Author Topic: Lack of struggle within Islam (Read 2411 times)

Cabin4 · « **on:** September 17, 2011, 04:57:36 AM »

Why is that we find little effort within Islam to curb the hate and violence? We are always told by many and the main stream media about this so called struggle yet we find little evidence to support it. There just is no wide spread effort within Islam to tone down the hate. In fact what we see is just the opposite. I think there are many reasons for this. Can anyone point to any real progress in this area? Something we can see that indicates there is this wide spread movement to change course in the teachings? If not and there is a barrier for the leaders in Islam to push in a more peaceful direction, what is it they are looking for?

Shu · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2011, 07:11:30 AM »

The lack is caused by a fear mentality. You go with what everyone else is saying or doing or you could be in for some trouble. I know several muslims. The ones over thirty decry the hate and violence. They say it is not what is taught. The 18 mid 20's think that everyone should convert to islam. I won't be as bold to say this is world wide. Most people in the islamic countrys over 30 do not use the internet they stay out of political issues and try to make a living. The younger ones use the internet and see all the hate filled crap about how America want to destory you and keep you from heaven. The news networks really have to scrounge hard to find middle aged people in the mobs to interview. It is mostly the youth with the change the world ideology.
Just an opinion.

powderman · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2011, 07:47:37 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on September 17, 2011, 04:57:36 AM

Why is that we find little effort within Islam to curb the hate and violence? We are always told by many and the main stream media about this so called struggle yet we find little evidence to support it. There just is no wide spread effort within Islam to tone down the hate. In fact what we see is just the opposite. I think there are many reasons for this. Can anyone point to any real progress in this area? Something we can see that indicates there is this wide spread movement to change course in the teachings? If not and there is a barrier for the leaders in Islam to push in a more peaceful direction, what is it they are looking for?

I think a lot of it is that they secretly agree with and celebrate quietly. They are looking for total control, a society dedicated to serving their false, murdering, pedophile prophet mohamed. POWDERMAN.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2011, 05:35:26 PM »

There is no struggle within Islam. It is a cult of world domination, and you become a Muslim or die. Pretty simple choices.

ST762

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:22:21 PM »

Quote from: SwampThing762 on September 18, 2011, 05:35:26 PM

There is no struggle within Islam. It is a cult of world domination, and you become a Muslim or die. Pretty simple choices.

ST762

SWAMPTHING. Thats it in a nutshell. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 19, 2011, 02:24:50 PM »

IG, Thats exactly why I started this thread. Its not apparent why that one was locked up. But what may be apparent, are the continued postings of fabrications about groups organizing the boming of Lybia in the name of Christianity are likly to continue.

Hooker · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:42:59 PM »

What the heck is molem

If you typed that in and got all them hits, it proves once again you can find anything on the inna net.
Right, wrong , weird, ..... it's all on the inna net.
GBO don't charge you extra for hitting the spell check button

Pat

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 19, 2011, 06:27:12 PM »

i thot it wuz spelt inuhnet.

Molem.....maybe it's a mechanical beast like a golem, but wearing a bedsheet and a turban, toting an AK-47.

ST762

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2011, 05:35:00 AM »

Most Europeans are NOT Christians, they are agnostics. Only about 10% of people in Europe go to church. Yes, the Western World was based on Christian principles from long ago, but even in America, only about 10-20% are TRUE christians. The rest claim to be but don't go to chruch. 15% of Americans are athiests, probably 25-30% are agnostic. In Muslim nations, most only believe out of FEAR. Islam is a cult religion based on FEAR for control. True Christianity is based on LOVE. I heard the testimony of a recently converted Palistinian. He said if he goes back to the the West Bank, his family will kill him. They have "disowned" him and will not speak to him now. He has married an American girl, and lives here now, with his "Christian" family and is happy. Christians don't kill their kids if they convert to another religion. We are dealing with a cult religion, a religion of "control". They control by fear.

ironglow · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2011, 05:41:03 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on September 21, 2011, 05:35:00 AM

Most Europeans are NOT Christians, they are agnostics. Only about 10% of people in Europe go to church. Yes, the Western World was based on Christian principles from long ago, but even in America, only about 10-20% are TRUE christians. The rest claim to be but don't go to chruch. 15% of Americans are athiests, probably 25-30% are agnostic. In Muslim nations, most only believe out of FEAR. Islam is a cult religion based on FEAR for control. True Christianity is based on LOVE.

