Author Topic: Penetration (Read 2027 times)

Cheesehead · « **on:** September 12, 2011, 04:12:02 PM »

How many gallon water jugs will a 45 ACP hollow point penetrate?

Cheese

KAYR1 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 12, 2011, 04:20:04 PM »

Hard to say...Lots of variables like barrel length, velocity, bullet weight and construction, etc. If you like penetration without expansion, then a hard-cast LSW is tough to beat, but it isnt a hollow point. I've had good pentration with Gold Dots and Cor-Bon factory ammo out of my 5" 1911s. I'm sure there are lots more choices that will produce good results. WIth the prices of ammo these days, testing a lot of factory loads can get prety pricey, but hey, it is fun!

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2011, 02:53:22 AM »

KAYR1: actually, it may not be the price of all the ammo one might have to test as it is the price of the gallons of water or milk one would have to drink to get the number of gallon water jugs you will need for testing. I did that once for testing a 38 Spl and lemme tellya buddy, I have lots of strong bones and healthy teeth. Just try drinking 6 gallons of skim milk for a test. My kidneys work, too.

Cheese ol buddy - whatcha want a hp in a 45 for? Do ya think GI ball or a hardcast swc won't work?

And KAYR - if you run a steady diet of Gold Dots and corbons through your 1911s, and you do not yet reload, please consider the later as there is absolutely nothing from either source you mentioned that you cannot duplicate or exceed with handloads. jmtcw.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2011, 03:12:06 AM »

Gosh, Mikey, it sounds like you know your stuff....! Good answer!

reliquary · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2011, 04:38:57 AM »

The only one I've ever tested was the heavy Silvertip. 225?230?...too lazy to go look at the box.

At 10', which was just out of splatter range, it shattered the first two and some fragments put small holes in the third one. I couldn't tell any difference in the effect from the Commander or the full-size RIA.

GI ball burst the first one pretty nicely, not so much on the second and third ones, holed and stayed in the fourth one.

We drink a lot of milk and decaf tea and save the jugs for rainwater (and funsies).

Cheesehead · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2011, 05:03:21 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on September 15, 2011, 02:53:22 AM

KAYR1: actually, it may not be the price of all the ammo one might have to test as it is the price of the gallons of water or milk one would have to drink to get the number of gallon water jugs you will need for testing. I did that once for testing a 38 Spl and lemme tellya buddy, I have lots of strong bones and healthy teeth. Just try drinking 6 gallons of skim milk for a test. My kidneys work, too.

Cheese ol buddy - whatcha want a hp in a 45 for? Do ya think GI ball or a hardcast swc won't work?

And KAYR - if you run a steady diet of Gold Dots and corbons through your 1911s, and you do not yet reload, please consider the later as there is absolutely nothing from either source you mentioned that you cannot duplicate or exceed with handloads. jmtcw.

I cast my own, by the 1000's and use them for action target and paper punching. Just happpen to have some Black Talons and want to test them. So maybe four jugs, better bring five.

Cheese

KAYR1 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:45:16 PM »

I reload extensively for all of my guns. I dont cast bullets, but have found a relatively cheap source on-line for 200gr. LSWCs. I do test the factory stuff, and that is what I carry in my "street" and "house" guns. Really, it is the only way to feed my habit of shooting, but even reloading isnt as cheap as it once was, unfortunately.

1911crazy · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2011, 03:29:10 PM »

Mikey knows his stuff for sure.

If i use any other 45acp ammo than my own reloads its the silver tip winchester 45acp ammo for ccw carry. At the range its my reloads and the new wolf ball ammo. In shooting one water jug she tears them up at 25yds i never tried stacking them in a row.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2011, 06:27:21 PM »

I have finally collected 5 jugs. I will test soon.

Cheese

Mikey · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2011, 02:23:56 AM »

Well, this is certainly interesting. GI hardball barely makes it through 4 one gallon milk jugs but a 200 gn cast swc at just 700'/sec from a snub nosed 38 makes it all the way through 6 of them. No wonder the Brits, and Charles Askins liked the 38/200 so much.....

Bill/Crazy: stack those milk jugs and see if you duplicate Reliquary's penetration results. This shold be interesting.

I ran some penetration tests some years agon with the 45 - shot 3 different slugs over the same powder charge to see what sort of penetration I would get. Used a chunk of telephone pole about 12-18" deep. All the slugs penetrated to the same depth, about 6-7". The round nose ball stopped when it began to yaw, but the two different swc slugs, one hardcast and one full metal jacketed both stayed straight on. I have not yet tested those loads on one gallon milk jugs but as soon as I get some kids to visit and bake some cookies I know I will be able to beging stocking up on empty milk jugs.....

drdougrx · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2011, 05:11:08 AM »

Mikey...you are funny....so how many empty cans od guinness does a 45acp slug penetrate??? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Really though...we should do a hog hunt with our best SD load in our 45acps and see on real tissue what they do....

reliquary · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2011, 10:17:58 AM »

I'm interested in y'alls' results as well. Particularly the Black Felon...oops, I mean the Black Talon. I've got one box in my "collectibles" locker and don't want to break it up.

I have some hardcast 200-gr SWC over 6 grains of Unique that I'll run through the Commander next time I run into a bunch of jugs that seem to be threatening to gang up on me. Never thought about them on the first test.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2011, 04:44:57 PM »

Today, I went to the range with 5 gallon jugs of water, and my Springfield Longslide. I lined the jugs up on a table and took aim at five feet. I had no idea how wet I was going to get. The first jug vaporized. The bullet did penetrate a total of 2 and a half jugs. I did manage to get 2 rounds off before the third jug emptied and recovered both slugs. One was the perfect expanded slug, talons and all. The second slug had jacket separation but also penetrated 2.5 jugs. I will post pics of recovered slugs later.

