Author Topic: Bullet placement? (Read 3178 times)

JimDandy · « **on:** September 02, 2011, 05:06:51 AM »

I know there are alot of variables involved but, using a 308 with 150 corelokts, with a broad sideshot what are your experiences, behind the shoulder( lungs ) or high shoulder (break shoulder bones). I am hoping for a bang-flop, DRT. Range would be 100 yards or less. Thanks.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:26:14 AM »

You generally do not get bang flops with a lung shot. I recomend high shoulder or slightly base of neck in spine. This is my prefered shot for closer ranges as you specify. Longer shots than 150-75 get center lungs/behind shoulder.

CW

Land_Owner · « **Reply #2 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:57:14 AM »

If you are confident, using a steady rest, know your rifle, not shooting an "overly long" distance, and it isn't a "trophy" animal (or even if it is), they Do Not Take It Well In The Neck. Does are especially favored for shooting in this location. DRT.

jhm · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2011, 05:16:23 AM »

Over the years I have been involved in more lets go and find the deer adventures with a behind the sholder shots, I cant seem to recall any deer adventures with neck shots, but both require a decent shot placemednt and quality ammo, for a beginner go for the lungs as it is a larger shot area. Jim

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2011, 06:33:12 AM »

They day may come and I'm hoping it will not, that I have to do a neck shot.

LanceR · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2011, 12:05:47 PM »

We've all seen deer move their heads suddenly but they can't move their body anywhere near as fast so I don't take neck shots. I also don't want to ruin any meat so I don't take shoulder shots.

This season marks forty years of big game hunting for me. To date I have been both patient enough and fortunate enough to have never lost an animal. I've only ever had two deer go further than 120 yards and the vast majority dropped where shot or within 60 yards. The farthest I've ever had one go was a smallish buck who was feeding head down and which was hit broadside through both lungs with a .452 diameter 300 grain Hornady XTP. You could put three fingers in the exit wound. The darn thing surprised the heck out of me when it ran 220 yards before falling down.

The three things I want to hit most are the two lungs and the heart or the major vessels immediately around the heart. I try to visualize a bullet path that will take out two of the three of those while avoiding the backstraps and shoulders.

The professional forest meisters in Germany that I used to hunt with recommended a shot high behind the shoulder with the intent to break or disrupt the spinal cord to anchor a deer without the risk of a head or neck shot. They reasoned that you would might loose a pound or two of meat from the front end of the backstraps but would not have the damage that comes with a shoulder shot (especially one through both shoulders) and you sure won't have to track the deer. He's going down in his tracks. A hit there almost always gets one or both lungs, too. I have used that shot placement on rainy or snowy days or near evening twilight to ensure I won't have even a few yards of tracking to do.

I bow hunt and use the same two of three shot placement. For firearms hunting I use a .50 caliber muzzleloader, a 20 gauge slug rifle in shotgun only areas and a .308 with 165-168 grain bullets in centerfire rifle areas for both deer and black bear.

The 150 CoreLokt is a stone cold killer on white tailed deer and all but the biggest black bear and is always a very good choice for a .308

Hope this helps. Good luck hunting.

Lance

hillbill · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2011, 02:36:02 PM »

ive killed several deer with a 150 hornady out of a 06. all lung shots. yu wont get a bang flop kill from what ive seen,even with a perfect heart shot they will go a bit.with lung shots usually they run off like yu dint hit them, or maybe hump up and jump a little.i always give them a little while to rest, collect my gear and go down to a large blood trail or just go to the shot site and see the deer from there.ive never seen them go more than 40 yrds or so.the only bang flops ive ever had were either head shots or center shoulder shots where the bullet hit bone on both sides.i dont like the shoulder shots except for really big bucks in thick cover at dusk.just ruins too much meat.

OleFreak · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2011, 08:25:53 PM »

If I don’t want to hassle with searching for a dead deer that didn’t know it I’ll make sure it’s brain is no longer able to transmit or receive.

valvesinmyhead · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2011, 01:17:01 AM »

Here is a good short read.
http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/shotplacement.html

bilmac · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:53:10 AM »

I quit using 30 cals. especially with 150s because they are too hard on the meat. I'm a dedicated meat hunter. If you want the best chance your deer will go down, shoot him in the shoulders with a 150 gr 30 cal bullet and over say 2500 fps. Trouble is you can write off a lot of good hamburger. I avoid totally destroying the shoulder meat by either using heavy slow bullets like the 45-70, or smaller calibers like the 6mm,s.

I always shoot for well behind the shoulder but not so far back as to get behind the diaphram. This is a pretty narrow strip, and sometimes I mess up some meat by shooting a little far forward. I try to err shooting too far forward rather than too far back which will open up the paunch. That does happen occasionally but it isn't a bad a disaster as it seems as the critter usually goes down fast because the bullet still travels near the heart and lungs and usually rips them up. You do end up with loose stomach contents if you shoot too far back, but the way I butcher, I have never had it affect the quality of the meat.

