Conservatives on Abortion vs Divorce: honest conviction, or cowardice?

[yellowtail3]

We see a lot posts on abortion, and a lot strong feelings on the subject. A political candidate's position on abortion - even if they're not interested in the issue, and even if the office they're seeking has little bearing on abortion - is touted as a reason to support a political candidate, or to oppose one. Political Christians make a huge issue of this, often making it the test: if the candidate if pro-choice, he gets a thumbs down, no matter how good on other issues. If he's pro-life, he gets their support even if he (or she) is an utter dunce in other areas. Or so it seems.

Contrast this with the apparent publicly-expressed attitude toward divorce, which is pretty much... nothing said.  Divorce is common, it is destructive, and it is clearly a sin, according to the bible. Maybe because women initiate most divorces, people are afraid to piss off the feminists? Jesus says little that I'm aware of about abortion - did he say anything about abortion, specifically? I don't know (murder is a whole 'nuther subject, so let's not sidetrack).

However... Jesus directly addressed divorce, and was clearly against it. So, why do his politically conservative followers (?) these days have much to say about abortion, and almost nothing to say about divorce?

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of GBO members on this subject.

Here's my own opinion, subject to change as I learn more:

Divorce is a popular sin, amongst Christians - many have done it, and there's no hiding it. People know if you're divorced, whereas... abortion can be hidden. Divorce does lots of damage, and is immoral. Where else can one break a contract, with expectation of state encouragement to do so?

What say ye, posters? Is abortion a more damaging sin than divorce? Or is divorce considered to be harmless, less so much less than abortion, that it gets no mention?

Listening closely...

[SwampThing762]

YT3,

Abortion is a mortal sin......."Thou shalt not kill."    It is a very simple concept.   For that reason, I am pro-life.  I also believe that if a man gets a woman pregnant out of wedlock, he ponies up and does the honorable thing....marriage.    For that, I guess I am an anachronism.

I think divorce is one of those catch-22 sin dilemmas.   Divorcing a spouse is an abrogation of marital vows (a sin), and not giving a spouse who wants a divorce (thereby forcing them into a commiserable situation for both parties out of malice) is also a sin.

Socially,  divorce is so commonplace and mundane that there is no thought given to the matter.   Conversely, abortion is murder because a person chooses to willingly end another human life.   There is no biblical separation of abortion and murder (I looked, trust me).  Also, there is absolutely no shame in taking a pregnancy to term and then relinquishing custody for adoptive purposes.

Jesus condemns divorce in Matthew 5:32 by saying divorce for purposes of being with another person is fornication adultery by both parties, but read Matthew 5:21 on murder, which is killing by choice, wherein it is written "whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment".   It is also from the Sermon on the Mount.

ST762

[Gary G]

A woman came to her preacher saying "I just don't love my husband anymore".
The preacher replied "Have you repented yet?"
---------------------------------------

I suppose a woman who aborted her child when she was very young, could at a later time obey the Gospel and be forgiven of her sin. But one divorced for unscriptural reasons could not be forgiven as they are still living in that condition until they correct it, if they can. In that way, divorce might be worse.

[billy_56081]

I guess I can't see why one would equate murder with divorce, unless one was an angry controlling person going through a divorce.

[SwampThing762]

billy,

I was not equating the sins of abortion and divorce.  Divorce is a sin where both parties emerge with their lives.  Abortion is murder, a sin with a 50% casualty rate (ie, only one person comes out alive).

You cannot equate murder and divorce to each other, other than the fact they are both sins.

ST762

[Shu]

Perhaps we should follow a Biblical teaching. "If you see a brother in a sin that leads to death you should warn him."
Jesus taught on divorce becuase in the day people were divorcing their wives for ridiculous reasons. Jesus said except for infidelty there is no reason for divorce.
People weren't having abortions at the drop of the hat like they are today. How do we know this, easy Jesus would have taught against it. He gave us 2 commands Love God and Love on another as I have loved you. If you love God and one another you won't be divorcing or aborting. You do not seek to have lusts fullfiled but have self control. If people had self control there would be no need for divorces or abortions.
 
I have been married a mere 26 years to the same woman. I am today very much in love with her and I do very much lust after her. The road has not always been easy but it sure is worth it.
Christianity is also about self control. If you missed that point I am not sure what to tell you.

