Author Topic: Are Coyotes Killing Your Deer? (Read 3604 times)

markc · « **on:** September 14, 2011, 03:53:57 AM »

From an Outdoor Life Magazine online article. I am no expert, but I am not sure I agree with everything said in the article. What do you think? Below is only a portion of page 2 of the article.

Are Coyotes Killing Your Deer? Coyotes get blamed for everything from fawn predation in the spring to decreased deer sightings in the fall. But are the claims valid? Article by Bob Butz No Stopping Them
Biologists have determined that recreational predator calling and the shoot-on-sight approach taken by hunters who believe they’re doing something good for deer have, in fact, no lasting impact at all. Sometimes it can even have the opposite effect, since killing coyotes actually works to stimulate coyote reproduction.
This explains in part why coyotes have been able to thrive and expand their range despite more than a century’s worth of calculated human effort to exterminate them. Despite our having lived alongside the coyote for so long, most of the more interesting biological discoveries about them have come to light only through recent research. While coyote population dynamics, habits and impact on prey species—namely deer—can differ from state to state, below are a few things about coyotes we know for certain.

Coyotes by the Numbers
500,000: Current estimated number of coyotes killed annually by government-funded predator-control programs, trappers, hunters and ranchers
2,000: Estimated coyote population in Chicago
75: Percentage of coyotes that would have to be removed annually to cause a decrease in their general population
22: Percentage of Maine coyotes found to have wolf genes
1-3: Miles, average range of a coyote

What I find really interesting is the statement that killing a coyote stimulates yote reproduction. Certainly the one I just shot is not stimulated to reproduce. So what mechanism causes the remainder of the pack to suddenly begin to reproduce, as if they were not already reproducing? How the "experts" determined that is of interest to me. If by a contained zoo population of yotes, can it be said that yotes in the wild will have exactly the same reproductive behaviors?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2011, 04:21:08 AM »

I think it stimulates because if you reduce the pack it's more food for the rest. Better fed females will have more and healthier pups that survive.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2011, 05:59:02 AM »

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/vecase/behavior/Spring2004/holmberg/Holmberg.html

If you have a buyer in the area, you can get anywhere from $5.00 to $12.00 in the round (unskinned) for coyotes. Pays for the gas/ammo/caller over time and it’s enjoyable for some of us.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:00:47 AM »

50 dollar bounty was offered in some counties in Va.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2011, 06:59:34 AM »

Simply "NO...."!

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #5 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:16:07 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on September 14, 2011, 06:00:47 AM

50 dollar bounty was offered in some counties in Va.

That's some serious cash and I would think whatever problem was causing the bounty offer was probably taken care of in short order. I remember back in the late 50's when mink ranchers paid from $0.50 to $1.00 per jackrabbit - their population took a nose dive and kept most of us youngsters in pocket money during the winter months.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #6 on:** September 15, 2011, 04:28:34 AM »

I do not think that they are a very efficient predator for deer but they do have some good tricks.

Personal observations of kills were the time I was following both sets of tracks (deer & yote) around the base of a large hill. When the tracks reached the south most part off the hill, the deer was ran straight up the steepest part and into a gully caused by rain wash which spelled doom for the young doe.

I saw this happen again along a creek. This is crossable in most places along a three mile stretch but the deer was funneled to the deepest and steepest area where the banks are a good 12'-15' high on either side. The kill was again, a yearling doe. I have more examples of this but I will omit them due to lenght.

Quote

What I find really interesting is the statement that killing a coyote stimulates yote reproduction. Certainly the one I just shot is not stimulated to reproduce. So what mechanism causes the remainder of the pack to suddenly begin to reproduce, as if they were not already reproducing? How the "experts" determined that is of interest to me. If by a contained zoo population of yotes, can it be said that yotes in the wild will have exactly the same reproductive behaviors?

Many a good article has been written on the reproduction. An old thought that the sportsman can varifiy is that litters are based on the avalible game. You have a lot of rabbits, for example, your Red Fox litters will increase and vice versa.

Much research has been done on the Coyotes with the data coming from the government hunters with Planes, Copters, and time at their disposal. In short, it was found that if you kill a lot of them, you will get a lot back!...With that being said, and with the live stock farmer in mind, suggestions are that it is better to "manage" the Coyote population instead of trying to eradicate them which just wont happen unless we would have the likes of an Atomic blast.

