Cost Effective Survival Rifle?

[reliquary]

Lost farm boy & Mannyrock (and others) have made some good points. 
 
Flmason, if the worst happens, try to hold onto a car.  Whatever you decide on in firearms, if you keep them in the trunk of your car, most cops won't hassle you, if the weapons themselves are legal.  If you have a pickup, get a cheap camper shell...if you sleep in the back end, store the weapons in the cab; they're not considered "concealed" in most Southern jurisdictions...as long as they're not within immediate reach.  In Louisiana, your car is considered an extension of your home in most jurisdictions, so there's fewer problems.
 
I talked with several local cops and some Staties I know, and a homeless guy walking down the road with a slung shoulder weapon will be a cop magnet.  If found with one broken down and in the backpack, it's considered concealed and needs a permit, and will cause lots of trouble. 
 
Although some don't like semi-autos, a Mossberg 702 Plinkster goes for about $110 and is as accurate as anyone needs.  Add a single-shot H&R/NEF, and those two inexpensive guns will keep anyone in game.  Not much on self-defense, though.
 
 

[powderman]

Although some don't like semi-autos, a Mossberg 702 Plinkster goes for about $110 and is as accurate as anyone needs.
 
 
I just bought a plinkster a few months ago and really like it. $117 + tx at walmart, out the door $125. I found xtra mags but the guy was too high, $23 apiece. I had a gunshop order me some and he said they were on backorder so make sure you can find xtras, I will have to wait 4-6 wks they said and I don't want to wait that long.  POWDERMAN. 

[jlwilliams]

You need to look at this. http://youtu.be/k3M46XVfVOU
 
  Cut shotshells.  Makes a 'slug' out of a bird shot shell.  This has been discussed on GB before but I think it's pertinant to this discussion.
 
  Definitely, you need to be looking for a vehicle.  Preferably a van.  A van can be a shelter on wheels.  If you are planning on hunting, I imagine you live somewhere that you figure you can stay in or near the woods.  Find yourself a couple of different discreet parking spots/ camp sights ahead of time.  Guns should be locked in the trunk of a car or in a locked tool box if you get a van.
 
  I'd put a greater priority on a van than on a firearm.  As already pointed out, a homeless man with a gun will get it taken away by LE.  Shelter gives you a place to cook that food.  A van with a small cooker of some type and a 50lb sack of rice and some fishing gear (even drop lines) is a priority over a shotgun in my opinion.

[tacklebury]

Here you go on the GBO Classifieds section.  Savage 30-30/12 ga. w/ 22lr and 22 mag inserts for the 30-30.  Cannot get any better for 500 bucks... actually wish I had 500 bucks right now.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,241417.0.html

[tacklebury]

You need to look at this. http://youtu.be/k3M46XVfVOU
 
  Cut shotshells.  Makes a 'slug' out of a bird shot shell.  This has been discussed on GB before but I think it's pertinant to this discussion.
 
  Definitely, you need to be looking for a vehicle.  Preferably a van.  A van can be a shelter on wheels.  If you are planning on hunting, I imagine you live somewhere that you figure you can stay in or near the woods.  Find yourself a couple of different discreet parking spots/ camp sights ahead of time.  Guns should be locked in the trunk of a car or in a locked tool box if you get a van.
 
  I'd put a greater priority on a van than on a firearm.  As already pointed out, a homeless man with a gun will get it taken away by LE.  Shelter gives you a place to cook that food.  A van with a small cooker of some type and a 50lb sack of rice and some fishing gear (even drop lines) is a priority over a shotgun in my opinion.

Just remember to read local laws.  Cut shells are illegal to hunt with in some places.  Definitely illegal here in Michigan anyway.  8(

[mannyrock]

 
  Mr. Williams has raised the most important point of all.  If you are truly in danger of becoming homeless in the near future, then you have about 100 things more important to do right now than find a survival rifle.   
 
