Author Topic: Trade Gone Bad (Read 7694 times)

jcb67 · « **on:** September 06, 2011, 05:28:01 PM »

I did a barrel trade with a guy. I sent him my barrel which he received. He shipped me his, but it was lost in the mail. He failed to insure it and now says the lost is mine. What are your views on this?
Thanks,
John B.

CannonKrazy · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:46:31 PM »

Without hearing both sides of the story it's hard to say. My first thought would be he didn't insure it or at least get a tracking number, therefor it would be his responcibility for the loss. My second thought was he has a new barrel and does't care if you get yours. Dirty business either way. Hate to say it but sounds like you are gonna end up holding the stinky end of the stick.

If it was a member here you may want to report them to GB just to keep it from happening again.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:49:38 PM »

What he says is true... you acted in good faith, he however has not. When you receive your barrel the trade is complete, and not until. You have delivered him product, he has not delivered payment, attempted or not does not matter.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** September 06, 2011, 07:56:59 PM »

The whole story hasn't been told here. As I said in my PM to you it's fine to report the story but tell the whole story not part of it.

From the other party to the trade:

Quote

What was the package? I shipped it in a tube. It was shipped priority mail. It was weighed at my post office. I was charged according to the weight of the package, so the tube was not empty. It was taped 3 different ways on it end and had a plastic cap on each end. Do you still have the tracking number? I would check with post office and find out where it went. It should have been there in not more than 2 days. Let me know what you find out.

and:

Quote

I will go to my post office tomorrow. I still have the receipt showing the information. This package was supposed to be delivered on the 3rd. I would like to find out what they did with it for the extra 5 days. The package you shipped only took 2 days to get here.

and:

Quote

Were the caps removed or the tube cut somewhere. I dont see how the post office can not make this right. There is no explanation for shipping a 5 pound package and delivering a one pound package. Did you keep the tube? Here is my number if you wish to speak with me personally.

and:

Quote

I don't agree. It was your responsability to insure the item you had coming. You did not ask for insurance ,so I did not insure. I furnished proof that I mailed a 5 pound package and you received a 1 pound package. In addition, the item was marked as opened and contents missing. I did nothing wrong, and while I am sorry for your loss, I am not responsible.
If my item was missing and you furnished proof of shipment I would not hold you accountable. I filed a claim with the post office and have proof of doing so. Thats all I can do.

Quote

I agree you did your part, but I feel that I also did my part, and provided proof that I shipped your item. I hate that it happened, but I shipped it and it was stolen. I don't see how I should be the one to lose out. The package was not insured and I don't feel responsible for the loss.The package weighed 5 pounds when shipped,and was missing its contents in Penn.

Lastly:

Quote

One of these guys had an idea I could live with.I wanted $160.00 for my barrel. I will send you $80.00 and keep the barrel or you send me $80.00 and I will send you the barrel. You kow the barrel was packaged well and my feedback speaks for itself. I refuse to be liable for a postal service thief.You kow I shipped the item and you try to let people believe otherwise. Yo have my offer,thats all I will do. If situations were reversed I would not be be upset with you if proof of shipment was provided. Neither of us insured our respective items so I will share half the loss.

keith44 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2011, 09:29:23 PM »

Good faith trade gone bad due to:
1) Outside/third party interference
2) Failure of both parties to insure packages shipped
3) (and sorry but this is how I see it) the one left with the raw end of the deal should not air dirty laundry and attempt to be-smearch or soil the character of the other when a reasonable offer of shared loss was made.

Greybeard, delete this if I am out of line, and send PM to let me know not to post something like this in the future.

Keith

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:42:25 AM »

No you are 100% correct which is why I interceded and posted what I did. It is entirely likely the other party is not even aware this thread has been posted.

jcb67 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2011, 12:59:51 PM »

Well I was taught to do the "right" thing and I feel that I have been cheated in this transaction. He can keep my barrel and that will be the end of it.
Thanks,
John B.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:06:37 PM »

Interesting. Why do you feel cheated? As was said you both failed to insure thus accepted the possibility of loss. He shipped as you did but the barrel headed your way was stolen by a postal employee. Certainly not his fault so why should he accept the loss?