To sum up, if you want your deer on the ground now, shoot him through the shoulders with a fast moving 30 cal. bullet. If you are confident of your bullet placement try to shoot behind the shoulder. He still won't go anywhere, and you may save some hamburger.

Hooker · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2011, 06:28:22 PM »

A shoulder shot is iffy there are no bones or joints to break there. A deers front legs are attached by tendons and muscle.
A neck shot is fine if you know exactly where your bullet will hit at that distance. The safest bet is a shot through the lungs this shot will put the deer down fairly quick. I like a broadside shot about 2/3 the way down from the spine. It makes dead deer very quick usually taking out the heart and lungs.
On does I like a head shot, the meat on a doe is to good to be blowing holes in it. Before I get flamed for that, let me say that I take those shots at known distances with a rifle that is more than capable. I only take that shot at animals that are still and from a rested position.

Pat

Land_Owner · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2011, 03:06:39 AM »

Quote from: Hooker on September 06, 2011, 06:28:22 PM

I take those shots at known distances with a rifle that is more than capable. I only take that shot at animals that are still and from a rested position.

Pat

No flame from here. I practice, practice, practice, take those shot too and enjoy the meat. It depends on the animal's presentation and requires confidence in one's ability and his tools to do the job. Control of the flow of adrenaline is as critical as game that is unaware of the danger. If I am not able to control my shakes, or the game is spooked, then I am not in control of myself or the situation. Typically though, for a meat hunter like me , after sitting quietly for hours it is routine to be in control and not have to take the body shot.

BBF · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:46:51 AM »

Typically in my area you are probably shivering from the cold, wet or both. After a couple of hours of that sort of delight, forget about holding a rifle real steady. A broadside chest shot gives you the most amount of "shaking" space.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2011, 09:56:23 AM »

When you shoot at shoulders there can be alot of difference in shots . Where is the leg ? out front ? stright down ? or back some? If out front you might not hit alot if you get to far forward. High , to high and forward and you miss a heart shot . If you center punch the shoulder and stay down a third to half from the top of the back you can do alot of damage. With a good 30 cal. bullet in 165-150 range you can take out both front shoulders. If deer are small 135 gr bullets work well . We hunt with shotguns in some places ( req by law ) also use buck shot ( req by law) OOO buck in a shoulder will BANG FLOP most of the time inside 45 yards with a gun made to shoot buck shot. Heres something to ponder I hunted for several seasons with a 7X30 waters mod 94 . Still hunt with it some , I can't remember the exact number of deer it took but it was quite a few . All shot thru the shoulder all dropped in less than 20 yards , 7mm bullet flat pt. 120 grs at 2700 FPS .

Hooker · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:45:03 PM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on September 07, 2011, 07:46:51 AM

Typically in my area you are probably shivering from the cold, wet or both. After a couple of hours of that sort of delight, forget about holding a rifle real steady. A braodside chest shot gives you the most amount of "shaking" space.

I'd like to hunt in the cold and snow once in awhile I've hunted a lot in T-shirt weather with skeeters and bull gnats having lunch at my expense.

Shootall
I guess we could say that any capable cartridge will work if we put the bullet in the right spot.
I've put quite a few deer and hogs down with a single shot from a 357 which I've been told is very marginal for the job.

By the way the 7x30 Waters is a super deer cartridge I don't why it did not catch on better than it did.
I have an old 340 Savage with a bad barrel that might get a new life as a 7x30.

Pat

Spirithawk · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:41:56 PM »

Depends on the situation but I usualy prefer to aim for the bottom of the lungs. Hit a bit high, you still get the lungs, a bit low and you get the heart. Either way the deer isn't going far. I've hunted since 2,001 with a T/C Encore .270 and one shot, one kill works fine for me. My son loves my Encore so much he's semi-retired his Ruger Mark II All Weather 7mm mag and bought a T/C Pro Hunter 7mm mag. Hunt with a single shot and you learn the importance of shot placement.

charles p · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2011, 02:53:00 PM »

I cast my vote for the high shoulder, base of neck location. The closer the range, the more I move up the neck. The farther the range, the more I creep back to the shoulder area, but never low on the shoulder and never behind the shoulder.
Unless you are shooting an arrow, why would you not want to hit bone and drop your deer in its track?

Spirithawk · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2011, 03:57:53 PM »

Quote from: charles p on September 23, 2011, 02:53:00 PM

I cast my vote for the high shoulder, base of neck location. The closer the range, the more I move up the neck. The farther the range, the more I creep back to the shoulder area, but never low on the shoulder and never behind the shoulder.
Unless you are shooting an arrow, why would you not want to hit bone and drop your deer in its track?

Because a lot of calibers will destroy a conciderable amount of meat if they hit heavy bone.

BBF · « **Reply #18 on:** September 24, 2011, 03:23:48 PM »

I've promised myself to try a cast bullet from a 45-70 for Deer this year. The blind will offer a 25 yard shot and it is usually just minutes left during shooting hours.