Quote

Biologists have determined that recreational predator calling and the shoot-on-sight approach taken by hunters who believe they’re doing something good for deer have, in fact, no lasting impact at all. Sometimes it can even have the opposite effect, since killing coyotes actually works to stimulate coyote reproduction

I do not have an answer for this an perhaps collectively, it is so.

I certainly am not worried about it. Fact is that the average sucess rate for a predator blind is one kill for every ten calling sites. This can be improved upon by experience and changing up on calls (such as the Howler language) and more. My recommendations are to have fun out there and take what you can get!...this calling is a disease you know and once it gets in your blood, it just wont leave.

markc · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2011, 02:26:52 PM »

Thank you for the replies. I have limited experience calling yotes and have only shot 4 in my years of hunting, although 3 have come in the last year. Regardless of the article, I doubt I will ever let a coyote pass by without taking a shot.

hillbill · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2011, 03:14:08 PM »

seems i read a article, can remember in what mag, maybe field and stream. where they radio collared pregnant does. i think it was in the carolinas.they said that coyotes were responsible for like 60% of fawn fatalities.maybe more.in fact i think it was 60% of fawns born were eatin by yotes.in this particular study.they captured the pregnant does and inserted transmitters that would be ejected upon birthing.it was very scary to say the least.but coyotes are very smart,in the last 20 yrs ive shot every one thats showed up around here in the daylight.they dont show up around here in the daylight anymore, period.like i said yotes are smart, ive seen them walk thru herds of deer, they make a lil run at them and if they all act healthy they move on.dont think they cant smell afterbirth and a fawn

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2011, 09:30:30 AM »

When I came to this country 40 years ago, coyotes were seldom seen, lions were a thing of the past, and golden eagles were rare...now all three are common and our deer herd is at an all time low...predators don't eat air..there are no jacks, and no cottotails...due to predation...one thing we have learned in this valley is the person who knows the least about game management is the the biologist...they do not open their eyes and look around at what can be readily seen by anyone who spends time in the outdoors.....Instead of first hand observation, they rely on text books or their computer..one time several years ago, I spotted a bighorn in a desert area of this state...I stopped and called the area game and fish and talked with the biologist...told him what I had seen and exactly where...he reply was, you didn't see a sheep there, because my computer tells me they are not there..

I am sure there are good biologists, but I also know, when predators were scarce, deer, rabbits, and game in general was plentiful...Biologists are government workers..they are interested in not rocking the boat, covering their tails, and looking good to the general public...they will tell the story that best fits their needs at the time, and honestly, I have no faith in their judgments...whether they live in Wyo. or Penna. Mich. or Tx...

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2011, 02:48:22 PM »

Irregardless of what the game biologists say I will continue to shoot on sight coyotes. I dont shoot fox or bobcats,just coyotes. The only good coyote is a dead coyote. I will beleive this to my dying day,that coyotes were released here in MS by the game and fish biologist. I have no basis for this beleif except that I dont trust any branch of gov't. When I was a youngster we had NO coyotes. Today we have them in abundance. I do enjoy the hunt,it keeps my trigger finger in good shape for deer season.

hillbill · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2011, 03:29:52 PM »

Quote from: rugerfan.64 on November 04, 2011, 02:48:22 PM

Irregardless of what the game biologists say I will continue to shoot on sight coyotes. I dont shoot fox or bobcats,just coyotes. The only good coyote is a dead coyote. I will beleive this to my dying day,that coyotes were released here in MS by the game and fish biologist. I have no basis for this beleif except that I dont trust any branch of gov't. When I was a youngster we had NO coyotes. Today we have them in abundance. I do enjoy the hunt,it keeps my trigger finger in good shape for deer season.

are yu seeing any fox?i set several fox traps in the last couple years and am not catching any.the coyotes are rampant here. im thinking they have pushed out the fox.i do see a few bobcats, more than ever, but no fox.

