Help with Speer 350 grainers for my 45-70

[Plenty Coups]

I have a box of 350 grain Speers and am having trouble finding load data for them for my BC. I will be using IMR 4198. Anyone with suggestions. My BC will be used for elk hunting. Not sure what the max would be but seems like it would be a smart thing to know. Thinking of starting out around 42 grains but want some velocity to make sure these little pellets open up and do their job! Been shooting factory HSM 400 grain JSP at around 1850 fps. Not heavy kickers but wouldn't shoot them all day from the bench with the steel butt plate either.

[Papa Jack]

I have a box of 350 grain Speers and am having trouble finding load data for them for my BC. I will be using IMR 4198. Anyone with suggestions. My BC will be used for elk hunting. Not sure what the max would be but seems like it would be a smart thing to know. Thinking of starting out around 42 grains but want some velocity to make sure these little pellets open up and do their job! Been shooting factory HSM 400 grain JSP at around 1850 fps. Not heavy kickers but wouldn't shoot them all day from the bench with the steel butt plate either.

Speer #13 Suggests these bullets are designed to expand at Velocities OVER 1900 FPS....       "STRONG ACTION" loads Bottom load for IMR-4198 is 46.5 Grains at 1933FPS (22"Ruger #1) They also say to limit the shots to 200 yards or less due to Velocity loss... 


 You may also want to check out this load data page.....     http://stevespages.com/458_1_350.html                   Good Luck!! "PJ"

[bikerbeans]

Alliant's load data center on their website has trapdoor level loads for this bullet but they have not published lever gun data.
 
BB
 
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=2&weight=350&shellid=108&bulletid=160

[BBF]

A similar weight and shape bullet is Hdy # 4503
 
 I would use their Manual No.Seven Page 662 as a guide for Marlin pressure loads.
 
Loads start as low as 1400 fps( which I think will not provide good expansion) to 1900 fps. Their Ruger 1 loads start at 1700 fps and go to 2200 fps.
 
42.7 gr of IMR 4198 produces 1800 fps in their Marlin Test Rifle. Max load for that powder within the Marlin pressure is 45.3 gr producing 1900 fps.
 
Ruger#1 Data for IMR 4198 is 53.3 gr maximum and produces 2200 fps.

[quickdtoo]

I agree with Papa Jack, the Speer 350gr is made for the 458 Win Mag, so using them for elk in the BC would require them to be loaded to Ruger levels for impact velocities above 1900fps as stated in the #13 manual. I've shot the 350gr Speer and the 350gr Hornady RN in one of my BCs using H322 and IMR4198(Hodgdon 350gr data), you'll get ~100-150fps more than book data in the BC's 32" barrel, the Hornady would probably be a better choice since it's very effective at lower velocities and thus less recoil.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102319.msg1098277453.html?PHPSESSID=e645jm8ro1fks4t393uariqae5#msg1098277453

[Plenty Coups]

I found data for the components on the Hodgdon site. I am sure the BC can handle the top loads for the lever rifles. With the extra length of the barrel it should boost velocities. Even with the steel butt plate I do know the recoil is mild compared to hot loads in my old 338 win mag. I don't shoot firearms much as I mostly bowhunt with my longbow. Maybe thats why I like the idea of the single shot. Must be a carry over from a bowaholic.

[BBF]

.................
.................. Even with the steel butt plate I do know the recoil is mild compared to hot loads in my old 338 win mag.

Have you tried them or are you speculating?

[Plenty Coups]

A 350 grain slug traveling at 2100 fps does not kick as much as a 250 grain Nosler partition traveling at 29oo fps generating over 4000f/lbs of muzzle energy. Even considering how light the Buffalo Classic is the recoil has more push than kick than the 338 win mag. Now should I try and push the limits of the rifle and reach into the Ruger levels things could get mean. I suspect the velocity will be between 2000 and 2150. I will not be sad if accuracy comes at lower velocities however.

[FP1201]

I'm unsure about how much pressure the Handi-Rifle and Buffalo Classic will safely stand:
So far the only loads I've shot through mine are the same ones for the Trap Door (<18K duplicating black powder)
Getting sound info is a bit difficult; for my 1895 Marlin, I load at the 28K level even though there are published and accepted loads in the 44,000psi range! (which is almost .458 Win mag.)

[quickdtoo]

They'll handle anything you can handle!!  You won't find an 1895 chambered in 500S&W, but H&R makes Handis, compare Ruger/Modern rifle 45-70 and 500S&W data on Hodgdon's site and make your own choice of what load level to shoot.  CUP = PSI in the 45-70.

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[bikerbeans]

A maximum Ruger #1 45/70 load with a 405 Rem SP in a scoped and unmodified Handi equals broken shooting glasses and a cut forehead.    But the bullet hit were I was aimin'.
 
BB

[BBF]

Plenty:
There are several recoil computers On-Line available. Plug in the pertinent values and it will give you the free recoil including the recoil velocity of any cartridge.
 
The recoil velocity gives you the information that determines the "push" value vs. the "kick"

[FP1201]

I understand the aspects of psi & CUP and while the Handi is chambered in high pressure rounds such as 30-06, I cannot see 45/70 jacked up to the same pressures being viable in the Handi-Rifle......a 45K+ 45/70 is the same as 458 win mag.
I have a .500S&W Handi and most of the "factory" stuff off the shelf is fairly tame, but start following the cookbooks and that thing will rock your world!
I'm no small tuna afrade of recoil, but experience has taught me that heavy loads out of these rifles will kick the snot out of you.

[gcrank1]

If we needed snot it wouldnt run out of our noses............

[Smokin Joe]

A 350 grain slug traveling at 2100 fps does not kick as much as a 250 grain Nosler partition traveling at 29oo fps generating over 4000f/lbs of muzzle energy.

As a matter of fact, they're almost exactly the same; within one pound.

Whoops, thought you were talking about the .45-70. The 338 does have a greater powder "jet".

[Plenty Coups]

I know the 338 would make many folks wince at the bench when they shot it. Not saying the 45-70 doesn't set me back but not like the Ruger 77's I had in 338. Now if I wanted 458 power I woulda bought me one but the BC in 45-70 calls to me something awful!!!!! I mostly bowhunt but on occasion use a rifle and this rifle I like. If they made the BC in 338 I run like hell away from it in a rifle this light in weight. Steel butt plate OR recoil pad. BAD BAD juju just thinking thoughts like that.

[FP1201]

I have a .300 Remington Ultra Mag. (Sendero) and bought a BDL in .338RUM and after a box of shells it found a new owner. It wasn't as much the increase in caliber as the weight and design of the rifle itself.
I think loading the 45/70 to not exceed a maximum of 28,000psi is prudent, and use of "Factory" ammo such as Remington and Winchester, as they are kept to <18,000psi Certainly the recoil won't be as harsh.
Initially with the .500 S&W it would "auto-open" after each shot, but the factory corrected that when it was returned to be refitted with a .35 Whelen barrel.