   Focus all of your attention on getting a van or a pick-up with camper top shell.
 
   Not only with this provide you with a home on wheels, but it would enable you to drive through upper middle class suburbs on the weekends, carrying a shovel, rake, hand saw, hedge trimmer, pruners, small chainsaw, small ladder, small tool box, etc., and stop every house, asking if they need anything done in the yard, including mowing their yard with their lawn mower.
 
  When they ask you what you will charge for the work, ask them to offer you a reasonable price, and whatever they say, take it.  Most will pay a more than fair rate, and tip you at the end for a job well done.  And, many will ask if you can come back in a month or so to do more work.
 
  A little 6ft by 4ft trailer, which are pretty darned cheap (less than $500), could be easily towed behind a pick-up and would be perfect for carrying your tools and supplies.
 
  In the weathly suburbs of Fairfax, Virginia, where I grew up, and where all of my family still lives, you could easily make $200 or more a day doing this.  Rates of $100 per hour for tradesmen are the norm, and most of them never even bother to show up on time. 
 
  My parents and brother pay $400 each to have all of the leaves raked out of their yards.  This is generally done by two or three hispanic gentlemen, who use nothing but portable leaf blowers strapped to their backs. They "herd" all of the leaves into the front ditch.  It takes them about 2 hours to do this.  You can do it by hand, over a 10 hour period, and charge $300.   By the way, my parents and brother pay to have this done at least 3 times a year!
 
  Folks in the wealthy suburbs have tons of money, and almost no spare time.  You will have almost no money and tons of spare time.  This is how you can earn a living.
 
  If you are lawfully carrying a firearm in your truck, make sure that they don't see it.  That is the one thing that they don't want in their yards.
 
  Almost every county in the country, including Fairfax, have little state parks or county parks where you can stay overnight in a campsite for a reasonable fee.  You may have to change campgrounds once a week, but who cares. 
 
Mannyrock
 
 
 

[Hodr]

After coming back and reading other answers, I would like to rearrange my answer.  Priorities should be set.
 
1    Food and water
 
2    Shelter
 
3    Income of some sort
 
4    legitamate appearance
 
5    Protection
Most econimical way I can imagine
 
1    basic subsistance diet, (flour, rice, beans, vitamins, water), aided by whatever protien can be found (hunting small game, raising rabbits)
 
2    shelter and transport combined, old reliable truck and camper,  Lets you cook and haul drinking water as a bonus.  You only need to insure truck             for minimums in most states
 
3   Buy a magnetic sign for each side of camper advertising odd jobs and handy man
 
4   Truck and signs will help, clean heavy duty work clothes will help even more when asking for work
 
5    Protection: now that you have the basics of life consider modest investment in security.  Learn to hunt with a slingshot, after you learn how to make and hunt with a slingshot start making them for sale when you have spare time.  Learn to fish, learn to trap, you are in vital need of FM 21-76 US ARMY SURVIVAL MANUAL. Invest in a Sheridan pump up .22 cal pellet rifle, it is accurate, a small game getter, and quiet,....every LEO hearing a gunshot is being paid to investigate it.  If you are packing weapons capable of offense, and there is trouble any where around you, you will probably be listed as one of the usual suspects questioned.  The only weapon you really want is an old shotgun, the only time you use it is if you are in fear of your life.
 
I have known people who have lived this life by choice not circumstance, this is the way they did it.  If you can get the small closed cargo trailer to pull, it will help a lot, but you must make sure to rig it so some another person cannot just tow it off.  Most homeless camps I have seen are organised to squeeze money to the toughest person there, stay out of them.
 
I wish you the best and have one piece of advice; a man clean in person and dress can generally get work of some kind, the same man in dirty clothes and unwashed/unshaven will be asked to leave town.
 
Hodr

[mannyrock]

 
Hodr,
 
   You have given extremely excellent advice.
 
   And, I can't stress enough your point about being clean and well dressed.
 