Cheese

reliquary · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2011, 12:18:44 PM »

Thanks, cheesehead.

I would like to point out that, in my first post, I mentioned that 10' was just out of splatter range....=).

Cheesehead · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2011, 03:06:56 PM »

Quote from: reliquary link=topic=240913.msg 1099386410#msg 1099386410 date=1317507524

Thanks, cheesehead.

I would like to point out that, in my first post, I mentioned that 10' was just out of splatter range....=).

Yup, I missed the 10' thing. I will read your posts thoroughly in the future.

I had the entire first gallon on me.

Cheese

reliquary · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2011, 04:17:39 PM »

Well, I'll have to admit that I let my grandson take the first shot at a single jug from about 5'. With the Silvertip, all that was left was the flat bottom of the jug sitting on the ground and one surprised, wet, young man. Then I did my thing from further back.

I don't hunt any more, but most of my family still does, and a couple of them have agreed to let me run a Silvertip through the rib cage of one of the deer they kill, after they hang it up. Should be interesting.

Mikey · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2011, 03:22:39 AM »

Doug: You're on! I have been checking out the various preserves and the one I mentioned earlier about 30 minutes south of Utica is pretty sparce on accomodations (trailers rather than constructed camps) and basswoods Lodge is 4 hrs away and much further for you. We may have to hit Wild Hill again, which would not be bad; now, if they would only let us hunt together as a pair it would be alright and if we can cook that would be good too.

Now, if I can just hit what the hay I'm pointin' at I'll be alright..........

drdougrx · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2011, 04:26:17 AM »

I'd drive to NY! WTH...why not. We'll keep in touch....maybe have a few more GB guys to join in the fun!

MAX Penetration · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2011, 08:35:21 AM »

Can I try?

gray wolf · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2011, 02:38:34 PM »

45 acp--
pistol= Springfield 1911-A1 loaded
Brass=used
Primer = Wolf LP
Powder = Hodgon Long shot--Start =6 gr. Max = 6.8
6.5 gr. for testing, 3/10 under Max.
Bullet = Speer 230 gold dot
Velocity= 850 F P S
Long shot powder was used for it's ability to give high
velocity with pressure well within acceptable limits.
Test was 5 water jugs filled to the very top in order to eliminate as much air as possible in the Jug.
Distance was 8 feet, one small hand towel was draped over the jugs in order to control the water splash.
It also simulated one layer of clothing.
The test was performed 3 times and all results were the same.
Penetration was 3 complete jugs with the bullet coming to rest in the 4th jug.
Complete slugs were recovered showing total expansion of the petals down to the bottom of the hollow point cavity. All petals were intact and the lead core remained bonded to the copper jacket.
There was zero core jacket separation.
As a side note --the slugs were very impressive to look
at, and performed as expected.
If I am ever called on to kill water jugs I think Gold dots would be a good choice.

GW.

Mikey · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2011, 01:59:10 AM »

MAX: Where are you located??

MAX Penetration · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2011, 07:09:16 AM »

Cheesehead · « **Reply #22 on:** October 04, 2011, 11:38:56 AM »

Recovered slugs

reliquary · « **Reply #23 on:** October 04, 2011, 04:30:16 PM »

Wow! Those are impressive....

palgeno · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2011, 04:31:25 PM »

A'int killin milk jugs fun? Stoke some 200 gr lswc up with 9.0 gr Power pistol and you can kill a bunch of 'em all lined up. The Hornady 200 gr xtp won't go through as many, but they will kill a hog real good.
Gene

myronman3 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2011, 06:04:16 AM »

next time, try it at 2.5 feet and see if there is a difference......

bagdadjoe · « **Reply #26 on:** November 13, 2011, 04:15:52 AM »

About a jug and a half with my "ballistic tips". That would be XTP's with bond-dough in the cavity, shaped to hardball contour with sandpaper. Works great, complete expansion. I carry one in the chamber although I haven't had feeding problems with them.
On the other hand, a 22magnum "hollow point" from my puny little NAA revolver went through 4 and kept on truckin'. I finally recovered one, unchanged, just like it left the gun in a 5th jug. I changed to factory ballistic tips for it.

Problem solved. 'Course if penetration is your only parameter...

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2012, 08:11:52 AM »

I'd like to kill a wild hog or some other useless critter and stuff his meat into a milk jug. Cut it in strips and pack it in with a screwdriver handle or something. Better than that would to put some clothes on the meat-packed jug including a winter coat.

reliquary · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2012, 04:21:46 PM »

A couple or three years ago, I found a grocery-store-bought turkey in my freezer that had been overlooked for a while. It was so freezer-burned that I didn't even try to salvage it. Just thawed it, hung it up in front of the backstop, and put a Silvertip through the center of the breast. Very impressive exit hole; that's what convinced me to use them as a carry cartridge.

There are landowning folks in my area who just kill the feral pigs and drag them into the woodline to let the coyotes remove them. Perhaps you could ask around your area and find one who would call you the next time he killed a hog, so you could come out and test your slugs on a whole carcass? I've done that with some stone-tipped arrows I made.

1911crazy · « **Reply #29 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:14:48 AM »

I decintergrated 1 gallon milk jugs with my 45acp at 20yds using my reloaded 200gr soup bowel hollow points from speer pumped up to the max. In my wet sand test back in the late 70's the bullet also performed well. But do to the legality stand point i carry the winchester silver tips now. But in the wilds its my reloads. Upon entry in a animals skull the 200gr soup bowel speer hollow points makes a entry hole almost the size of a half dollar right thru the bone on a feral dog running deer. But on a thicker skull it may not work.