******************************************************************
Much of the reason things in the US for the last 40 years or so, are getting more screwed up every year and having more and more of what unbelievers might call "bad luck"...Just my $.02..

coyotejoe · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:48:33 AM »

http://secure.afa.net/afa/activism/takeaction.asp?id=384

powderman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2011, 08:59:48 AM »

DIXIE DUDE. Another good post Sir. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:30:01 AM »

There you go again “making the dots” TM7. Every war is waged by a people who will largely will be from one religion or another or no religion at all. So that point is ridiculous on its face, less a real connection. I guess this would mean that all other aggression perpetrated a non-religion must therefore be in the name of Atheism……

Please provide us with a copy of the statement that the bombings in Libya are being done in the name of Jesus. Also, please provide us with some proof that the Christian groups you mentioned are actively and directly participating in said bombings.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2011, 12:18:57 PM »

I did not get any thread locked. Someone who did not want to see their lack of credibility continue got it locked or locked it themselves.

Back to the subject: Your leaping to the conclusion that if a war is waged, it is in the name of religion because the people waging it have a religious faith. That is the point you are incapable of substantiating here relative to Libya. Your position is that the war against Libya is waged in the name of Christianity. I say prove it. You have not proven this with anything other than your hyper extrapolations by throwing a list of Christian groups around but you fail to connect them to the war decision process. Just because

We all know why US forces participated in the aggression towards Libya. Because we have an idiot for a president. Just because we have Christians in the aggression does not mean it is in the name of Christianity. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

You further hyper extrapolated that Christianity has been “hijacked” by radicals:

TM7 Said Post Reply#11
"Hopefully, there will be a parallel movement to reclaim Christianity from radicals"

C4 Said Post Reply #22
" Please give a list of these "Radical Christians" that have hyjacked the religion. Lets have some facts here TM."
C4 Said Post Reply #24
"Thats what we want from TM7. The context here is the "Struggle within Islam" and those radicals that have hijacked it. He states that Christianity has been hijacked by radicals. There is a huge list of those that have hijacked islam and murder events to match. Lets see TM7 give us a comparable list for Christianity."

TM7 Answer Post Reply #26 "Here's some Christian hyjackers> Haggee group, Roberstson's group Christian Coalition,,,,Scofeld and Darby followers, the weird Christian group that intervenes in vet burials, the whackdoddle Qu'ran burner preacher and followers, Liberty Counsel, Falwell's Moral Majority, Family Research Council, Christian Coalition, Hutaree Chritian Militia......these are a few groups that have served to politicize Christianity....they could use a little 'struggle within' process themselves."

Just because you can put a list together does not mean your assertion is true that Christianity has “been” hijacked. Are their radicals out there, yes. But how can you make a claim this broad when you have little/nothing to back it up.

TM, has Islam been hijacked?

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2011, 02:46:36 PM »

C4, excellent post, sir!! Keep the Islam-is-a-cult deniers rocking back on their heels!!

TM7, please tell me, a Christian, a Person of the Book, which wars of the 20th century were started and wage in the name of Christianity. Please provide sources, too.

ST762

Cabin4 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:17:01 AM »

Can't fool anyone TM7. We can all read the words you wrote in those posts. There is no dishonestly here. Your just trying to change the facts as usual. The alleged facts you write and then you distance yourself from your own writings. We’re getting use to that. So no real challenge here.

Besides the unfounded claims you have made about Christians being equally radical to the Muslims, you also explain the aggression against Libya out to be a war between Jews and Christians. Can you explain this point further?

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:15:32 AM »

Quote from: SwampThing762 on September 21, 2011, 02:46:36 PM

C4, excellent post, sir!! Keep the Islam-is-a-cult deniers rocking back on their heels!!

