Author Topic: Cost Effective Survival Rifle? (Read 12985 times)

flmason · « **on:** September 17, 2011, 07:52:23 PM »

Hi All,
I know it's a topic all over the web, the "ideal survival rifle", LOL!

So here's where I'm at with it. I'm trying to figure the cheapest decent way to cover all the bases. At this point I'm thinking one of:

1) Rossi Trifecta .22/20 Gauge/.243
2) Ruger 10/22
3) Any of several .22 bolt actions

I can augment this with a '58 Remington cap and ball if I have to, as I presently own one. Given my druthers I'd do the Trifecta & a good .357 or .44 for problems like bears and hostile people.

So here's the dilemmas as I see it. The .22's alone give you firepower, easy to carry ammo, etc. But no stopping power... so bears, 2 legged predators are a problem. Trifecta adds 20 guage slugs for dangerous game and .243 for range, but is single shot, so's firepower is a problem.

Since things like Savage 24 and M6 are used market items and I may have to decide in the near term, can't really track a good example down.

Were bears and such not an issue in the west (i.e. if food gathering were the only issue) it would be easy. Just get the .22 a be done with it, I'd tend to think.

So let me know what you all think on the topic. Basically I'm thinking the INCH (I'm Not Coming Home) scenario, if I understand the term correctly. Looking for a cost effective way to be covered with commonly available guns at the local Wal*Mart or Dick's sporting goods, gun shop etc. Anything costly and exotic is pretty much off the table. Think "poor man" who may end up homeless and last bucks gonna have to be spent on survival tools.

Victor3 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 18, 2011, 01:11:16 AM »

Might find this interesting...

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob114.html

burntmuch · « **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:11:35 AM »

I think this has been discussed quite a bit before. There is no perfect one gun. For me its gonna be 357 lever gun & a little lightweight .22 lr. Good luck. These threads are usually good reading. People have put alot of thought into this topic. Its nice to see what other people are thinking.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:28:51 AM »

Since this is mainly salve for your conscience I would get what you feel fills your need. Your post suggests you are concerned about protection more so than food gathering. Get something with "stopping power", whatever you think that is.

I have shot a couple bears with both 45-70 and 300 win mag, neither was "stopped". Both were solid double lung shots, at under 60yds. Mr. bear was quite active for about a minute, think 150hp weed whip. I say this to illustrate there is stopping and then there is what people wish stopping were.

Get what you trust to do the job you foresee, in the end it will make you the most happy.

flmason · « **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2011, 11:45:52 AM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on September 18, 2011, 07:28:51 AM

Since this is mainly salve for your conscience I would get what you feel fills your need. Your post suggests you are concerned about protection more so than food gathering. Get something with "stopping power", whatever you think that is.

I have shot a couple bears with both 45-70 and 300 win mag, neither was "stopped". Both were solid double lung shots, at under 60yds. Mr. bear was quite active for about a minute, think 150hp weed whip. I say this to illustrate there is stopping and then there is what people wish stopping were.

Get what you trust to do the job you foresee, in the end it will make you the most happy.

Well, unfortunately, to cover all situations I'm in the ".22, 30-06, 12 guage and defensive sidearm" camp. Or possibly something like .22 pistol, AKS, 12 guage, etc. In short small and large game, on the wing and anti-personnel/predator are the there scenarios that I believe could arrive living out of the car.

Since I'm essentially on my way to going under, I have to make a good choice and possibly figure out where best to go for winter. Having a hard time deciding which base to leave uncovered as it were.

The dual caliber guns have the most appeal as you can have both shotshell and .22 at the ready. With the swap barrel rigs... if you're foraging with .22 and bear arrives... you're screwed.

But they are generally unavailable without a search these days. I have about 25 days to decide what I'm going to do. So it's down to what I can walk in a buy, unless something changes my situation.

Admitted, no one gun solution has it all. Smallest number I can concieve is 2. A dual gun and a defensive sidearm with some serious kick. Decent sidearms are probably out of budget.