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2011, 04:57:59 PM »

The strange thing is this past spring there was a vixen with 3 kits that made their home about a mile from my house. I had seen them several times,my wife,brothers had all seen them. I thought it very odd that they would be here because I thought we had alot of coyotes. The fox (reds) have been thinned by vehicles but I still see them from time to time or rather the remainder of them. I think there should be 3 left that we havent seen on the road. The coyotes moved in pretty thick when the weather cooled off so its still early to tell. I wont shoot a red fox,have shot several grays mistaking them for coyotes cause I dont check that close. If it looks like a yote it goes down. I've killed 2 this past week behind the house and I know theres one left cause I got the call out last night and got it to talking.Darn coyotes.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:14:18 AM »

Speaking for central Kansas, we have plenty of both. If coyotes are killing any deer, they are not killing enough of them since we still are having plenty of deer/vehicle accidents.
GuzziJohn

DANNY-L · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2011, 03:59:36 AM »

They take alot of them here in northern ny,like last winter when we had 40+ inches of snow that lasted for over 2 months. Not like many states ny has a season on when you can take coyotes. Stupid if ya ask me.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #15 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:09:27 AM »

the latest issue of georgia-outdoor-news has game camera pictures of a pack killing a spike buck.
plus UGA has done studies proving that yotes get a large portion of fawns.

mcbammer · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:32:50 AM »

MY STATE BIOLOGIST JUST COMPLETED A RABIES PROGRAM IN A FEW COUNTIES ';WHERE THEY DROP THOUSANDS OF VACCINE INJECTED BAIT . I THINK WE SHOULD LET NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE . YOTES SEEM TO DO QUIET WELL WITH OUT ANY HELP FROM MAN .

DANNY-L · « **Reply #17 on:** November 08, 2011, 10:51:53 AM »

Quote from: Wyo. Coyote Hunter on September 25, 2011, 09:30:30 AM

When I came to this country 40 years ago, coyotes were seldom seen, lions were a thing of the past, and golden eagles were rare...now all three are common and our deer herd is at an all time low...predators don't eat air..there are no jacks, and no cottotails...due to predation...one thing we have learned in this valley is the person who knows the least about game management is the the biologist...they do not open their eyes and look around at what can be readily seen by anyone who spends time in the outdoors.....Instead of first hand observation, they rely on text books or their computer..one time several years ago, I spotted a bighorn in a desert area of this state...I stopped and called the area game and fish and talked with the biologist...told him what I had seen and exactly where...he reply was, you didn't see a sheep there, because my computer tells me they are not there.. I am sure there are good biologists, but I also know, when predators were scarce, deer, rabbits, and game in general was plentiful...Biologists are government workers..they are interested in not rocking the boat, covering their tails, and looking good to the general public...they will tell the story that best fits their needs at the time, and honestly, I have no faith in their judgments...whether they live in Wyo. or Penna. Mich. or Tx...

You must have been reading my mind for the past 20yrs cause I couldn't agree more.

mechanic · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2011, 11:34:02 AM »

In Georgia Outdoor News magazine is a brief article with trail cam photos of coyotes pulling down and killing an adult deer. They are learning to hunt in the style of wolves. How prevalent this is I have no idea.

Ben

kansasj · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2011, 02:46:24 PM »

We are having a "yote" epidemic here in central Kansas. Check out the photo where I caught 5 yotes in one still shot from a trail cam. (what is the odds of that?) Lots of reports of yotes chasing adult does etc. Once they get the numbers up they can resort to the pack thing at which they and wolves are the best at hunting. All the old coyote hunters and trappers have either died or do not think it worth the hassle to hunt and get permission etc.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2011, 10:14:37 AM »

I drive about 70 miles round trip to work, almost all rural. Today I saw 11 deer and two coyotes. The coyote I saw this afternoon was the largest I have ever seen as it ran across the road about 30-40 yards ahead of me. It looked the size of a typical German Shepard.
GuzziJohn

mechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2011, 10:37:21 AM »

In the Alabama Outdoor News magazine this month, it states that 14 fawns were collared at Ft. Rucker, Ala. and released. Three survived, coyotes got the rest. Some of the numbers of harvested deer tell the story, from several hundred 10 yrs. ago, to less than a hundred last year.

Ben

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2011, 01:57:51 PM »

I know what wild dogs will do to a calf,for that matter what yard dogs will do to a calf. I know what to do about those too. I shot coyote #3 last Sunday morning,so the 3 that I have on game camera pics are all accounted for. Deer season is upon us now so the yotes will be safe from calling until Feb 1. If I do see one its a shot at son of a gun. If it lives it wont be from lack of trying on my part. As far as vacinating yotes for rabies,thats a 2 headed coin for sure. I have dogs and cats,and a small daughter,so for their sake I dont want rabid yotes around. The flip side of that is I hate yotes and dont care how they die. Just my .02 cents worth.

backstrap · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2011, 01:35:13 PM »