   If you look like a bum, people will treat you like a bum.
 
   Don't show up in old jeans, and cotton t-shirts with no collars, and filthy tennis shoes, stinking to high heaven. 
 
   Buy khaki pants, longs sleeve work shirts with collars (one color, not plaid or multi-color), golf shirts, white cotton socks, low cut brown leather work boots, and dark canvas jackets.  No hoodies! And no filthy baseball caps.  Clean ones only (available at any gas station.)
 
   All of these clothes can be bought at cheap prices, in cotton-poly blends, at Wal-Mart.  These are what rich folks use as work clothes, and if you show up wearing them, doors will open for you.
 
  Also, be total clean shaven, with short haircut at all times.  This  is also very cheap to do.
 
  You can stay totally clean, and wash all of your clothes, with a simple 20 gallon wash tub and a bottle of soap.  This is how people stayed clean for hundreds of years before showers and tubs.
 
  If you have any spare money right now, then the number 1 priority is to go to a dentist and get your teeth totally fixed up.  Second priority  is the work clothes.  And third priority is the truck or camper.
You pick up a cheap shotgun or .22 rifle at any flea market at a later time.
 
  Don't simply "accept" going homeless and poverty striken.  Plan and thrive.
 
  Hope this helps.
 
Mannyrock
 
 
 

[flmason]

Hi All,
    Sorry I've not been back in a while.

All good advice above.

Yes, the issue of how to stay clean looking, basic hygiene etc. has crossed my mind, whether I end up in a urban/suburban situation or actually "take to the hills", no doubt about that.

Also the issue of LEO's etc. has crossed my mind. In my quick survey there seems to be nowhere in the lower 48 that covers the following points that you wouldn't get run out of eventually:

1) Clean potable water
2) Survivable Winter
3) Enough to Eat
4) Not so hot you'll evaporate.

For example, Angeles National Forest hits most of the things you'd need to survive... but there pot growers and rangers out there. Not to mention fires.

Arizona has plenty of desolate, and you basically evaporate, LOL!

Regions more notherly, well think of the Donner Party.

Most of the running water is now contaminated by industrial waste or treated sewage. So's outside some spots high in the Rockies or possibly Appalachia, that's going to be a problem.

In any event, coming up with 1-2 lbs. of food a day, could be difficult in the wrong environment.

No idea how this will play out, to be sure.

However on the firearms topic. I'm leaning toward the Rossi Combos because they are cheap and I can go ahead and buy a little more ammo. The option of having some stopping power if but one slug, is pushing me that way, combined with cheap .22 LR ammo for everything else. Unfortunately, being steel rather than stainless... strikes me as a rust problem there. I dunno, as many have stated, no real good *complete* solution really exists. Least not in one gun, that fits what's available to me at present. Otherwise the "get a van, get 3 guns" approach would be good. Car I have will have to do. Guess whatever gun(s) I pick when/if it really goes down will have to do.

Will have to do with the black powder guns I currently have. So only handgun at present will be a '58 remmi repro.

Have to admit, any of the Savage 24 or similars look like good solutions if they were findable and affordable. BTW, that drilling looks like a fine piece of work.

Agreed, it one "hits the hills" trapping is probably a key skill. Actually any foraging technique that doesn't burn ammo. Bunny stick, snares and traps, bow, etc.

I can see why so many homeless folks ultimately opt for the city route. Probably easier to forage in LA, if the other homeless folks don't kill you. But being an older guy and not particularly bid and "badass", I'd actually rather take my chances in the woods than say Skid Row, Los Angeles.

That said, apart from some minor hunting skills. but lots of firearms experience, I'm not truly equiped with the skills to do it. If it goes that way, it'll be rough, if not short. Perhaps the only shot I'll be taking is on myself, LOL!