He offeredf to split the loss with you which I feel is a fair offer under the circumstances. Let it be a lesson to all of the value of insurance. I shipped out a box of 500 bullets today on a trade with another GBO member and insured them for $150 which I believe will replace them if lost/stolen. Had you both agreed to do that you'd neither one be having to take a loss.

If you decide to not accept his offer of splitting the loss that's your decision and in no way is a reflection on him for not trying. Under the circumstances as I know them I do not feel you should be made whole and him accept the full loss. I think splitting the loss equally is very fair given the situation.

If you had insured and he failed to I'd see this differently but neither did.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:11:13 PM »

Hey GB,

Your answer reflects the wisdom of Solomon in his offer to split (cut) the baby (in half)

.

wallacem · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2011, 04:43:38 PM »

It sounds like this is open for opinions, and i have a very strong opinion on this subject. Bill, if you don't want this here please delete it, but i have worried for years about this. It does not matter whether both of them insured or not, it is simply the responsibility of the sender to get the item to the buyer, not just drop it in the post office. It could be lost or stolen, and that was not the agreement, the agreement was to get it to the buyer, that does not change. I always insure a package I send and also get confirmation receipt. Wallacem in Ga.

pastorp · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2011, 06:23:57 AM »

If the item is sold as shipped in the add it should be the sellers responsibality to deliver it to the buyer. Seller bears the loss if it is uninsured.

If you had just agreed on that in the deal this thread would not be here. I agree offering to split the loss sounds like a generious offer. And the OP is either too stuborn or too dense to realise it.

Regards,

Austin from NC · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2011, 07:39:27 PM »

Always insure anything you can't afford to lose. Anything I ship worth anything is shipped insured for enough to replace it and with delivery conformation. Only cost a few bucks. Don't skimp period.

Austin

wallacem · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2011, 03:04:15 AM »

Austin, I would think we all agree with your posting, but probably, the real question here might be, who is responsible? Is it the responsibility for the seller to get the item to the buyer, ir does his responsibility end with dropping it in the post office? I contend it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer. With that in mind, it would be smart to insure the package. Wallacem

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2011, 04:30:49 AM »

I wouldn't consider shipping a barrel or anything of value without insurance without prior approval from the buyer. I feel that the seller owes it to the buyer to do everything in his power to see that the item arives in the same condition that it was shipped. If the seller wants to be cheap and not include insurance, he needs to make sure that the buyer understands and agrees before shipping.

rdmallory · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:32:27 PM »

A word to the wise about USPS "insurance"

The last item the USPS lost for me they wanted me to provide proof of what the item cost me. Not what it was sold for or what it was insured for but what I paid for the item. I did finally get partial payment after they looked for the item for 60 days.

Doug

jcb67 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:30:02 PM »

To add a little clarity to this. We did a trade. He received my barrel on approval before he tried to ship me his. I received an empty box on August 8 and filed a complaint with the post office. As of today, I have received nothing from the post office. I still feel its is his responsibility to make this right.
Thanks,
John B.

bluedog6 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:45:08 PM »

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2011, 04:17:37 AM »

Quote from: jcb67 on October 12, 2011, 01:30:02 PM

To add a little clarity to this. We did a trade. He received my barrel on approval before he tried to ship me his. I received an empty box on August 8 and filed a complaint with the post office. As of today, I have received nothing from the post office. I still feel its is his responsibility to make this right.
Thanks,
John B.

The barrel that was lost while being shipped to me had clearly broken thru the end of the container. If they are not packed tightly end-to-end a barrel is very likely to break out due to rough handling. Was there evidence of this on the box you received?

30-30man · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2011, 05:00:04 PM »

The same thing happened to me during a PIF. I shipped two items and one guy got his and the other claimed to not receive his package. It was only empty brass and I was going to send the guy another package until it turned ugly. I really believe the guy got the package, but it just took longer than we both expected. By then it had already gotten ugly and the other party rushed to judgement. I refuse to ship anything without a tracking # and insurance now. That is one reason I have turned away from PIF. The shipping is just too high with tracking and insurance. Sad, but you can't trust people when there is no way to prove they got the item.

jcb67 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:37:05 AM »

The shipping tube ends show no signs of damage. The tube is 37" with a 23" barrel. Leaves room for some movement. I have still received no barrel as of 10/24/2011.
Thanks,
John B.

