Author Topic: Educate me on my new1968 TC Contender (45lc/410) (Read 2905 times)

one65r · « **on:** September 15, 2011, 08:41:58 AM »

Hey Guys, I've got an inherited TC Contender I was hoping yall could educate me on. I'm an avid firearm enthusiast and have owned/shot/collected all type of handguns and longguns (revolvers, semi, bolt, old, new), but I've never owned anything in the TC family. I'd welcome any info you could give me on this piece and let me know if's just a run of the mill Contender or if there is anything collectible/rare about it. It's got a Cougar on both sides. Caliber is 45lc/410. Barrel is 10" and is compensated (is this normal for this caliber?). I looked up the serial # and it appears it's from 1968, the second year of production. Serial # is 380_ (left off last digit). On the butt of the target grip, there is a ornamental plate, i guess to engrave your initials, but this one is blank. Is that standard also?

I'm looking forward to trying it out this weekend so I'd welcome any advise yall could offer. Obviously since it's 43 years old, I've already checked the barrel for obstructions and cleaned it before and will clean it afterwards. Any recommendations on the 45lc caliber? How far out can I expect to shoot this (with irons) before it starts dropping like a brick?

Regarding the 410, what type of load do people shoot out of this in 410? Will shot mess up the compensated area of the barrel? What do people use it for when shooting 410? It's be an awesome snake gun for going to the lake, but it just seems too nice for that.

Lastly, do vintage TC Contenders bring any more/less $ that modern variants? I know with most other old guns (if they have been well maintained-this one has), there is always added value. Is there a market/following for vintage versions of this? If so, anyone care to throw out what something like this would bring (minus the holster) in an unfired condition. When I received it, it was well oiled and honestly appears to have never been fired. The trigger is unbelievable (no, I didn't dry fire it) and I can't wait to try it out this weekend.

Thanks in advance for any input. Also, I have tried 3 times to make a post with attachments but it keeps giving me a server timeout.
Sincerely,
Sam

one65r · « **Reply #1 on:** September 15, 2011, 08:43:31 AM »

Ok, now I'll try to add pics. It kept locking up on my first 3 attempts to make that last post.

one65r · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2011, 08:45:50 AM »

Last post, I'm sorry to have split this up, but after 4 tries and having to retype my message, I was just troubleshooting to see if one of my pics was causing it to lock up.
And disregard the hang tag. I'm not a gun shop and this isn't from a gun shop. That's just how I got it and have since taken it off.

35ISIT · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2011, 05:14:22 AM »

I can't comment on added value because it is an older model. Other than to say some people like the older ones and may pay a little extra to have one.

Be sure to take the choke off before shooting 45 Long Colts through it. 410s won't hurt the compensator, it was designed to shoot shotshells.

Paladin · « **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:35:03 PM »

very nice contender. If the barrel is as old as the frame I think you'll find it is not a 410 barrel, I believe you have a hot shot barrel. it was made to shoot shot loads (45 colts loaded with a capsule of shot the choke broke up the capsule) I don't think a 410 will fit in the chamber, even a 2.5 in 410. 45 colts are usually not real accurate because of the long bullet jump. the only way to find out is to try it. good luck!!

dant · « **Reply #5 on:** September 16, 2011, 08:26:23 PM »

Nice older Contender. I used to have 5 very similar to the one you have. The earlier guns had the different style trigger guard and yours also has the little bit of extra etching behind the circle/cougar that the newer frames don't have.There is one on GunBroker right now with a buy it now price of 375, although it's been listed a few times and is a 44 with choke, the 45/410 would add a little value. Collectors generally are looking for ser numbers in the 1000-2000 range first year, first thousand made and will pay a premium. You may or may not encounter a fit problem with newer barrels if you try to put them on that frame. I sold mine to eliminate that problem as well as have the easy open feature. Actually have the G2's now. They're fun to shoot clay birds with the 410, might want to wear a good shooting glove when you do though. Those older guns are sweet looking, but the grip shape and curve of the trigger guard make harder recoiling rounds a bear to shoot..... shoot it and have fun !

Austin from NC · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2011, 12:20:48 AM »

That's a thang of beauty.

Austin

spinafish · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2011, 09:10:32 AM »

the last pic clearly shows 45 LC 410..

Ladobe · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2011, 02:47:24 PM »

one65r,
This is a Type 2, 45/410 Hot Shot barrel, which means it was made sometime during 1970-1972 (the only years the T2 was offered with this chamber). It was designed to shoot 45 Colt with the choke removed, and with the choke intalled 45 Colt brass loaded with TC Hot Shot capsules only. It was not designed to shoot .410 shotgun shells.
Larry

spinafish · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2011, 05:25:15 AM »

Listen to Ladobe..

one65r · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2011, 05:37:25 AM »

THANK YOU for all your input. I'm glad I didn't learn that one the hard way. Obviously I'm not into the Hot Shot capsule reloading, but I'll shoot some 45lc all day long. I wonder why they didn't make that a little more clear on the barrel? So is this a common barrel, or does that add any value to it because it's rare, or just make it an obsolete barrel? Anyone care to throw out a $ what something like this is worth? Thanks again for all of your help. Also, what about the ornamental plate on the bottom of the grip. It looks like you'd put your initials there. Is that normal?
-Sam