At present, tentative plan on, "have to move into the car day" is to basically load up with whatever possessions. (My life got paired downed to just what fits in the car years ago as I was trying to keep the career going and just wanted/needed to only have what fit in the car. Had hoped to buy a home again someday, couldn't see having a lot of stuff to move everytime I had a new contract 3 states away.) Pick a gun or two to toss in the car. Head for a warm clime. Perhaps SoCal to try and survive winter. Pawn what's left apart from survival needs. From there, can't really say. Strikes me as tough to engineer a re-entry into "normal" society once one gets that far down.

Hopefully something will turn in the near term and I'll get a reprieve. If not, guess I'm... well... screwed... as they say.

Thanks for the insights and inputs. I'll be watching for any new posts until the day arrives.

[jlwilliams]

What is it that you do?  Maybe instead of survival advice, one of us may know of an oportunity that doesn't involve going 'ogg the grid'.

[bilmac]

Thanks for the sidebar  JL. I have a squirrel that cleaned out my corn patch, but I never see him.

[SHOOTALL]

A good 308 rifle ( I would like a bolt gun myself ) , add a few chamber adapters in 30 carbine . The 30 carbine wold take the place of a 22 mag. It could be used up close for alot of defense ( reason for several adapters ) and small game hunting up to small deer. One could tote a 30 car in chamber backed by several 308's in the mag. if a bolt repeter was the gun.
The same could be accomplished with a 223 and 22 mag adapters for weight savings.
As for a hand gun maybe a small 9mm or 38/357mag J frame that could be hidden , maybe 2 .
 I would not discount a shotgun either . A 20 ga. can be as lite as many rifles. In a survival situation you may have to shoot fast or when you are not in top physical condition. Your aim might not be as it was at the bench after a good meal. You may have injury etc. If you wear glasses and damage or lose them the shotgun may be your only/best option.

[reliquary]

Flmason:
 
I don't remember i you ever told us where you are now, what education/training/skill level you have, your age, etc.  Depending on what it is that you can do, there are lots of jobs in the oil&gas patch in East Texas.  Lots of these are entry level/manual labor.  If you have the stamina and can pass the background check/drug screen, you can find work here: Harrison County, Rusk county, Panola Count, Shelby County.  The only two papers whose online adresses I know are Shelbycounttoday.com and panolawatchman.com.  Check out the ads. 
 
In addition, there are numerous openings for folks with CDLs and in helper-level construction work.  The recession isn't as bad here as in other places.
 
The area has several good-sized lakes with various camping facilities, and a lot of National Forest area with campgrounds.  There are several modest-to-really-cheap cabins and trailers around the lakes, and some of the local motels have good transient facilities.

[SHOOTALL]

If you get off the interstate and big roads there is always a old motel that rents rooms by the week for alot less than some camp sites

[Lost Farmboy]

Now that you told us more about you situation a Rossi matched pair in 22 LR/20 ga would be better than a Trificta. The 22 LR/20 ga will hunt anything you need. You will not have the ability to store large game anyway. You are not interested in the 243 and 44 mag the Trificta comes with anyway. If you need one you can get a rifle later.

I wouldn't try to tuff it out in the wild unless there is a total breakdown of civilization. That hasn't happened. Try to find work, any kind of work. I was with in weeks of the situation your talking about in 2008. Then I found the best job of my life. If you have to move to your car get a track phone. I payed $10 for mine and pay $19 for 3 months. Use it for seeking employment opportunities only. You should be able to buy a used laptop with wi-fi. It will help you find a job somewhere and you have a support group here. I had Boingo wireless wifi for $9 a month, with lots of hot spots available.

Relocating might be a good idea. Just don't give up.

[jlwilliams]

  Second that about the pre paid cell phone.  You will need that to get any sort of employment.
 