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2011, 01:02:56 PM »

Well, how about 2 guns that get almost everything except high capacity?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/229/products_id/60296
They also make a .410-.22 version, although I couldn't find the link. It gives you .223 mil-surp capability and also was available in .308 or .30-06 & 12 ga. but you also have .22 for small game and carrying lots of ammo and with .410, albeit more expensive to buy, reloading brass shotshells can be quite doable with minimal fuss using .444 brass for small game also. And 12 ga. is obviously very versatile. Under 1k and (4) roads to travel.

I love having a pistol also, but to someone who isn't proficient with a pistol, it's more of a detriment. An inexpensive .357/.38 capable handgun can be a good plus and pretty easy for ammo pricing and availability. Rossi makes a nice 66 with 4" blue barrel and adj. sights under 300 bucks too.

***edit***
Ok been trying to get some better links for above, but Davidson's isn't very responsive today. This link should bring up all the USSG long arms and the dual calibers are towards the bottom of the page: http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?pg=list&mfg=USSG+Inc&mdl=All&cat=2&type=All&cal=All&fin=&sit=&zipcode=48858
They don't have pictures for them all, but do have 308-12ga & 3006-12ga in stock.

One other combo that could be good is what I'm putting together and that's my 45LC Blackhawk (Convertible, so can do .45ACP also), .45 LC Carbine (H&R), .45 LC Rossi B-92 lever gun. Combine those with a decent 22 and you are just over 1k with some shopping around. And add a 12 ga. Barrel to the Carbine for your shotgun. It's not basement cheap, but gets you a lot of flexibility. I load LC loads from .451 RB to 325gr. Leads and many in between. With a couple different powders, ie. Unique and Reloader7, I can load from super mild small game loads and shot shells up to big medicine level for bears etc. It gets you a repeater also with the Levergun and while not a semi-auto, I bet I can keep your head down a while.

Anyway, being able to use one set of molds for most of the loading means with salvaged lead you can make a wide variety of bullets and even shot. You can use Magtech or Rocky Mountain Cartridge brass shotgun shells for multiple times also.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2011, 03:17:24 PM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on May 30, 2011, 02:00:32 AM

If I can only have 1 I want it to be a Rossi Trifecta matched set youth model in 22lr/20ga/44mag. Back it up with 2 hand guns, a 44mag and a 22lr or maybe a 1911 with a 45 and 22 slide.

Add a 44mag Lee loader and Lee bullet mold. Get 2 or 3 thousand CCI large pistol primers, a few pounds of power and some Mag Tech 20ga brass hulls. The Mag Tech brass is easy to load without tools and uses the same large pistol primers and powders as the 44mag. With a few bricks of 22lr your set for a long time. Just pull wheel weights off abandoned cars for lead to make bullets and shot.

I might throw in a few chamber adapters for the 20ga. 357Mag, 9mm and 45 because they are popular. The adapters weigh almost nothing and if I find ammo in those calibers I can use them in the Rossi.

I can hide it all in a backpack and look unarmed. Blend in with unarmed civilians when necessary. Yet able to defend myself with the hand guns. With the Rossi I can hunt anything East of the Mississippi and get a little more reach than with the hand guns.

I wrote this for another forum. Have more to say but no time.

flmason · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:25:32 PM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on September 18, 2011, 03:17:24 PM

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on May 30, 2011, 02:00:32 AM
If I can only have 1 I want it to be a Rossi Trifecta matched set youth model in 22lr/20ga/44mag. Back it up with 2 hand guns, a 44mag and a 22lr or maybe a 1911 with a 45 and 22 slide.

Add a 44mag Lee loader and Lee bullet mold. Get 2 or 3 thousand CCI large pistol primers, a few pounds of power and some Mag Tech 20ga brass hulls. The Mag Tech brass is easy to load without tools and uses the same large pistol primers and powders as the 44mag. With a few bricks of 22lr your set for a long time. Just pull wheel weights off abandoned cars for lead to make bullets and shot.

