Author Topic: Master and Commander  (Read 1676 times)

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Offline GGaskill

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Master and Commander
« on: September 08, 2011, 10:19:23 PM »
Anyone remember what color the 24 pounder gun trucks were painted in this flick?

Thanks.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 11:43:36 PM »
They looked like plain yellow to me, not the darker yellow ochre that some researchers say would be the accurate color for British naval carriages of that time period. The main battery guns on the HMS Surprise weren't 24-pounders though.

Now I see that you were just asking for the color of the wheels: black.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Soot

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 02:31:22 AM »

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2011, 03:38:14 AM »
That is grime covered yellow uchre...those guns in the picture are Fiberglas by the way.

Offline irishman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2011, 04:33:17 AM »
DD,
 
     Do you have them teaching classes on 'carriage painting'?
 
                                                 Michael

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2011, 08:36:39 AM »
I learned how to draw circles and am learning the erase key well

Offline irishman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 09:27:29 AM »
DD,
 
From one 'old dog' to another, we can learn new tricks. Circles are good, especially when it comes to cannon.
 
                                        Michael

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 02:47:16 PM »
Maybe I can make some paint from the yellow ochre I sent DD.   ;D
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 03:03:58 PM »
Maybe I can make some paint from the yellow ochre I sent DD.   ;D

Go for it George, but I didn't have any luck with it because the pigment was too coarse.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 03:11:22 PM »
I remember.  I was going to put it in a tumbler with a bunch of ball bearings and try to grind it finer.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2011, 02:33:08 AM »
I'm not going to say how many times I've viewed this moving picture show, but I will say that the main reason that I like it is because of the maker's attempt to portray historic realism. As I understand it, this movie cost 150 million to produce, and a big slice of that pie went towards research and production values; but as they say, to error is human. One of those errors would be the 'iron' tyres seen on the gun carriage trucks; while those tyres would be appropriate for the trucks of a garrison or seacoast gun, they would never have been used on a shipboard gun's wheels.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2011, 08:41:38 AM »
 
I thought the carraiges were grey when shown in the beginning of the movie....... are those tin boxes on the surprise air conditioning ducts:o
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasshaw/2427272132/
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2011, 02:05:36 PM »
Tin boxes?
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Zulu

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2011, 02:11:01 PM »
Tin boxes?

It does look like metal air conditioning duct in a couple of places in the ceiling.
Zulu
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Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 02:29:43 PM »
I think I see what you are talking about.  The silver colored pieces that are running along the overhead deck joists.  I like this movie also because they tried to be so historically accurate.  Of course I like it also because I helped with the artillery sound effects.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2011, 06:07:24 PM »
Those may well be ventilation ducts, because the ship, (a reproduction of an 18th century frigate named the HMS Rose, now renamed the HMS Surprise) is now on display moored at the San Diego Maritime Museum, and it's probably for the comfort of visitors in the summer.


I do believe that "Artilleryman" may be one of the 'collectors' mentioned in this Wikipedia entry for "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World." Do any corrections need to be made to this text, Norm?

(Sound designer Richard) King located collectors in Michigan who owned a 24-pounder and a 12-pounder cannon. King and two assistants went to Michigan and recorded the sounds of the cannon firing at a nearby National Guard base. They placed microphones near the cannon to get the "crack" of the cannon fire, and also about 300 yards (270 m) downrange to record the "shrieking" of the chain shot as it passed overhead. They also recorded the sounds of bar shot and grape shot passing overhead, and later mixed the sounds of all three types of shot for the battle scenes.
For the sounds of the shot hitting the ships, they set up wooden targets at the artillery range and blasted them with the cannon, but found the sonic results underwhelming. Instead, they returned to Los Angeles and there recorded sounds of wooden barrels being destroyed. King sometimes added the "crack" of a rifle shot to punctuate the sound of a cannon ball hitting a ship's hull.

 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 06:34:30 PM »
We never intentionally shot at a wood target made of 4x6 timbers as they wanted the sounds of projectiles in the air.  There was one errant hit at 400 yards on this structure with 24 pdr chained shot coming close to wiping out a $6000 microphone that was placed on the structure.   We did fire at a pallet structure at 100 or so yards with grape shot.