Here in north central Ok i know of two farmers last year losen baby calves to coyotes,one called in a state trapper and caught 6 on his farm, and the other farmer called me to come out to his place but didnt end up haven time to go out and call,i think they do kill fawns around here where i live, but there are so many deer around this part of the country you cant tell it,when a doe has twins all the time you dont notice a few missing.

ihookem · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2011, 01:26:03 PM »

If some think yotes don't kill deer they kill big deer too. Go to a sight called lake-link.com scroll down to forums, scroll down to big game hunting, scroll down to "any trail cam pics here till you get to the date 11/11/11 11: 36 pm. You will see a big buck in velvet being killed by a few small coyotes. I will always shoot a coyote.

tobster · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2011, 01:23:49 AM »

Quote from: hillbill on November 04, 2011, 03:29:52 PM

Quote from: rugerfan.64 on November 04, 2011, 02:48:22 PM
Irregardless of what the game biologists say I will continue to shoot on sight coyotes. I dont shoot fox or bobcats,just coyotes. The only good coyote is a dead coyote. I will beleive this to my dying day,that coyotes were released here in MS by the game and fish biologist. I have no basis for this beleif except that I dont trust any branch of gov't. When I was a youngster we had NO coyotes. Today we have them in abundance. I do enjoy the hunt,it keeps my trigger finger in good shape for deer season.
[/quote"]are yu seeing any fox?i set several fox traps in the last couple years and am not catching any.the coyotes are rampant here. im thinking they have pushed out the fox.i do see a few bobcats, more than ever, but no fox."
FWIW- I once read an article stating that coyotes will kill and run off foxes when they move into an area. This results in more small game because foxes are better at killing birds,small game, etc. than are the invading coyotes.

mcbammer · « **Reply #26 on:** November 16, 2011, 05:22:09 AM »

Quote from: tobster on November 16, 2011, 01:23:49 AM

Quote from: hillbill on November 04, 2011, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: rugerfan.64 on November 04, 2011, 02:48:22 PM
Irregardless of what the game biologists say I will continue to shoot on sight coyotes. I dont shoot fox or bobcats,just coyotes. The only good coyote is a dead coyote. I will beleive this to my dying day,that coyotes were released here in MS by the game and fish biologist. I have no basis for this beleif except that I dont trust any branch of gov't. When I was a youngster we had NO coyotes. Today we have them in abundance. I do enjoy the hunt,it keeps my trigger finger in good shape for deer season.
[/quote"]are yu seeing any fox?i set several fox traps in the last couple years and am not catching any.the coyotes are rampant here. im thinking they have pushed out the fox.i do see a few bobcats, more than ever, but no fox."
FWIW- I once read an article stating that coyotes will kill and run off foxes when they move into an area. This results in more small game because foxes are better at killing birds,small game, etc. than are the invading coyotes.

Maybe we should release some wolves to run the yotes off .

Ron 1 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2011, 07:11:01 AM »

i cant prove it.. but they are defently eatting them. look at there scat.
i have seen a few deer that were not shot in the best area. (the guts) that were ripped apart by day break.
rw

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2011, 06:15:29 AM »

Quote

Are Coyotes Killing Your Deer?

I believe they are; our deer numbers seem way down (this near Ral NC) and I've heard that a number of does on land I hunt were spotted this summer without fawns, assumption being coyotes got them.

I've never hunted coyotes, but I'd like to learn how. I'd never even SEEN on in the woods until this weekend, though I hear them every night. On Saturday, in the tree, 7:10am... smallish doe comes out of the cutover into the hardwoods, her flag up, clearly on alert. I bleated, she kept going. Then I hear something else coming from the same direction. Oh boy, I'm thinking, here comes her boyfriend... but who shows up but a coyote, hot on her trail. I shot the coyote. He was tough; I hit him with 30-30 quartering away, huge exit at sternum and a front leg blown off, and he still covered about 50 yards leaving a huge blood trail. He was about 40 pounds, big jaws and head. Mean critters, coyotes.

Tommyt · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:53:21 AM »

Quote from: ihookem on November 13, 2011, 01:26:03 PM

If some think yotes don't kill deer they kill big deer too. Go to a sight called lake-link.com scroll down to forums, scroll down to big game hunting, scroll down to "any trail cam pics here till you get to the date 11/11/11 11: 36 pm. You will see a big buck in velvet being killed by a few small coyotes. I will always shoot a coyote.

I was able to copy one of those pictures I guess a pic is worth a 1000 words
orin this case 1000 yotes

Tommyt