I might throw in a few chamber adapters for the 20ga. 357Mag, 9mm and 45 because they are popular. The adapters weigh almost nothing and if I find ammo in those calibers I can use them in the Rossi.

I can hide it all in a backpack and look unarmed. Blend in with unarmed civilians when necessary. Yet able to defend myself with the hand guns. With the Rossi I can hunt anything East of the Mississippi and get a little more reach than with the hand guns.

I wrote this for another forum. Have more to say but no time.

Trifecta plus a Superblackhawk would do it for me, though neither .243 nor .44 mag as my "rifle" caliber really appeals to me. Would prefer a .308 ro 30-06 for that barrel.

So why'd you want to go with .44 in the Trifecta vrs. .243?

flmason · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:34:55 PM »

Quote from: tacklebury on September 18, 2011, 01:02:56 PM

Well, how about 2 guns that get almost everything except high capacity?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/229/products_id/60296
They also make a .410-.22 version, although I couldn't find the link. It gives you .223 mil-surp capability and also was available in .308 or .30-06 & 12 ga. but you also have .22 for small game and carrying lots of ammo and with .410, albeit more expensive to buy, reloading brass shotshells can be quite doable with minimal fuss using .444 brass for small game also. And 12 ga. is obviously very versatile. Under 1k and (4) roads to travel. I love having a pistol also, but to someone who isn't proficient with a pistol, it's more of a detriment. An inexpensive .357/.38 capable handgun can be a good plus and pretty easy for ammo pricing and availability. Rossi makes a nice 66 with 4" blue barrel and adj. sights under 300 bucks too.
***edit***
Ok been trying to get some better links for above, but Davidson's isn't very responsive today. This link should bring up all the USSG long arms and the dual calibers are towards the bottom of the page: http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?pg=list&mfg=USSG+Inc&mdl=All&cat=2&type=All&cal=All&fin=&sit=&zipcode=48858
They don't have pictures for them all, but do have 308-12ga & 3006-12ga in stock.

One other combo that could be good is what I'm putting together and that's my 45LC Blackhawk (Convertible, so can do .45ACP also), .45 LC Carbine (H&R), .45 LC Rossi B-92 lever gun. Combine those with a decent 22 and you are just over 1k with some shopping around. And add a 12 ga. Barrel to the Carbine for your shotgun. It's not basement cheap, but gets you a lot of flexibility. I load LC loads from .451 RB to 325gr. Leads and many in between. With a couple different powders, ie. Unique and Reloader7, I can load from super mild small game loads and shot shells up to big medicine level for bears etc. It gets you a repeater also with the Levergun and while not a semi-auto, I bet I can keep your head down a while. Anyway, being able to use one set of molds for most of the loading means with salvaged lead you can make a wide variety of bullets and even shot. You can use Magtech or Rocky Mountain Cartridge brass shotgun shells for multiple times also.

Thanks for the links. I've been believing the only double guns around were the M6 and the Savage 24. Ran into some sort of Russian made version as well last night in my Google-ing.

In a double gun I'd like .22lr and a shotgun 20 or 12 gauge. Thinking being I'm ready for small game... but if some stopping power is needed... a slug is handy. Then with pistol on the hip, 6 or more shots ready for any thing needing for firepower.

.223 + 12 Gauge I find less appealing since .223 is priced like rifle ammo, and I'm unlikely to acquire even a Lee Loader in the near term. But grew up reloading, so I'm definitely curious about the Rocky Mountain Brass cartridge shot shells.... reloading without tools? How's that work? They don't have to be resized?

Another thought I if I had more time/money might be a double barrel 12 and then two pistols. One in .22, one in something anti-personnel. Say a Ruger MKIII and a 1911A1. But that leaves out the long range rifle barrel.

A light weight drilling would be the thing I'd think. .22, .308, 12 or 20 guage, and then the handgun. Not sure such a thing ever existed though. Would probably be hideously expensive as well.