Is that right?

Quote

TM7, please tell me, a Christian, a Person of the Book, which wars of the 20th century were started and wage in the name of Christianity. Please provide sources, too.
ST762

Sounds like a homework assignment! It wasn't addressed to me, so I'll not tackle the assignment.

Incidentally - I ran across an interesting belt buckle - what does the inscription on it say? Anyone here speak German?

rio grande · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:32:24 AM »

I don't know what sort of struggle might be going among Muslims about Jihad, but I do know that classical Islam certainly has concerned itself with questions of "Just War", as have Christians.

"Abu Bakr (the First Caliph) gave these rules to an army he was sending to battle:

Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path.
You must not mutilate dead bodies.
Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man.
Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful.
Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food.
You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone
Abu Bakr

A noble example of ideal Muslim conduct of war is the capture of Jerusalem by Saladin in 1187. Although a number of holy Muslim places had been violated by Christians, Saladin prohibited acts of vengeance, and his army was so disciplined that there were no deaths or violence after the city surrendered. The residents were taken prisoner, but their ransom was set at a token amount."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/war.shtml

See also...
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/pub588.pdf

BUGEYE · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2011, 07:45:54 AM »

TM7 said

Please try to construct your sentences so they make sense and are at least somewhat grammatically correct so I don't confuse your meaning or points..typos are ok.

I believe GB addressed trying to belittle someone.

powderman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2011, 08:16:09 AM »

RIO GRANDE. Good post. Big difference in today, huh?? POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2011, 09:37:27 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on September 22, 2011, 07:25:38 AM

Quote from: Cabin4 on September 22, 2011, 05:17:01 AM
Can't fool anyone TM7. We can all read the words you wrote in those posts. There is no dishonestly here. Your just trying to change the facts as usual. The alleged facts you write and then you distance yourself from your own writings. We’re getting use to that. So no real challenge here.

Besides the unfounded claims you have made about Christians being equally radical to the Muslims, you also explain the aggression against Libya out to be a war between Jews and Christians. Can you explain this point further?
.

"Methinks she doth protest too much"....Wm Shakespeare....

FYI....as far as I know I'm allowed to present theories, or a thesis, in forum discussions, Mein Fueher....the thesis about struggle within Christianity as parallel with struggle within islam holds water, despite your personal attacks, cognitive dissonance, and misquoting, etc. Maybe one or two readers may consider or further research....as for yourself there is no hope you will grasp the significance of the GWOT as that is out of your reach, and for you there is certainly no hope....

Interesting post, rio grande....aside from usual villfying and religious disinfo (i.e. struggle)

...TM7

You said Christianity has been hijacked by radicals. Now you say that was just a presentation of theories, or a thesis, in forum discussions.

Well, I guess you need to learn how write what you mean. Your previous posts tells us a very different position. When you say "Been" hijacked, that is something that is complete. If you said "you worry about it being hijacked", that would support your latest assertion. Agree? BTW: Typos are okay.

I’m sorry that I’m slow to learn here TM7. Unlike you, I have not perfected the art of mind reading. I’ll certainly work on that shortcoming……

Your not fooling anyone TM. We all see the funny little games you play when your caught in a contradiction or fabrication.

I’m still waiting for that list and explanation. Are you ever going to provide that or is it just part of your typical drive by shooting at Christians and Jews?

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** September 22, 2011, 11:38:16 AM »

YT3

The inscription on the buckle translates to " God with us."

Cabin4 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2011, 12:12:44 PM »

No TM, I'm pretty sure you wrote that Christianity has been hijacked. Do you want to officially revise that now or would you rather just continue to tell everyone else their crazy, or we missed the point or whatever means to try and cover this up with?

I think if your going to make strong condemnations like this, don't you think you should have some proof to offer? I mean, your even willing to post here now, that you never wrote these things yet we can all read your posts. It’s not complicated TM. Why continue the indiscriminant “drive by shooting”? If you feel this strong that Christianity has “been” hijacked, I would think it would be easy for you to transmit to everyone the basis in some proof. Maybe there are some wide spread terror attacks that have been done in the name of Jesus you can offer? Anything?