[SHOOTALL]

Lets see hum , Divorce , in most cases its because of selfishness on one side or the other . In many cases it shows the canidate was selfish and others don't want a selfish person making laws .
Abortion hum , well the decision to not have a child should be made before intercourse and nessary steps taken to insure it dosen't take place. Failure is often defended with "it happened in the heat of passion" Many see this as lack of control . They don't wish to have someone making laws that can't control themselves.
The same can be said about homosexuals , they display a behavior that is not accepted by many and many don't wish to be exposed to it.
 In many ways these things are changing , why ? Maybe people are getting used to them or being forced by the PC crowd . Then in some cases those supporting the canidates are looking for partners in crime .

[powderman]

SHU. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

I have no reason to believe abortion is a sin, but if it is you are forgiven if you ask for forgivness.
 
Divorce and the adultry that occurs if you remarry IMO is about the worst sin you can commit.
 
If you are divorced you can't serve in the church in any capicity.  That tell be something.

[Empty Quiver]

I'd say that familiarity with divorce is the foremost reason it is accepted. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is condoned, but many realize that no matter what one party may desire if the other does not the marriage is over.


When it comes to abortion, there are enough options that would allow the child to live. Out of wedlock no longer carries much of a stigma. Adoption is simple, people are willing to pay you to carry full term, for that matter. Birth control options make Baskin Robbins blush. You have most assuredly made a decision to kill someone, no accident here.


I understand I have generalized and each situation is unique.

[Avyctes]

Jesus supported Moses' 'Just Cause' divorce, so is divorce always a sin?

As far as abortion, in my heart I believe it is sinful and I believe it is murder.  I know yellow stipulated in his original post that he didn't want the thread t-boned with 'abortion is not murder therefor not a sin', but it's impossible to debate the issue if you can't express your true feelings about it.  Really, stipulating 'you can't say abortion is murder' in this thread is the same as saying 'you have to debate it as if you feel as I do about it', which is non-sense as far as debate goes. 

I don't  think divorce is a sin, at least not for some reasons.  Just getting bored with your spouse and ruining their life by divorce would be sinful in my book - but if they ruin your life by adultery or whatever, then they sue for divorce, and you feel forced to go along with it, did you sin?  No, not in my opinion, and I think both Jesus and Moses will back that up.

Here's an interesting site I found while researching and thinking about this subject:
http://christiandivorce.1hwy.com/

[Swampman]

I don't  think divorce is a sin

To swear a lie isn't a sin?

[Avyctes]

To swear a lie isn't a sin?

You tell me.  Jesus backed Moses' decision.  So, you tell me Swampy.  You seem to know more about what Christianity is NOT about than anyone here.  No offense, but you say your a Christian while at the same time many of your replies and posts are anathema to Biblical teachings. 

[Swampman]

Jesus did not back Moses, decision.  You make an oath to stay with someone for life, and then break it.....that's ok?
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

I don't  think divorce is a sin

To swear a lie isn't a sin?

Oh really ? did you miss the part about bearing false wittness ?

[SHOOTALL]

Lets see if a woman cheats on her husban he has a right to divorce her . She is sinning to remarry. In Bible times a man can have more than one wife ? So he can remarry virgin and be not sinning ?

[Avyctes]

Jesus did not back Moses, decision

To the question of the Pharisees, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" Jesus replies: "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:7-9)

Emphasis added of course.

[ironglow]

  Simple;
    Divorce is a sin, abortion is a sin...  People get hurt by way of divorce, people get murdered by way of abortion.  There can be lingering negative effects from both.. 
         ...But the Good news is that nearly all sin can be forgiven, if one turns to the savior.

[Dixie Dude]

There are degrees of sin, and degrees of how that sin affects you or others.  For instance, gluttony is a sin, but it is a lessor sin than divorce, which is a lessor sin than murder.
 
Gluttony only affects the person overeating.  This sin may affect you with diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. 
 
Divorce affects two people, sometimes 3 or 4 if other parties are married.  Then it affects children.  Children will have to be raised by a single parent, money will be tighter, children might have to be left to themselves while a single parent works.  This will affect the children moreso than the two parties.  This causes them to get into trouble as teens more than a two parent family.  Lots more agrueing, fighting, etc.  So Divorce is a greater sin and has more negative results than gluttony, however, there can be healing, but it takes time and work.  Trust becomes a big issue if the innocent parties remarry. 
 
Then there is murder.  One person will never be around again.  If they were innocent, their kids, wife, family will miss them.  This causes the same problems as divorce if children are involved.  The person murdered might never have had the opportunity to know Christ.  Murder is forever. 
 
Theft is an issue that can be a small or large sin.  From a pen taken from work to grand theft, or stealing from someone, or mugging someone. 

[Cabin4]

If you are divorced you can't serve in the church in any capicity.  That tell be something.

I thought you said you don't beleive in church as it is place that man teaches religion, not God.