Anyone have any thoughts on whether a .22 auto like a 10/22 would outlast a bolt action .22? I'm thinking the 10/22 being an automatic is designed to take recoil and run a little loose anyway, so it may actually last longer than something that relies on precision, like a bolt. But of course it's more likely to have feeding issues.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2011, 02:53:11 AM »

Flmason it sounds like you are in a world of hurt. Sorry about that. For the rest of us these situations are hypothetical, for you it's real. I wish you the best of luck and ask that God blesses you.
A 357 or 44 mag in a rifle is a lot more powerful than in a pistol. I would really go for the 357, but the trifecta doesn’t come in that flavor. I would choose the 44 mag over the 243 because I think it is a better round for deer than the 243. The 243 may have more range. I am obsessed with the idea of having a rifle and pistol shoot the same round. If one gun breaks the other can fire the ammo. Less ammo to carry. The classic lee loader is $20 and fits in a small box. I bought mag-tech brass 12 ga from Midway instead of the rocky mountain ones. The mag-tech are cheaper and can be reloaded without tools. The 12 ga (or 20 ga) use the same primers and powder that can be used in a 44 mag.
I have choose to use a 12 ga pump for my main SHTF gun. 12 ga because that is what my family has and we can share ammo. If it was just me I would take a 20 ga. I have chamber adapters for 357 mag, 9mm, 45 APC and 410 ga. They are a good replacement for slugs. I hoped to use 38s for squirrels but they are not accurate enough.
https://www.dinaarms.com/The_Dina_Adapter.php
Once again out of time.

schoolmaster · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2011, 03:37:42 AM »

I bought a Savage model 93 blue/syn for a utility/truck gun in .22 mag, mounted a 3X9 cheap 1 inch scope on it and it has proven to be very accurate with several types of ammo. It will shoot the Winchester Dynapoint well enough to head shoot squirrels at 25 yards. These are some of the cheapest cartridges at Walmart. This rifle could in a pinch take animals up to and including deer. I am looking for a 12 ga pump shotgun now to add to my survival battery. A mossburg 500, H&R partner, or an 870 Remington Express will make a good all around piece. The next gun I would spend the money on would be a good revolver, something you could carry carry with you all the time. I have a Ruger Red Hawk 5and1/2 inch SS in 44 mag I picked up used for $400. I use the Winchester white box 240 soft points from Walmart. My last choice would be a Stevens 200 in 30-06. If I could have only one it would be the shotgun.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #11 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:47:19 AM »

OK wife’s working overtime, got a few minutes. Tackelbury is really on to something with that USSG MP94. That comes in a 12 ga/30-06 model. You could get the Rossi 20 ga/22LR at Walmart for $125. Get the MP94 12 ga/30-06 for about $500. Buy any hand gun you want. With the Dina Arms chamber adapters for $40 you could shoot your pistol ammo out of both guns.

Now I have a problem with Tackelbury. I have to have one of those MP94s. I can't decide which one.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #12 on:** September 19, 2011, 05:49:42 AM »

Quote from: flmason on September 18, 2011, 07:34:55 PM

Quote from: tacklebury on September 18, 2011, 01:02:56 PM
Well, how about 2 guns that get almost everything except high capacity?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/229/products_id/60296
They also make a .410-.22 version, although I couldn't find the link. It gives you .223 mil-surp capability and also was available in .308 or .30-06 & 12 ga. but you also have .22 for small game and carrying lots of ammo and with .410, albeit more expensive to buy, reloading brass shotshells can be quite doable with minimal fuss using .444 brass for small game also. And 12 ga. is obviously very versatile. Under 1k and (4) roads to travel. I love having a pistol also, but to someone who isn't proficient with a pistol, it's more of a detriment. An inexpensive .357/.38 capable handgun can be a good plus and pretty easy for ammo pricing and availability. Rossi makes a nice 66 with 4" blue barrel and adj. sights under 300 bucks too.
***edit***
Ok been trying to get some better links for above, but Davidson's isn't very responsive today. This link should bring up all the USSG long arms and the dual calibers are towards the bottom of the page: http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?pg=list&mfg=USSG+Inc&mdl=All&cat=2&type=All&cal=All&fin=&sit=&zipcode=48858
They don't have pictures for them all, but do have 308-12ga & 3006-12ga in stock.

