??? First Cap/Ball Revolver???

[czvz]

Hello, thinking about a new obsession, What make model cap/ball revolver would you reccommend?  What is the difference between the 1858 and the 1860 Army revolvers?
And lastly, what are the "Must have Doo-Dads"" to start the addiction?
 
thanx
CZVZ

[Nobade]

If you don't have to be historically correct, get a Ruger Old Army. By far the best C&B revolver out there.

Difference in 1860 and 1858? The 1860 handles fouling better and runs longer without binding up. But it comes apart in the middle, so is not as strong and if it's not fitted properly will give you problems. And for me at least it fits my hand better and points correctly.

The 1858 normally gives less problems with fitting, because of its solid frame. It is more subject to cap jams. You need to keep the cylinder base pin well greased to keep it turning. It's usually more accurate and has better sights.

That's a very quick rundown, others can provide much more information. As for must haves, you need balls, powder, wads or grease, and caps. Not much else needed. Oh yeah, shooting glasses and ear plugs. You can smear grease over the balls once they are loaded, or better yet follow Gatofeo's threads here about where to get felt, how to make lube, and use wads under the balls. Much cleaner and keeps the bore clean.

There are lots of good threads here to read, and after that you'll have a good handle on what is involved. C&B revolvers are good fun, cheap to feed, and very satisfying once you learn how to manage them. My only other parting advise is USE REAL BLACK POWDER! and save yourself a bunch of hassle.

[Fingers McGee]

Before you buy anything, read Proper use of a cap and ball revolver by Gatofeo at the head of this page.  Then attend the nearest CAS match and see who's shooting what.  Try out as many different revolvers as possible.  If that doesnt pan out, handle different models at your local Bass Pro, Cabelas or other store that sells blackpowder revolvers.   
 
While I am a died in the wool Colt revolver fan & collector.  The cheapest and easiest way to get started in C&B revolvers is to buy a brass framed Remington.  Colt styled revolvers can be quirky and hard to get running properly, whereas the Remingtons are almost foolproof.
 

[Bigeasy]

Another vote for the Ruger Old Army, which is basically an updated version of the Remington solid frame revolver.  This design allows for easier cylinder removal, and I think is a little stronger and potentially more accurate then the Colt style revolvers.
 
You are going to need caps, lead balls, lube, as well as a powder measuring tool, and a cleaning kit.  Some folks like to place a cardboard or thin fibre wadd between the bullet and powder, as this may increase accuracy and reduce the chance of chain firing.  You must place lube in the cylinder mouths both to prevent leading, and prevent other chambers from firing do to powder flash.
 
Some use BP only, but I have used Pyrodex without issue.  I like non petroleum, natural lubes, like Bore Butter, or Pyro Lube, as they seem to keep the fouling soft, and help keep the weapon from binding up as it gets dirty.  Cleaning with hot soapy water works well, along with a final coat of protective oil, or natural lube.
 
Plenty of detailed info available on line.
 
Larry

[Fingers McGee]

You must place lube in the cylinder mouths both to prevent leading, and prevent other chambers from firing do to powder flash.
 
Larry

I respectfully disagree with this admonition.  I have shot 1000 to 1500 rounds a year for the past 12 years out of Colt style C&B revolvers in CAS competition and have never used lube over the ball.  My pistols do not lead up, and have not had any chainfires

[sidewinder319]

If you want a shooter get a Ruger Old Army. These are fine modern handguns based on the Rogers & Spencer design. I shoot the Lee .456 220 gr bullet with triple 7 and Remington Caps. The ROA can be used with a .45 Colt cylinder with modern loads. If you want to experience the old designs there are many Colt and Remington copies to choose from. I like the Rodgers & Spencer which also uses the .456 balls or bullets.

[Bigeasy]

You must place lube in the cylinder mouths both to prevent leading, and prevent other chambers from firing do to powder flash.
 
Larry

I respectfully disagree with this admonition.  I have shot 1000 to 1500 rounds a year for the past 12 years out of Colt style C&B revolvers in CAS competition and have never used lube over the ball.  My pistols do not lead up, and have not had any chainfires

 
 
 
No disrespect taken.  I figured better safe then sorry.  It's something I have heard for years from other shooters since my first C&B revolver in the mid 70's.  Cant really say about the leading issue for sure, as I do not usually shoot lead balls with out lube applied to the chamber mouths.  Going on hear-say on that one.  Any other firearm firing a lead projectile requires lube to reduce leading, and keep fouling soft in the case of BP, so I am not sure how this would be any different.
 
I do know that chainfires can occur, as I did have one happen years ago shooting dry with a .44 cal Remington 1858, with the ball along side the fired chamber firing.  Now how a spark can get by a slightly swaged ball in another chamber to fire, I don't know, but it happened.  Never happened with lube / grease applied to the loaded chamber mouths, over the ball.
 
Larry

[tpelle]

You must place lube in the cylinder mouths both to prevent leading, and prevent other chambers from firing do to powder flash.
 