  A thing to think about for a job while you are looking for better work.  Dish washers generally get a meal during their shift.  Also, consider a job as an overnight shelf stocker in a supermarket.  A formenr co-worker of mine did that when he was cut from full time to part time.  The job included a generous employee discount on food.  Working overnight also gives you a place to be at night, which is when you'd be most likely to get arrested for sleeping in a car (or worse things that sometimes happen at night to the homeless).  Also, hospital orderlies generally get access to a cafeteria.  Just think of places with food, and try to get work there.  May not be what you want to do or are good at, but it could hold you over long enough to get something more to your liking.  Dishwashers and stockers also know what's headed for the dumpster.  Supermarkets throw tons of canned and dry goods out that are past date but still good.  Always get a manager's permission to put dumpster bound stuff into  a box.  It's not uncommon for employees to get some freebies like that, if they ask.
 
  Another note about van selection.  Try to get one without windows.  That way you can put a curtain behind the drivers/ passenger's seats.  Then if you are sleeping inside and the vehicle is looked over, there is no plain sight evidence that the vehicle is inhabited.  Pull into a WalMart parking lot (where you can use the rest rooms and buy water cheaper than anywhere) and slip behind the curtain.
 
  I keep harping on the van idea.  That's because a van can be a shelter, a workshop or office (depending on what you do) anything you need it to be.  I've known people who lived out of vans.  Some for vacations, others for....extended improvisations.  A van could be the single best asset.  If you can get a windowless work van (or caravan, less fuel) you have options that a car won't give you.  Use it as home base for days you have work, drive it to some state forest (or whatever) for fishing/ hunting/ camping when you don't.

[mannyrock]

 
Flmason,
 
   I know that you are probably humilated and very depressed by your current situation.  But, I think that the most useful advice you are getting here is that there is simply no reason for you to fall into the life of being a tramp, a bum.  I apologize for saying this, but your posts seem to indicate that you believe that this is inevitable, and that you are actually planning for it, or have "accepted" it.  There is no reason whatsoever for this to happen.
 
  Dropping off the grid may sound attractive in a "back to nature" sense, but it will be a filthy, stinking, humiliating way to live.  I guarantee that you will end up fishing for food out of garbage cans.
 
   The way the highway system works in America today, you can find a campsite in a park within a 45 minutes drive of any wealthy suburb, and the suburbs are where the money is.
 
   Get a van, get a cell phone, get prepared, and move upward, not downward.
 
Best of Luck, 
Mannyrock
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

Flmason,
 
   I know that you are probably humilated and very depressed by your current situation.  But, I think that the most useful advice you are getting here is that there is simply no reason for you to fall into the life of being a tramp, a bum.  I apologize for saying this, but your posts seem to indicate that you believe that this is inevitable, and that you are actually planning for it, or have "accepted" it.  There is no reason whatsoever for this to happen.
 
  Dropping off the grid may sound attractive in a "back to nature" sense, but it will be a filthy, stinking, humiliating way to live.  I guarantee that you will end up fishing for food out of garbage cans.
 
   The way the highway system works in America today, you can find a campsite in a park within a 45 minutes drive of any wealthy suburb, and the suburbs are where the money is.
 
   Get a van, get a cell phone, get prepared, and move upward, not downward.
 
Best of Luck, 
Mannyrock

Good advice. I live near a campground and it has quite a few residents that came here for work . Some have been there for years.

[Victor3]

Yes, the issue of how to stay clean looking, basic hygiene etc. has crossed my mind, whether I end up in a urban/suburban situation or actually "take to the hills", no doubt about that.

Also the issue of LEO's etc. has crossed my mind. In my quick survey there seems to be nowhere in the lower 48 that covers the following points that you wouldn't get run out of eventually:

1) Clean potable water
2) Survivable Winter
3) Enough to Eat
4) Not so hot you'll evaporate.

For example, Angeles National Forest hits most of the things you'd need to survive... but there pot growers and rangers out there. Not to mention fires.

Regions more notherly, well think of the Donner Party.

In any event, coming up with 1-2 lbs. of food a day, could be difficult in the wrong environment.