One other combo that could be good is what I'm putting together and that's my 45LC Blackhawk (Convertible, so can do .45ACP also), .45 LC Carbine (H&R), .45 LC Rossi B-92 lever gun. Combine those with a decent 22 and you are just over 1k with some shopping around. And add a 12 ga. Barrel to the Carbine for your shotgun. It's not basement cheap, but gets you a lot of flexibility. I load LC loads from .451 RB to 325gr. Leads and many in between. With a couple different powders, ie. Unique and Reloader7, I can load from super mild small game loads and shot shells up to big medicine level for bears etc. It gets you a repeater also with the Levergun and while not a semi-auto, I bet I can keep your head down a while. Anyway, being able to use one set of molds for most of the loading means with salvaged lead you can make a wide variety of bullets and even shot. You can use Magtech or Rocky Mountain Cartridge brass shotgun shells for multiple times also.

A light weight drilling would be the thing I'd think. .22, .308, 12 or 20 guage, and then the handgun. Not sure such a thing ever existed though. Would probably be hideously expensive as well.

Yes they were made, and this one has been my "go to gun" for more than 25 years now,

It has worked out perfectly for me...

DM

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #13 on:** September 19, 2011, 06:14:03 AM »

I have drooled over Drilling Mans rifle many times. Yes, he got a deal, but they are prohibitively expensive. The savage 24 is no longer made. I think the MP94 is the closest thing to it.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #14 on:** September 19, 2011, 01:43:41 PM »

Are the posted guns what you own? Or where you are headed?

Hunting large and small can be accomplished with a shotgun plain and simple. You may have to do a bit more stalking or limit the game a bit, but a shotgun with a pocket of bird shot and a couple slugs will suffice to kill about anything if in range. Bow hunters get it done with far less effective range. While the cap and ball would work, there is good reason they are relics. Find a major calibre pistol at bargain price.

There you have it, two guns. They can handle killing anything needing killin'.

tacklebury · « **Reply #15 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:11:06 PM »

flmason: A 10-22 or other semi-auto will not typically outlast a decent bolt. They are pretty close, especially with tube feeds, because you don't take magazine wear or loss into account as much. There is simply less moving parts, so on an MTBF basis, I'd have to say the bolt is going to win. Plus they can be used as a single shot much easier typically. My Marlin little Buckaroo, is about as simple a mechanism as you can get and still use a trigger and safety.

I really hope they start making a .22LR/12ga or .22LR/20ga. version of the Baikal, especially the prior. I like 20's and until I tried to get ahold of buckshot, even preferred them. However, I have to say that the 12ga. is tough to beat for variation of loads and with a 3.5" chamber, you can shoot it all if you have a changable choke.

I also practice with sling, slingshots, blow-gun, bola and have practiced a good bit with throwing axe. I shoot a recurve bow and fletch my own arrows also. Still nice to have 10K .22 lr ammo in one can available in a SHTF situation. I also like to have my .45 Colt strapped across my chest in quick reach for bad situations. Basically, practice for anything and PLAN for what you want, IMO.

Hodr · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2011, 04:53:44 AM »

Thinking this over for awhile. 5.5 pound handirifle in .357 mag is about $280, Lee loader is about $30, used 20 guage barrel for handirifle is about $100, 357 maxi reamer rental for 357 is about $50. This is about $500 total and you still need to buy initial ammo, powder, brass, primers, bullets, and shot to reload with---about $700 total. You can load 357 or 38 special from cat sneeze load to full 357 mag. Shells are bigger than 22 but have more attitude and you cannot shoot a 22 lr more than once. 20 ga can be used with inexpensive 6 chill and the same shell can be ringed for larger critters. You can add a cheap/used 357 sidearm and still stay well under $1000. If you really want to simplify you could check for one powder that will handle pistol, rifle and shotgun, I think my brother in law does this with Clays?