We had a lot of fun and got paid to shoot when normally we pay to shoot.  The 12 pdr was mine and the the 24 pdr howitzer belonged to Matt Switlik.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2011, 06:35:34 PM »
Those are storage compartments, you can see latches and bands quite easily.

I recently researched a pair of guns that came off the Rose when she was refit to be the  Surprise.

The most relevant message was this one for the original builder of HMS Rose, John Millar...
Quote
Dear Douglas,
   I built ROSE in 1969-70, and gradually during the summer of 1970 I bought cannons for her. The barrels were cast iron with a steel sleeve, and I think they were probably 6-pounder size, because I had no money so that’s the closest to could get to the 9-pounders she should have had. I bought two [smaller] barrels from Dixie Gun Works in Union City TN, and the majority of the cannons from Barney’s Cannons in South Bend IN (still in business, but with a stuffier name: South Bend Replicas). Two or possibly 4 cannons came from LaPan’s Foundry in Hudson Falls NY, which I believe is no longer in business, and they may indeed have been 9-pounders. A friend of mine bashed out the carriages for almost no cost, using douglas fir and spruce.
   Senator Gunther, as far as I know, was a very influential member of the Connecticut State Senate. After I sold ROSE in 1984 to Kaye Williams of Bridgeport CT, Congress changed the rules under which ships like that may operate – when I had her, all she was permitted to do was be a pier-side museum, and if she ever went out sailing (very expensive with insurance, etc.) I was not permitted to charge anyone, but suddenly from 1984 onwards she was allowed to take on sail-trainees (but not passengers, of course) paying to sail on her. Williams, so I hear, had to find over $2 million to fix her up, and the rumor is that Senator Gunther was extremely influential in prying loose a lot of that money. That’s presumably why his name appears on the cannon carriage. I have no idea if he is still alive.
   I hope that helps answer your question.
Sincerely,
John



Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2011, 10:49:03 AM »
Tin boxes?

It does look like metal air conditioning duct in a couple of places in the ceiling.
Zulu

I got curious about this, because I sure didn't remember seeing these in the film; so I replayed the dvd last night using ff and pause to check out scenes shot on the gun deck, and they're not there. 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2011, 04:42:24 PM »
Well it's pretty unlikely they are air conditioning ducts.  First the ship in wooden.  You would not want the dry air of an A/C in the interior of the ship, it would shrink the wood and the ship would leak.

The other thing is that the  Museum is trying to get this ship certified as a tall ship sailing craft it is not a dockside attraction. The do try for a smidgen of authentic in these thing and A/C is not authentic.


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 09:16:29 AM »
The metal work that can be seen attached to the overhead of the "Surprise" gun deck in this flickr photo, are actually stainless steel fluorescent lamp housings.
We owe this information to a couple of very congenial "History Faculty" members of the Maritime Museum of San Diego: Mark Montijo is a curator, and Dr. Kevin Sheehan is the librarian/collections manager.

Photo by Thomas Shaw
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasshaw/2427272132/sizes/l/in/photostream/
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 09:37:11 AM »
Ahh! The mystery is solved!
Thanks,
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 10:08:07 AM »
Good sluething there John! 

Offline Millsman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2011, 11:40:28 AM »
Master and Commander is only book one of 21 novels about Captain Aubrey and his friend Dr. Maturin.Critics (NY Times, New Yorker, etc.) have often stated outright that " the best historical fiction ever written". If the British Navy during the period of the Napoleon and the War of 1812 and all the action you could ever wish for is your cup of tea I cannot recommend highly enough !  If you liked the movie I can guarantee you will enjoy the books. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey%E2%80%93Maturin_series

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2011, 04:09:54 PM »
I refuse to read number 21, if i do then the series ends...I have read the other 20.

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2011, 04:36:09 PM »
When I was in my teens I really liked C.S. Forester's Hornblower series.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Double D

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Re: Master and Commander
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2011, 05:26:03 PM »
When I was in my teens I really liked C.S. Forester's Hornblower series.

C.S.Forest and Alexander Kent (Douglas Reeman) are among my favorites of this genre.  Did you know the C.S.Forester wrote African Queen.  Bogart and Hepburn were great in the movie, but you would barely recognize them in the book.