, 02:25:41 PM

So BB this is a 44 that was rechambered? That is some fine shooting with the 410 . Wasn't there a old cartridge cal that was called a 44/410 ? Maybe in a Shikari model.Kurt

Kurt,

Thanks on the group. At the range today and it is repeatable if I do my part. Once again I am the weak link in most equations.

It is kinda cool to have a 410 that can reliabily plink a deer a 200 yards.

So far i have only rechambered 444Ms because the folks around here put a hefty price tag on the 44 Mag barrels.

I think the slower twist of the 44Mag would work as well, but don't want to pay the extra fifty bucks to find out.

I have seen a few of the older H&Rs on gunbroker for sale that are marked as 44/410 cal. These are smoothbore guns and not rifled. I don't know if folks "back in the day" shot 44 slugs or 44 shotshells out of them. There are also some Mausers out there that are stamped 410 but they are rebored army rifles that are meant to shoot shotshells.

BB

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2011, 07:29:20 AM »

If IL allowed 410's in the shotgun season I'd be peeling Franklins right now to build one. Kurt

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:33:42 AM »

BB with groups like that the 44mag twist is a moot point in my opinion. Did you happen to chrony that load yet or at least what do you think it should be near? I could not even get near that group @50 when I was using the 444's in the 45/410. Kurt

bikerbeans · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2011, 10:15:17 AM »

Kurt,

I haven't run that load through the chrony. I shot the same bullet in a 410 hull that held 10% less H4895 and the velocity was 1625 FPS so the additional 4 grains of powder should put it in the 1700 FPS range. I also shoot these same bullets with I3031 and get mid 1800 FPS, but the best accuracy with the I3031 is 1.5" @ 100 yards. I think I will buy another jug of H4895.

BB

eye shot · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2011, 06:25:37 PM »

BB
Hi, what chamber do you use 2.5" or 3"? Also what length forcing cone if any? You got some nice groups there!
eye shot

bikerbeans · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2011, 02:30:54 AM »

eye shot,

Thanks. Gun has a 2.5" chamber, very short forcing cone/throat. Bullet is loaded tight into the rifling so the throat doesn't mean much.

BB

bikerbeans · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2011, 03:13:56 AM »

My friend's grandson finally got "his" 410 slug gun this past weekend. Due to a divorce/custody fight the young boy was prevented from having Christmas 2010 with his granddad until two days ago. One of his presents was the 410 slug gun and his granddad reports he is one happy camper! The gun was zeroed 1" high @ 100 yards and ready to go for deer season, however, the 20 rounds I included with the gun are already gone.

Looks like I got an excuse to give my wife when I go back to the farm to deliver more slugs (and bow hunt) before the youth deer gun season next month.

BB

JamesIII · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2011, 05:04:41 AM »

BB, you are just having WAAAY too much fun with this project! Giving to the grandkids makes lifetime memories for both of you. JamesIII

eye shot · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:43:15 AM »

Hey BB
Did you guys take any deer with the .444-.410's?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2011, 12:17:42 PM »

eye shot,

Not yet, but we are going out again for the 2 day hunt this weekend. Did get a coyote on opening morning with the 410.

BB

eye shot · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2011, 01:25:40 PM »

Well good luck, I shot my 410/444 first time today. All I could fined was some old 225gr jhp, but the gun worked great. I called Beartooth today about some 355gc I've had ordered for two months-said there on the way. I can't wait to try those big heavy cast. I might get rid of my 12ga slug guns, ha ha.

cpileri · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2011, 01:49:34 PM »

Sir,
can you post a picture of some of the loaded cartridges? or else describe them in loving detail. I hesitate to ask for load data, so i wont.

SOunds like you give hoenigbigbore a run for their money.

I have a personal interest in the 45/410 barrels, loading a loooong 45 colt (45 Extra-Long Colt?) or otherwise known as the 450 Mongo. So your loaded rounds would interest me very much.

Merry Christmas,
C-

bikerbeans · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2011, 03:01:37 PM »

cpileri,

Attached is a very bad photo of 4 loaded rounds. These are 310 grain LWNFPGCs over a compressed load of medium burn rate rifle powder. PLEASE NOTE: This are shot in an SB2 receiver and the barrel is a modified CF rifle barrel. The pressure of this round would not be a good idea in a standard 410 shotgun or the 45/410.

The rounds are loaded approx. .02" long so that the bullet compresses the powder when the gun is closed. This in effect is the "crimp". The hulls have just enough neck tension to retain the bullet if a live round is removed from the chamber. Case OAL is 2.2". Hulls are internally neck turned to accept the .430" bullet.

I have looked at loading a .452" bullet into a 410 brass/plastic hull to launch out of a 45/410 barrel. It is doable but to use a bad pun it is a "stretch". I punted on the idea because of the weaker material of the 45/410 barrel would seriously limit the round. The 450 Mongo would make more since for a longer round in the 45/410 since the brass wall is much thinner than a plastic shot shell. If it will chamber in the 45/410 the Magtech 410 all brass cartridge might be a good candidate for the 450 Mongo as the shotshell should have thinner side walls that the rifle brass, IIRC 444M and a couple of others have been used for the 450 Mongo.

My rounds don't really compare to HBBS since they have to live with limits set by SAAMI. I probably would have bought one of their 410s but they are only made for the Encore platform and the barrel was more $$$$ than a complete Handi rifle. Back "in the day" Hoening made a couple of there 410 slug guns from Handi rifles. I had a chance to buy one but the price got to rich for my taste. Maybe another will surface one day.

BB

cpileri · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2011, 10:15:01 AM »

thanks!
I ended up making my 450's out of blown-out/fireformed 9.3x74R rounds, and after 2-3 firings they all chamber pretty easily; and most extract easily. But i dont load them heavy, although i do use a SB2 frame. I want to stay within SAAMI for the 45LC /410 barrel. While i have used up to 22gr of trail boss, i think 15gr works just as well under a 270gr lead bullet.

I was just curious how you got a larger bullet in the 410 casing.

I tried to tap in a 45LC bullet into a 410 brass magtec case and it, like you said, stretched the casemouth and looked like the ugliest 'wider-at-case-mouth' cartridge. i never even tried to chamber it. It sits around waiting to be salvaged for components.

I have used a 210gr 41-cal slug inside a 410 plastic hull over only 8-ish grains of 2400, which were light and seemed to shoot straight. So i might load these heavier- but these are for an actual 410-bore.

My real interest was in how you managed to keep the pressures down with the bullet touching the rifling. But in a SB2 and 444 marlin barrel, you have much more room to play around.

Many thanks and Merry Christmas
C-

bikerbeans · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2011, 01:05:48 PM »

eyeshot

where are you posting on your 410 slugger?

BB

eye shot · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2011, 02:15:51 PM »

BB I post a little here because more people seem interested. Although I have Handi's this conversion is a CVA. My thinking was try the cheapest gun incase I screwed it up. I was reading a couple years ago about Hoening barrels but have no TC's. Then you proved a .444M conversion was possible. I do post some on the CVA forum. I think this is going to be a great "shotgun" for deer.
eye shot

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:30:18 AM »

Can you run that 45LC bulleted 'swelled' case neck into a seating or sizing die (with the 'guts' pulled out) to shrink it down to chamber mouth size?

geartow · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2012, 03:30:50 PM »

beans can we het some good photos of the loaded rounds?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2012, 02:00:23 PM »

I will try and get some better pics. Me and cameras don't get along very well.