? So there you go a side arm(?), a rifle, a shotgun, reloading under $1000, absolute reliability and you can shoot 38 special, 357 mag, 357 max and 20 guage.

Hodr

reliquary · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2011, 06:10:47 AM »

flmason:

Sounds like you're facing hard times and hard choices. I'm going to paraphrase the Epistle of James and the Letter to the Romans and just say, "Hard times make good people."

I have a 10-22 that is at least 25 years old, picked it up used in a pawnshop that long ago, that has given flawless service with several thousand rounds. I just flush it out with WD-40 and solvent every few years, whether it needs it or not. With a decent 4X scope, it's a definite killer, and with a good 25-round mag, there is a little firepower, too. I do not like the old factory rotary mags. They are around $225 new in Academy.

I just bought a 20-gauge pump in Wal-Mart for $159, the H&R/NEF youth model, that is a jewel. Take out the plug and it holds 5+1 in 2 3/4" shells, so that's a little extra firepower; slugs & buckshot provide good hitting power.

With the pistol or revolver of your preference, you are set. A basic, even used, .357 revolver...is the minimum.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2011, 08:21:21 PM »

I'd pick up a good single shot 12 gauge with a modified or improved cylinder choke (or one with screw in chokes) and a good .357 (I like the ruger gp100) or depending on how much you have you could get an remington 870 turkey (the one that comes with rifle type sights) and screw in a rifled choke tube that should give you a decent pattern with shot and you can shoot slugs out of it (I haven't tried this idea yet but it's on my to do list)

don heath · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2011, 09:27:44 PM »

In 1984, 6 of us decided to drive from Zimbabwe, up through the congo and CAR to see the pyramids in egypt. I took along a little meat gathering gun and one of the others had a belgian 'poachers gun'. Mine was a really cheap russian Drulov target pistol. A single shot, bolt action pistol with a superb trigger. Later models had a fancy trigger but mine was an early one. Fitted a folding stock off an AKM, a silence and an early Aimpoint sight. Fitted nicely into the side pocket on the landrovers door. Quiet and very effective out to 50m.

The belgian gun was a .22 over a .410. Like all of that genre of guns it folded right in half when you opened it. As such it could be left loaded but broken and held against the roof of his landrover by the visor. Other lad never used his, but I took a few duiker to make a change from a diet of bananas and rice. Never did aquire the taste for people or monkey which was all that seemed to be on offer in most of the Congo. Somewhere in the South Sudan are two very interesting guns (and our three landrovers) - we gave everything to the mission station that arranged for us to have a ride out on a plane as the civil war over took us.

mannyrock · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:29:24 AM »

Guys,

This chain of responses has gone far afield.

The orginal post asked for ideas for the cheapest ONE survival gun.

Of course there is no single gun that can fill all rolls, so whatever is suggested will be a compromise.

I feel that there are only 3 possible candidates.

1. A used Remington 870 pump shotgun, in either 20 or 12 gauge. You can find these for as little as $200.

2. A used .223 carbine, either bolt or perhaps pump. The .223 ammo is cheap, lightweight, available everywhere, and will take anything from squirrel to deer, with effective ranges for self defense out to 300 yards. The cost would be from $200 to $500 depending on what particular model you choose.

3. If you are a .22 expert, then a new Ruger 10/22. Yes, I know that the .22LR does not have much stopping power for self defense, but with a 10 round magazine I would not stop firing on the target, even at point blank range, until the magazine was empty or the threat ended. You can probalby fire all 10 rounds in 3 seconds. I'd like to see an assailant walk through that. Cost would be about $175 to $200.