[Swampman]

I did....
 
Truthfully there's no such thing as "sins" there is only sin.  Telling a lie is the same thing as murder.  Looking at a woman with desire is the same thing as adultry.

[billy_56081]

I done a whole pil,e of sinning, in fact I have broke every commandment, but I have been given salvation by the blood of my personal savior and lord Jesus Christ.

[DDZ]

Adultery is not necessarily a reason to divorce. If the spouse returns and wants to reconcile, and be forgiven they should be forgiven.  God forgives us many times over for sin. He expects us to do the same. Reconciliation and forgiveness should always be the first steps. In Malachi 2:16 God says that He hates divorce. I take that to mean that one should do everything in their power to save a marriage, no matter the circumstances. God is there as a witness when you say your marriage vows, and a covenant is made with God. God does expect you to remain, "til death do us part".   

[Hooker]

I done a whole pil,e of sinning, in fact I have broke every commandment, but I have been given salvation by the blood of my personal savior and lord Jesus Christ.

Amen
In Gods eyes all sin is the same.
The only sin which you can not be forgiven is the sin that you do not repent of and ask Gods forgiveness for.
Heaven will be full of sinners there by the grace of God.

Pat

[Dixie Dude]

It only takes one little sin to seperate you from God, thus Jesus Christ blood for our salvation.  I was pointing out how degrees of sin affect a person.  Some sins have a greater effect on us, thus degrees of sin.  Gluttony is not a punishable offence by man, but the person punishes themselves with the associated diseases.  Murder is punishable by man and God allows us to use capital punishment in those instances.  Theft is also in various degrees, from a simple paperclip to breaking and entering and stealing all of someones possessions.  I believe abortion is murder. 

[XD40SC]

What about the old philosophical question- Is telling a lie to save someones life; a sin ? Ex.- all the Jews saved in WW2 because of the lies told by those hiding them.

[ironglow]

What about the old philosophical question- Is telling a lie to save someones life; a sin ? Ex.- all the Jews saved in WW2 because of the lies told by those hiding them.

****************************************************************************************
  XD;
     You have hit upon an age-old dilemma which some Christians struggle with. ..If a lie saves lives or does some great good, is it still a sin ?  Hard , cold fact does say it is a sin..but remember, every sin is not a "sin unto death" (soul death).
     
       For an answer, let's turn to God's own words.  We see in (Joshua ch 2) how Rahab, a harlot whose house was perched upon the walls of Jericho (double walls), hid the Hebrew spies under material on the roof and told the king's searchers that the Hebrews had already left; thereby saving the 2 spies lives and the future of Israel.
       Now, here's my view...   This story of Rahab is a wonderful story of sin and redemption and frames a beautiful picture for each of us in this church age to look back upon our sinful lives before we found Jesus.
      Rahab was a harlot, living in pagan Jericho.  She knew nothing of the true God and seemingly cared less, considering her lifestyle.  She had however, heard of the miracles of God, drying up of the Red Sea etc and was convinced in her heart.
  As the spies left, they told her to place a scarlet cord in her window and thereby the invading army of Joshua woud "pass over" her house, harming none there.
   "Pass-over"...does that sound familiar ?  In Egypt, the blood of the lamb was placed upon the door posts and lintel...and the "Death Angel" passed over all in that house.  Today, we plead the scarlet blood of Christ..the "lamb of God".. and when that time comes, the "Death Angel" will pass-over each of us!
   An excellent picture of a lost sinner..seeing the truth; pleading for, and receiving redemption.  God indeed forgives..
  00000000000000000000000000000
 
  Yes lying is a sin, but unlike some say all sins are not equal..nearly all are, but some few are especially egregious to God.
 
  For instance, bring the funds of a prostitute or homosexual into the temple is an abomination;
   King James Bible
"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God"
 
   Almost all sins can be forgiven, but there is a sin "unto death" (soul death).
  " King James Bible
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it".
 
       'Nuff preaching..carry on..

[SHOOTALL]

lieing to an enemy or lieing for personal gain or false wittness. Three different things. If lieing to an enemy is a sin then so is camoflage. It is to cloke the truth not for personal gain.
 " truth is so precious in war time it must be protected by a body guard of lies " W. Churchill

[Swampman]

Sin is sin...one is as bad as another.  In fact everything we do is a sin.  God cannot even look at us except through the blood.

[ironglow]

 You make a very valid point, Shootall !
 
  ...And let's not forget the "redemption" which Rahab experienced.  She so changed her life that her name is found in those  of the earthly genealogy of our Lord Jesus  !