Agreed, it one "hits the hills" trapping is probably a key skill. Actually any foraging technique that doesn't burn ammo. Bunny stick, snares and traps, bow, etc.

I can see why so many homeless folks ultimately opt for the city route. Probably easier to forage in LA, if the other homeless folks don't kill you. But being an older guy and not particularly bid and "badass", I'd actually rather take my chances in the woods than say Skid Row, Los Angeles.

That said, apart from some minor hunting skills. but lots of firearms experience, I'm not truly equiped with the skills to do it. If it goes that way, it'll be rough, if not short. Perhaps the only shot I'll be taking is on myself, LOL!

At present, tentative plan on, "have to move into the car day" is to basically load up with whatever possessions. (My life got paired downed to just what fits in the car years ago as I was trying to keep the career going and just wanted/needed to only have what fit in the car. Had hoped to buy a home again someday, couldn't see having a lot of stuff to move everytime I had a new contract 3 states away.) Pick a gun or two to toss in the car. Head for a warm clime. Perhaps SoCal to try and survive winter. Pawn what's left apart from survival needs. From there, can't really say. Strikes me as tough to engineer a re-entry into "normal" society once one gets that far down.

Hopefully something will turn in the near term and I'll get a reprieve. If not, guess I'm... well... screwed... as they say.

 flmason,
 
 A few points if I may (in no particular order), related to where I've highlighted above...
 
 Until I was ~14 years old I spent most every weekend year 'round camping/shooting/hunting with my Dad in the Angeles and Los Padres National Forests and the Mojave Desert. The mountains here in SoCal are no less cold in Winter than anywhere else. Most of the dirt roads that were open when I was a kid have now been closed by the Forest Service to reduce the likelyhood of people starting forest fires. Also, you need to either get a permit from the Rangers to have a fire (or even to use a gas stove) if you want to cook outside of an established campground. You'll need to buy and display what the Forest Service calls an "Adventure Pass" ($35/year IIRC) to park off of the highway. Can't hunt with lead bullets because both Angeles & Los Padres are in the "Condor Zone." I'd starve trying to snare, bow hunt or otherwise kill animals without a gun there. Not enough game to be had most areas that are easy to get to. Nowadays where Dad and I used to frequent, if we see a Ranger he usually makes contact to make sure we're doing everything legal. Never used to be that way.
 
 My Dad and I were friendly with a hermit who lived near where we camped sometimes. Boy did he have some stories. Mostly unpleasant ones. This guy was a young, tough SOB and even he, experienced as he was at living in harsh conditions, eventually took a job as a caretaker on one of the local ranches to have reliable heat, enough to eat and a truck to drive into town.
 
 In other words, I don't recommend making a go of it in our local mountains. In Winter, without a 4WD, a ton of gear and a lot of experience you won't last long. Even with those things it would suck big time.
 
 On the other hand, some places in SoCal are great for folks living out of a vehicle to spend the Winter. There are nice campgrounds all over the place, even within the cities. There's one right on the beach near me a mile South of LAX. Google up what's available; you'd be surprised.
 
 Santa Monica has a bunch of homeless shelters, missions, YMCA facilities where folks are fed, clothed and provided showers, etc. No need to go to a craphole like downtown LA to find such services. Don't think I could starve (or freeze) here on the coast If I tried. Most every Church has some kind of a food program. Guy who ended up running the one at my old Church originally wandered into it as a homeless drunk.
 
 I hope and will pray that things turn around for you quickly.
 

[SHOOTALL]

A guy that is transit and living off the land could be a scape goat for crimes commited by others . Something to consider but then 3 hots and a cot may work .