I'll remain open here TM. Lets hear it.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 22, 2011, 12:45:46 PM »

I think I got it now TM7. Basically what your saying is that wars waged, aggression, whatever by the West, are done in the name of Jesus. And that’s all there is too it even know you can't find any jihad similar declaration equivalent within Christianity. And your backstop to all this is a bunch of books and Bing search result qty. Okay....

Did you ever answer the question: Has Islam been hijacked in your opinion?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2011, 12:54:16 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on September 19, 2011, 01:37:58 PM

Gee, funny....because I typed 'molems for peace' into a search engine (bing) and I got 26,800,000 hits!!....same thing if I typed in moslems and Christians for peace. Seems like alot of people choose to be and stay uninformed; and tyo stay that way just selectively watch mass media.

..TM7

If you read the hits you have 26,700,000 jokes and the other 100,000 hits were people murdered for promoting moslems for peace, by muslims who hate peace.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2011, 01:20:24 PM »

TM7,
I went to your favorite data source Bing and typed in the following two searches and received the following results.

1. Christian Terror Attacks: 43 search results
2. Muslim Terror Attacks: 24,400,000 search results

Based your data source, Muslim Terror Attack incidents, episodes, ect out number the Christians by 567,441 times or Christian are 0.0000017 ratio to the Islamic.

Would you prefer to distance yourself from Bing as your favorite data source or finally concede your making things up?

powderman · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2011, 01:28:59 PM »

CABIN4. You must stop posting facts like that, it makes some others look foolish, and gives them a headache. Some folks just can't handle truth ya know. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2011, 03:30:29 PM »

TM says to C4;
" Please try to construct your sentences so they make sense and are at least somewhat grammatically correct so I don't confuse your meaning or points..typos are ok".
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

Then in another post TM says:

.
"Beside the point and a lot of propaganda; (and secularization is a great judaeo-christian ploy in the plan #666)....the NATO-Euro forces are clearly organized by judaeo-christian morality conceived countries and driven/armed/strategized by USA primarily.... The fallen comrades receive last rites as per judaeo-christian tenets. For all intensive and historical premises these are great 21st Century judaeo-christian military forces, whether the particpants are active worshippers or not...primarily the USA members of this great judaeo-christian army are active practioners...would dare to say same for the Euro forces as well...don't know about their greater societies. US Air Force Academy was once scandalously under a Chriostian Identity type of authority".
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

C' mon now guys; which one is a disjointed unintelligible message ? Sorry TM. although I know you tried hard..it just doesn't make any sense ..to most of us, I believe..

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2011, 04:16:24 PM »

C' mon now guys; which one is a disjointed unintelligible message ? Sorry TM. although I know you tried hard..it just doesn't make any sense ..to most of us, I believe..

HEH, and this surprises you?? POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:15:13 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on September 22, 2011, 03:30:29 PM

TM says to C4;
" Please try to construct your sentences so they make sense and are at least somewhat grammatically correct so I don't confuse your meaning or points..typos are ok".
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

Then in another post TM says:

.
"Beside the point and a lot of propaganda; (and secularization is a great judaeo-christian ploy in the plan #666)....the NATO-Euro forces are clearly organized by judaeo-christian morality conceived countries and driven/armed/strategized by USA primarily.... The fallen comrades receive last rites as per judaeo-christian tenets. For all intensive and historical premises these are great 21st Century judaeo-christian military forces, whether the particpants are active worshippers or not...primarily the USA members of this great judaeo-christian army are active practioners...would dare to say same for the Euro forces as well...don't know about their greater societies. US Air Force Academy was once scandalously under a Chriostian Identity type of authority".
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

C' mon now guys; which one is a disjointed unintelligible message ? Sorry TM. although I know you tried hard..it just doesn't make any sense ..to most of us, I believe..

Hard to comprehend how the guy would lecture me on being "grammatically correct" and then he chimes in with a post that essentially assassinates the idea comprehensive writing. Hard to comprehend but given the source, easy to understand.