Ladobe · « **Reply #11 on:** September 19, 2011, 07:54:15 AM »

TC probably didn't feel the need to "make it more clear" at the time thinking most folks would know to come to them for what to shoot in them rather than thinking decades down the road as a new company. There were high numbers of Hot Shot barrels made, chambered for the 357MAG, 44MAG and 45 Colt, so they are not even close to rare or collectable. The shot capsules were borderline useless and for very close range only, so once the newness of the idea wore off interest in them pretty much went away. Their later 45/410 bull barrels that were designed for 410 shotgun shells replaced them, and are a much more viable and useable barrel for shot. The Hot Shot barrels are not obsolete as per se, just not highly regarded by most folks who wouldn't want them. TC's shot capsules are probably somewhat collectable now as they are long ago discontinued. Speer capsules could be bought, shot added to them and used to load and shoot these barrels if anybody thought the trouble and expense was worth it for what amounts to a toy. They need a fast powder at lower velocities to work at all though. The grip set you have is the basic original standard offering from TC. "Basic" as they did make this style with more than one profile during its first couple of years as if trying to decide which to keep as the standard. During this grip styles run they also had more than one style of cap on them as well. Engraving the caps would have been owner specific - I've seen very few that were engraved. It is also quite common to find grips with the factory caps from a different style/era mounted on them, and rarely with third party custom caps on them.

IMO - YMMV

Larry

one65r · « **Reply #12 on:** September 19, 2011, 08:23:24 AM »

Larry, thanks for taking the time to clue me in on the whole process. Now I'll be on the lookout for some 45 LC to try this out.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2011, 12:26:43 AM »

I've got one of the 45Colt HS barrels that Larry refered to. Mine only has 45Colt stamped on the side....no 410 in sight as on your barrel. Mine will chamber a 2 1/2" 410 that has not been fired...will not take a 3"....nor will it accept a fired 2 1/2". I was thinking that TC actually made a 45Colt/.410 barrel first but then soon disscontinued it at the request of the BATF...THEN produced the "hot shot" barrel. Believe me...I have a LOT more faith in Larry's memory and expierence than that of my own, but you may want to try chambering a few(2 1/2" and 3") 410 hulls just for kicks. I would try a fired hull with a fully unfurled crimp if possible

.
Walt

one65r · « **Reply #14 on:** September 20, 2011, 04:08:39 AM »

Ok, if it will hold it, should I try shooting a .410 through it? Do y'all think I can just call TC? Also, just to double confirm, I need to remove that choke before firing the 45lc? What about the threads where the choke piece screwed in? Will those threads get damaged?-sam

Bill,SC · « **Reply #15 on:** September 20, 2011, 06:52:21 AM »

Check the chamber. My 1968 barrel in 45/410 does shoot the 3" shell. Yes, that is the way T/C made them.

Ladobe · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2011, 09:17:57 AM »

Quote from: one65r on September 20, 2011, 04:08:39 AM

Ok, if it will hold it, should I try shooting a .410 through it? Do y'all think I can just call TC?

It's your barrel and your body, so only you can decide. I wouldn't consider it or trust any comments made here without first calling TC (but good luck getting anybody there that knows much now days). A better idea would be to contact the TCA. Tell them it is a Type 2 Hot Shot barrel for sure, and is presumed to be circa 1970-1972.

I don't personally remember a 45/410 barrel being made or advertised before the Hot Shot being introduced in 1970. I got my first Contender in very early 1968 and was eager to have every barrel for it, so I was paying pretty close attention to anything new they offered beyond the 5 chambers they first offered in 1967. But memory is only as good as it goes and is not fact. Why I assembled a data base over many years that includes TC's own advertising.

With TC being a new company trying to find their niche I guess what Walt suggested is possible and I just don 't remember it or didn't hear of it. But... in those days TC did not put out a catalogue, just sales fliers/spec sheets starting in mid 1967. No 45/410 barrel is included on those fliers until 1970 when the "new" Hot Shot barrel was first introduced. Even the plain 45 Colt barrel didn't show up on the fliers until sometime during 1968 (IOW, 1968 didn't start out with a 45 Colt offered).

So, I have to ask Bill... why do you presume your barrel is a 1968 barrel?
Please post what the exact configuration of the address and caliber on the barrel is in relation to the muzzle.

Thanks.

Bill,SC · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2011, 04:45:04 AM »

This T/C add is from 1969.

Ladobe: I guess it is possible my barrel is not 1968. It could be 1967. I purchased the complete gun in Jacksonville FL in 1968. Yes, I paid $135 for the complete gun and $25/barrel for 22lr, 222. and .357. Yes, I still have all of them. The attached add was included with the gun. I did get the letter from T/C informing owners about the problem with the ATF. With that letter was the attached add for the "hot shot" barrel.