Which one of these you choose depends more on you, than on the firearm. You need to assess how old you are, how fit you are, how much weight you can carry, how well you can see, what type of area you live in, the terrain and woods in which you live, what type of game is available, and how dense the population is.

In short, let's quit giving him the 3-gun solution. It may be the right solution, but is not really what he asked. :-)

Mannyrock

mannyrock · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:36:41 AM »

Dear Guys,

P.S.:

A single shot rifle or shotgun for self-defense?

A cap and ball revolver for self-defense?

You have GOT to be kidding me. In a self-defense scenario, those are two good ways to get killed.

Manny

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2011, 07:37:36 AM »

Cost Effective Survival "Rifle"

.30-30 Read the articles at The Frugal Outdoorsman. Round balls to 180 grains.

What survival niche is most important to fill? As mentioned no one gun can do it all with the exception of a shotgun, slugs to shot.My favorite is a Remmie 870 with rifle sights and a 20" IC barrel. I think I'd stay with a .30-30 lever gun and a Ruger Single Six. Though I would have a hard time giving up my Savage .30-30/12GA (Maybe strapped to my pack with chamber adapters. But I'm sure I'd want my SS M-6 or other .22 rifle as well. My plan would be to stay as isolated as possible. I need a game cart to tote it all I'm thinking.

As in all things, personal preferance takes a front seat.

reliquary · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2011, 11:43:19 AM »

Well, as has been "discussed to death" in any number of threads, like the ones on the one best pistol, the one gun you'd grab if you had to bug out, the one best home defense gun, etc ad nauseum....there isn't any one best, fit all purposes, do-anything and everything in all circumstances, the only one I ever needed...gun.

I know that I would use whatever I had on hand in whatever circumstances I found myself at the end of civilization. But I can't narrow it down to just one, for "planning" purposes. Best I can do is the three I mentioned. They will take care of a lot of possible scenarios.

The only time I ever had only one gun was between age 8 and age 10.

powderman · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:35:31 PM »

I had a sav mod 24 many years ago, 22-20 ga. First time hunting I fired 3 shots 22 shorts at a squirrel and missed, it kept right on cutting. I got disgusted, switched to SG and killed the squirrel. Took a few shots at the house at about 30+ yds or so and found the rifle shooting way to the left. Adj the sites for the rifle. Problem was then the SG shot severl ft off. Needless to say I traded it off. I'd love to have another one that worked right. POWDERMAN.

sidewinder319 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 21, 2011, 06:45:15 PM »

A .22 pistol and two Molotov Cocktails.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:59:44 AM »

Mannyrock this isn't the typical 1 gun tread. The OP has a real world scenario. It's about survival in today’s world as a homeless person, not a SHTF or EOTWAWKI world. “Think poor man who may end up homeless”. Will he live out of a car or backpack? If I were about to be homeless I would put everything I have on the front lawn and have a yard sale, your going to loose it anyway. I would get enough for a 3 gun solution.

The challenge here isn't 1 gun, it is the cheapest way to cover all bases. Small game, large game, wing shooting and defense. If living out of a backpack the Trifecta and a hand gun or 2 would be the only way to do it. At times it would be necessary to look unarmed, hard to do with a long gun.

If living out of a car you have more options. More and longer guns can be hid in a trunk. Then how long before being forced out of the car and having to live out of a backpack?

I can't find many cheap use guns. Most I find are cheaper new at Walmart or Dick's. I have been looking for a 357 mag lever gun for 2 years. One at a gun shop was $800, another at a gun show $550. The pawn shops are full of 30-30 levers at $200 to $300. Maybe a Rossi matched pair in 22 LR/20 ga and a 30-30 lever. It's not the 30-06 or 308 you mentioned, but a better compromise than the 243 and 44 mag the Trificta comes with. I think for defense a hand gun is a must have.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2011, 03:32:15 AM »

A shotgun is by far the most versitile. Slugs, buckshot and birdshot cover all possables. Maybe you are lucky enough to find a used gun with interchangeble chokes.