Last season a lung shot from a 30-06 150 gr RN involved a flashlight search and falling down over a log with a loaded rifle. That last part will never happen again !!

I want the Deer to drop so I'm going for a high shoulder shot if given the opportunity.

GeneRector · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:31:27 PM »

Howdy! For years I have hunted deer using the heart-lung area for the shot. However, on many of the Hunting Shows today you would think that the high shoulder/spine shot has become the standard where the deer is DRT. Just an observation. Always, Gene

hillbill · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:39:54 PM »

Quote from: GeneRector on September 24, 2011, 05:31:27 PM

Howdy! For years I have hunted deer using the heart-lung area for the shot. However, on many of the Hunting Shows today you would think that the high shoulder/spine shot has become the standard where the deer is DRT. Just an observation. Always, Gene

dont believe that stuff. shoot for the heart lung area.that always makes them dead!i really dont mind tracking them for 20 yards or so!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:53:14 PM »

Quote from: GeneRector on September 24, 2011, 05:31:27 PM

Howdy! For years I have hunted deer using the heart-lung area for the shot. However, on many of the Hunting Shows today you would think that the high shoulder/spine shot has become the standard where the deer is DRT. Just an observation. Always, Gene

With in ranges I am "intimate" with. This has been my shot of choice since I knew better... In my mind there is just a problem with them walking or even moving away after I shoot them...
For the long shots... 200 + sure center lungs is a better target. But I dont shoot many so far away...

Dave in WV · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2011, 02:36:57 PM »

Hit the kill zone and the deer dies. Aim to place your bullet through the kill zone no matter what the angle is. Don't count on a "bang flop". They're nice if it happens but a clean kill zone shot does the trick.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 25, 2011, 02:57:09 PM »

Just as important as shot placement is the bullet used. As I said, a shoulder shot is fine if you feel the need, but the wrong bullet will definitely destroy a lot of good meat and I eat what I kill. I've seen a .30-06 waste both shoulders so badly that one had to be salvaged for stew meat, and little of it, and the oposite shoulder had to be thrown away. Also, I don't mind tracking a deer. To me that is part of the fun of the hunt. I've rarely had to track one more than 50 yards. Had to look hard a couple times but that just made scoring those deer that much more memorable.

bilmac · « **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2011, 02:47:58 AM »

My wife shot an antelope once with a 150 gr from a 308 that totally destroyed both shoulders AND opened up the stomach. I used the same rifle and shot a deer in the neck, and mostly wasted both shoulders. Yup, those shots really put the critters down, but I like my venison too.

TommyD · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2011, 07:54:23 AM »

I vote for the behind the shoulder double lung/heart shot. They won't go far.
Last year I used a 308 for the first time. 168 gr Barnes TTSX out of an Encore pistol going 2400 fps over my chronograph.

2 deer at 117 yards, each collapsed on the spot with the behind the shoulder shot. They just legalized rifle hunting in my county, so I will be using the same load out of my Kimber 84 M Montana.
From the exit wound, I'd say that the Barnes expanded beautifully, even at reduced pistol velocities. However with complete penetration, there was no bullet recovered so show it.

I have otherwise used the Hornady 300 grain .452 XTP, both out of a revolver and my muzzleloader. Only one deer ever ran more than 20 yards. He was down in about 5 seconds, but he covered about 60 yards across an open field. There was blood everywhere so he would not have been hard to track.

You lose a little bloodshot muscle between the ribs, but most of the meat is just fine.
You can see wounds from last year's hunt at:
http://homepage.mac.com/paradigm1/p/hunt2010/csi2010.html

Tom

Hank08 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2011, 08:27:12 AM »

Been hunting Deer since 1943, have killed around a 150, have records of over 120 with, cal., bullet , gun, where hit, how far traveled, etc. sometime only a head or neck is visible or they may be facing the shooter or walking away then I'd shoot them in whatever part was visible but given a choise I'll always shoot behind the shoulder, they seldom go anywhere. I've shot them with rifles, pistols, muzzleloaders from up close to way out there. Just shot this one 3 days ago with a muzzleloader, .50 cal, see where the hole is. He took 2 or 3 steps and keeled over.
H08

cwlongshot · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2011, 12:44:13 PM »

Very nice pic Hank!!

Congrats on the buck.

CW

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2011, 12:46:31 PM »

I try to shoot through the front shoulders if I can.

deernhog · « **Reply #29 on:** October 08, 2011, 06:18:30 PM »

Has anyone considered shooting angle. Quartering away from a 12' elevated stand at 25 yards is a big difference from quartering to you from a kneeling postion at 75 yards. Straight away or facing you also has its place. I refuse to head shoot. I tracked a 3 point a friend had head shot. We followed it for a quarter mile and finally finished it of in a creek where it was struggling to get a drink with its whole bottom jaw and tongue shot off.