As I said, I shoot mine. If you are afraid to shoot yours, I will give the 1969 price for it.

one65r · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2011, 05:10:16 AM »

Wow, thanks for digging that up. I'll try the 410 shells and see if I can get that same tight pattern that they show in the ad. If so, this would be an awesome sidearm for those second season dove hunts

Anyone ever dove hunted with one of these. I guess I need to check state regs about hunting with one before I do it, but it seems like a challenge.

Bill,SC · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:46:29 AM »

Don't let the Feds catch you using it. They want you to use a long gun.

one65r · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2011, 07:06:16 AM »

Well then that's a no brainer! I'll leave it at home. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'd need to check local laws. I'll stick to trying it out on some skeet. Should be just as challenging. Although, it will be a great snake pistol for taking when I'm walking around my ponds, fishing.

Ladobe · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:49:57 AM »

Bill,

I have a bunch of the early fliers in my data base starting from the first couple in 1967 when only 5 cartridges were offered (not including the 357MAG, 45 Colt or 222 Rem), and multiple fliers from several years that where for later additions within those years. I'm sure I don't have all the fliers/spec sheets from those early years, or the later years, but I have a bunch of them. Didn't have the one that states 410 shot shells can be fired in the 45 Hot Shot barrels, so only went from memory. So thanks for including it to add to my DB.

As for using the Hot Shot barrel as a shotgun (either with 45 Colt capsules or shotgun shells), I disagree with worrying about the BATF. IMO it would be no different than using the later 45/410 bull pistol barrels offered by TC that shoot shotgun shells. IOW, I just would not attach a shoulder stock to that HS barrel that would make it illegal. Stay with pistol grips only and I wouldn't have to worry at all about the BATF or any other LE. Without question your frame was made and sold as a pistol frame.

Larry

Bill,SC · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2011, 11:47:45 AM »

You are right about ATF and the 45/410. However, my game warden would put me under the jail if I used the pistol for dove. I think that is Fed game law.

Ladobe · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2011, 10:01:16 PM »

True, migratory birds do have federal regs that rule out, among other things, rifles, pistols or shotguns over 10GA. That doesn't rule them out for the TC's with shotgun barrels over 18" and buttstocks though. Some resident upland or small, medium and big game is another matter where TC pistols very often can be legally used for hunting them (following state/local regs).

The list is very long of the species I've hunted legally with TC and other specialty pistols over the years in various states. I was never bothered by any LE's while hunting with them, including game wardens (beyond showing those that asked for it a valid hunting license and/or tags if they were required, or that the firearm was unloaded if in a vehicle). My TC's where always configured to appear legal despite the BATF mumbo jumbo, so they were never questioned by anybody, not once. Having confidence in what you are doing does come through to a LE... its the Nervous Nellie's without it that will spark an LE into digging deeper.
IMO - YMMV

Bill,SC · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:39:34 AM »

Ladobe:

You just went to the top of my "good guy" list! Your last paragraph says it all. How many times have we had to suffer through the debate on what is legal for the contender pistol/rifle. In 43 years of using T/C products, I have never been questioned about how it came from T/C.

Ladobe · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:59:26 AM »

Bill,

Yeah, and lots of luck finding out even from TC how first sold if you are not the original owner of a frame. By default most Contender frames would have been sold as handgun frames though.

I imagine it helps us in that we are both "old school" Contender users who didn't have to deal with what is politically correct until recent years. I agree, the endless debates yammering about it gets quite old. And they tend to add to the list of Nervous Nellie's instead of everyone just enjoying the great versatility of the TC platforms... within reasonable bounds.

Larry

Austin from NC · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2011, 11:03:29 AM »

Ladobe, I called tc customer service the other day about 2 encore frames and was to immediately over phone which configuration they came in. Was on phone less than 2 minutes. Don't know if it is same for contender.

Austin

Ladobe · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2011, 12:53:12 PM »

Austin,
Probably depends if a pre or post fire frame as some of the records were lost in the fire, including some for the Contenders. About 15K Contender frames, all but about 4K Encore frames and all G2 frames are post fire, so they for sure would have the information on those. Even so I am surprised you got such a fast answer... very few of the long term employees are still with TC, and S&W's attitude from the acquisition has been to not supply much old history. With all the folks I had long term relationships with at TC are long gone my "in" to find out anything dried up. Glad to hear they may be more willing now... I'd credit that to their new customer service gal as she is really on the ball as far as S&W will let her be.
L.

HHI-7420 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 19, 2011, 08:08:25 AM »

Bill n SC, I'm kinda late reading this, but I'll make a statement about it. A few years back, I asked the Fla. wildlife dept. in Panama City,Fla. if I could hunt ducks(river swamp sloughs) with a 14" .45/410. A lieutenant told me that if I used the proper shot(not lead), that it was ok. I had the bbl. with me and showed it to him to be sure. Ducks/doves what would be the difference? Pat

Keith L · « **Reply #29 on:** October 19, 2011, 12:29:03 PM »

Make sure that you have good data before using that pistol on migratory birds. As stated earlier in this thread there are federal laws that dictate that you need a shoulder fired shotgun for federally protected species.