Larry

I respectfully disagree with this admonition.  I have shot 1000 to 1500 rounds a year for the past 12 years out of Colt style C&B revolvers in CAS competition and have never used lube over the ball.  My pistols do not lead up, and have not had any chainfires

 
 
 
No disrespect taken.  I figured better safe then sorry.  It's something I have heard for years from other shooters since my first C&B revolver in the mid 70's.  Cant really say about the leading issue for sure, as I do not usually shoot lead balls with out lube applied to the chamber mouths.  Going on hear-say on that one.  Any other firearm firing a lead projectile requires lube to reduce leading, and keep fouling soft in the case of BP, so I am not sure how this would be any different.
 
I do know that chainfires can occur, as I did have one happen years ago shooting dry with a .44 cal Remington 1858, with the ball along side the fired chamber firing.  Now how a spark can get by a slightly swaged ball in another chamber to fire, I don't know, but it happened.  Never happened with lube / grease applied to the loaded chamber mouths, over the ball.
 
Larry

Most chain-fires are the result of the flash from one chamber coming back through the flash hold, blowing the just-fired cap to fragments, then traveling up the side of a loosely-fitting cap on the adjacent chamber and setting it off.  Sometimes a poorly-fitting cap that has not yet been fired may simply come off under recoil, leaving the powder charge under that nipple exposed.

The most sure way to prevent chain-fires is to make sure that the caps and nipples that you use are matched to each other.  The skirt on the cap should be a friction fit on the nipple.

It should not be necessary to pinch the cap to make it stay on, because doing so means you have an oval-shaped cap on a cylindrical or cone-shaped nipple, leaving two open invitations, one on each side of the cap skirt, for a chain fire to happen.

[sidewinder319]

I have never understood this chain fire fear?? It is one of those yarns that goes along with owning a BP revolver. It is very very rare. And if it did happen you most likely wouldn't even know it. And who would believe that Crisco could stop a very high temperature powder flame from entering a chamber mouth?? Hell Crisco smokes out grilling a cheese sandwhich.  As stated if it did occur it would be the flint lock effect where heat passing a nipple vent set the chamber powder off. Mcgee is correct you can shoot just fine with out any lube.  I shoot paper so I add a little lube to keep the fouling soft while shooting 5 shot strings.

[czvz]

Are  Ruger Old Armie's still being manufactured?  Should I stay away from the Italian made revolvers on sale @ Cabellas?  There isn't many stores locally that deals in BP revolvers so my options are somewhat limited.
 
Thanx
CZVZ

[AtlLaw]

Are  Ruger Old Armie's still being manufactured?

I don't think so, but then I haven't checked... 
 

Should I stay away from the Italian made revolvers on sale @ Cabellas?

I don't know as it makes any different who sells a product, I'd look at any seller that has what I want.  Now as far as manufacturers go, up until the last couple of weeks I would have said I prefer, as if anyone cares what I prefer    , Uberti's.  But that was only based on a comparason of my two Uberti's against my one Pietta.   
 
Hi-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,    in the last couple a three weeks I have had to send two new Uberti's back to the supplier.  There's another thread or two around here if you're interested in the details.
 
A Uberti '51 Navy is enroute to me as we speak so we'll see if the third time is a charm. 
 
OH!  And I think Cabellas sells mostly Piettas.  Matter of fact, I think I bought my Pietta 1860 Army on sale from Cabellas.

[Gatofeo]

Read my post, "Proper Use of Cap and Ball Revolver" above. It will answer many questions.
That said, let me reiterate or add:
I had a brass-framed reproduction of the 1851 Colt, in the unauthentic .44 caliber, in the early 1970s.
On three separate occasions I experienced multiple ignition with it.In those days I used a .451" ball, Remington caps, DuPont FFFG black powder and Crisco slathered over each ball.
I discount the use of lubricant over the ball as a remedy for multiple ignitions. I used to believe it, but no longer do. I believe that multiple ignitions begin at the rear of the cylinder, when flame gets under a loose-fitting cap, or a loose cap falls off during handling or from recoil.
Since about 1975, I've used hard felt, made of wool, soaked in lubricant and seated on the powder under the ball. Long ago, I'd scrounge for old hats as a source of wool felt. Today, I buy sheets of hard, 100 percent wool felt from Durofelt. The price is right, I can make thousands of wads, and shipping is free within the continental U.S.
For nearly 40 years I've also pinched the caps into an elliptical shape, so they have a springiness that keeps them on the nipple when seated. Yes, I use properly fitting nipples but I still pinch the caps into a slight elliptical. I believe in it; old habits die hard I guess.
I also balls of .454 or 457 inch. If the revolver is properly made, this is no undue strain on the rammer. If it's a piece of junk, made by gunsmith apprentices on a Monday, it may result in damage.
I would not buy a brass-framed revolver. More often than not, they are of poor quality.
Yes, there are poorly made steel-framed revolvers out there, but brass-framed ones outweigh them. Having a brass-framed revolver means you should not load it to its full potential, because such heavy loads cause premature wear and tear.
Spend the extra $20 to $60 and get a steel-framed revolver.
If money is no object, get a Remington-patterned .44 made of stainless steel. Shooters new to cap and ball revolvers tend to avoid the cleaning required, or fail to do it well. Stainless steel will rust eventually, but it's more forgiving.
I would go with the .44 because oversized balls for it are readily availble: .454 or, if you can't find those, .457 inch.