If you are going to be forraging, you need traps. You will eat more rabbits etc if you set traps then if you count on only what you can get a shot at. Put half a dozen out and they are hunting all the time.

During the depression, my grand father did quite a bit of squirreling. He used a slingshot to knock them out of the trees, then ran up, grabbed them by the tail and whipped their head against the tree trunk. One day, a squirrel wasn't as stunned as he looked and my grand father got a scar he had untill he died (early 1990s). He traded a day's work for a pellet pistol which he used from then out for the finishing touch. He got the pistol so he could keep it hidden. Bigger kids wouldn't take it from him if they didn't know he had it. He and his mother spent a number of years living on the road. Some of his squirrel hunting was done in city parks. That being another reason for his discression. Anyway, you may want to consider a pellet gun as a backup for your shotgun. Shotgun for 'real' shooting, pellet gun for the stockpot. You can take rabbits, grouse, squab, whatever with a well placed pellet. At $15/1000 pellets you can afford to practice a little. Buy the best you can afford, but you can get something that will take small game for $50 or $100 even buying new. The pellet gun you can probably keep even if you end up in a situation where you can't keep a firearm. Today's pellet guns will shoot them dead in the tree, not just for using to finish after you get them out of the tree.

You can catch lot's of squirrel with a rat sizes trap. Regular hardware store rat traps. I drill a hole in the base to screw it to a tree. Smear a tiny smear of penut butter on the trigger and set it. You'll have squiire hanging in a tree pretty soon. Rabits are a little harder and you want to use a snair or a small conibare trap. If you spend $50 on small game traps you will be rewarded for it.

Also consider YoYo fish traps. Not sure if they are legal where you are. You'll have to check that out. If you can get them, they will feed you.

After a day's work at whatever work you can get, you will be glad to find something in your fish and or game traps. That's better than working all day, then hunting up whatever you can in the hours left to you.

Good luck. I hope things turn around for you soon. It sounds like you are taking initiative to get through it which tells me you will get through it. I hope sooner than later.

mannyrock · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2011, 08:25:29 AM »

Well, one thing is for certain. If a person is homeless, and wanders around alot, then sooner or later he is going to be stopped by the police. And, the poorer he becomes, the more he will be stopped.

The very FIRST thing that a police officer is going to do, upon finding that a homeless man is carrying a handgun, is to confiscate it from him, period end of story. Rightly or wrongly, legal or not, it will be taken and be gone.

What a homeless person needs is something that doesn't appear to constitute much of a threat, and is both effective and quiet, and that role can only be filled by a .22 rifle. I vote for a pump action .22, because it can feed shorts, longs and long rifle, and will function fine with .22 CB rounds (which are pretty darned quiet and can kill small game with ease out to 25 yards.)

The Ruger 10/22, and most other semi-autos, will not fire anything but the .22 LR. So, they are totally impractical.

A lever action would also be fine.

So, I would be looking for a used Remington gamemaster, or one of the newer (Henry model?) bargain priced lever action .22s.

Even less threatening would be a bolt action .22, with a 5 shot magazine carried separately in your pocket, with a good peep sight mounted on it. The older Remington bolt actions, in the 500 series, that were commonly sold in hardware stores when I was a kid, would be perfect for this. (I remember that I wanted the one that was tube fed, and it cost $45. My mom wouldn't buy it for me.)

The rifle should be carried in a sling, over your shoulder, with the muzzle slung down.

By the way, you had better carry it in plain view, because in most states, carrying one of these in a concealed fashion under your coat is a felony (i.e., carrying a concealed weapon.)

Hope this helps the analysis somewhat.

Mannyrock

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2011, 09:17:33 AM »

If I suddenly became homeless I would get a mailbox with a mail company. UPS took over the one I had a box with before. They give you a street address and will sign for packages for you. That would help with things like getting a CCW, ordering chamber adapters and Lee loader. A street address and a track phone would help with getting a job that might get one a new home. I would also make sure if I was hunting that I had a license.