P.A. Myers · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2011, 02:20:02 PM »

In any case; forgive as you wish to be forgiven.

P.A.

ratdog · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:47:21 AM »

if you don't insure it and get tracking number your in trouble kiss it good buy .i had the same problem.if you buy something to try for 30 days free and you dont do the insurance and tracking number kiss it good buy its sitting in a ware house with all the rest lost items or stolen.

giddens1972 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2011, 08:31:20 AM »

This is just my 2cents...If you ship anything and insure it with USPS, expect to get a depreciated settlement if it comes to that. I had a contender barrel that was lost in the mail, which was worth well over 300. I had to show proof of how much it was when I bought it, proof of the work done on the barrel, and all that jazz. I got a whopping $31 check. Lesson learned though.

keith44 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 14, 2011, 09:21:13 AM »

I would show a custom work build ticket. A one of a kind valued at $1,000.00.

My father-in-law flew to a hunt out of state, and insured his Ruger Red Label, with two barrel sets, both ported and back bored for $60,000. No questions asked, when the package was delivered damaged to the host of the hunt, one of the barrels had been dented. A check for $25,000 was waiting for him when the plane landed. This was back in 1994, and I am sure things have changed some since then, but I still recommend insuring for at least double the value of any non-standard, or hard to get items. (out of stock barrels, lengths that are not readily available, etc.)

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2011, 03:37:16 PM »

A barrel that I bought was lost by USPS (it broke out of the box) during shipping. The seller did the paperwork and included the PayPal receipt to show what I paid for it. I received the full value plus the postage, insurance fee and confirmation fee.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2011, 03:09:37 PM »

My take...once the item is shipped be it by an individual or by a retail company, once it's shipped and in the possession of the carrier, the sender's responsiblity ends. How can the sender be responsible for what some thief did? No different than if an item is dropped off at the person's door and then stolen. It clearly seems that a heavy packaged was shipped so the sender seemingly did their part. Insurance...that should've all been worked out beforehand and not dragged into it after an issue arose.

Not telling the whole story - there's 3 sides to every one - paints a picture that's not so flattering.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2011, 04:48:37 PM »

As I understand the law on this which was explained to me sometime back, there is no legal responseability on anyones part.
Supposedly: -- The seller has proof of what he shipped.
Supposedly: -- The buyer has proof of what he received.
There was no insurance asked for and none applied to the shipment therefore the shipping co. is not responsible.
Legally, no one can force any of the party's involved to pay a dime.
Lesson learned.
Seller: -- Never ship without insurance.
Buyer: -- Always ask to have it shipped insured.

As for the offer to split the lose, that is very generous considering legally, his responsibility ended when he dropped the package off to be shipped.
It was out of his controll from that point on.

This is the way it was explained to me when a package I received arrived with most of the contents missing.

LONGTOM

Alvin · « **Reply #27 on:** December 23, 2011, 04:57:38 PM »

I agree that his responsibility ended when he dropped the package off at the post office. If you wanted it insured, you should have asked for it. You stated that the barrel you shipped to him wasn't insured either. You both took your chances, you just had the bad luck.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2011, 05:46:46 PM »

Part of the problem I have with paying for the insurance if I am the one who is buying is that...the seller is the one who has to buy the insurance policy therefore he is the one who is going to have to file the claim and the one who gets the check and if he is dishonest in the first place he just took you for dbl. thats why I have a problem with some here that think their resposability ends when they drop it off at the carrier. I got into a peeing match with a fellow on the shipment of a gun to a FFL telling him it was not my resposability to pay for insurance on a gun that I can not even own legally til the transfer is complete...He owns the gun til then. Correct?? Kurt

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:18:52 PM »

So his cost for insurance should be added to the sale? Since this was a trade, if the op had insured the barrel he shipped then the second guy should have insured his. Since the OP didn't, thru both paid equal shipping and took equal risks.