[Spirithawk]

Well, how about 2 guns that get almost everything except high capacity? 
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/229/products_id/60296
They also make a .410-.22 version, although I couldn't find the link.  It gives you .223 mil-surp capability and also was available in .308 or .30-06 & 12 ga.  but you also have .22 for small game and carrying lots of ammo and with .410, albeit more expensive to buy, reloading brass shotshells can be quite doable with minimal fuss using .444 brass for small game also.  And 12 ga. is obviously very versatile.  Under 1k and (4) roads to travel.    I love having a pistol also, but to someone who isn't proficient with a pistol, it's more of a detriment.  An  inexpensive .357/.38 capable handgun can be a good plus and pretty easy for ammo pricing and availability.  Rossi makes a nice 66 with 4" blue barrel and adj. sights under 300 bucks too. 
***edit***
Ok been trying to get some better links for above, but Davidson's isn't very responsive today.  This link should bring up all the USSG long arms and the dual calibers are towards the bottom of the page:  http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?pg=list&mfg=USSG+Inc&mdl=All&cat=2&type=All&cal=All&fin=&sit=&zipcode=48858
They don't have pictures for them all, but do have 308-12ga & 3006-12ga in stock.
 
One other combo that could be good is what I'm putting together and that's my 45LC Blackhawk (Convertible, so can do .45ACP also), .45 LC Carbine (H&R), .45 LC Rossi B-92 lever gun.  Combine those with a decent 22 and you are just over 1k with some shopping around.  And add a 12 ga. Barrel to the Carbine for your shotgun.  It's not basement cheap, but gets you a lot of flexibility.  I load LC loads from .451 RB to 325gr. Leads and many in between.  With a couple different powders, ie. Unique and Reloader7, I can load from super mild small game loads and shot shells up to big medicine level for bears etc.  It gets you a repeater also with the Levergun and while not a semi-auto, I bet I can keep your head down a while.    Anyway, being able to use one set of molds for most of the loading means with salvaged lead you can make a wide variety of bullets and even shot.  You can use Magtech or Rocky Mountain Cartridge brass shotgun shells for multiple times also.

A light weight drilling would be the thing I'd think. .22, .308, 12 or 20 guage, and then the handgun. Not sure such a thing ever existed though. Would probably be hideously expensive as well.

  Yes they were made, and this one has been my "go to gun" for more than 25 years now,
 

 
  It has worked out perfectly for me...
 
  DM

Man, that is just wayyyy cool. Never seen one before but I can sure see how it would be a very handy firearm to have.

[vacek]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a Handi Survivor 45 / 410 and am pretty impressed.  I have a soft military style case for it. For about a total of 15 lbs have a nice supply of ammo, reloading components and equipment (Lee Loaders for 45 and 410).  Currently carrying a little Unique and 2400, but given time I am going to work up a load with Alliant's 410 so I can carry one powder for the 45 and the 410.  I know 2400 probably would do ok in the 45 Colt but haven't worked on that either.
 
This case also includes a Lee mold for 230 grain 45 and their little ladel as well.  200 Large Pistol Primers and 100 Shotgun primers (The Remington 410's that I got on clearance).
 
Anyway, its my new truck gun.  I don't have a problem with 410.  I have hunted with that gauge since I was 10 and have had little problem taking rabbit and upland game and sane distance.
 
Oh, I got this at the gunshow by selling a Makarov to one dealer for the asking price of the Handi from another.

[reliquary]

flmason:
 
Have you made any decisions yet and what are they?  I'd kinda like for you to keep in touch here, to let us know how you're doing.

[flmason]

flmason:
 
Have you made any decisions yet and what are they?  I'd kinda like for you to keep in touch here, to let us know how you're doing.

Just checking back in. A job offer came my way here at the 11th hour, but half way across the county. Will be trying to get over there and get started, but at least it's something.

Basic decision on the firearm part was to go with .22, something defensive, and a shotgun. Picked up an H&R 20 Gauge Break action for the scattergun. Foolishly picked up a Nagant as well, write it off to stress and several years of pent up buying demand on my part, LOL! So final lineup I was planning on was .22 Ruger, 20 gauge H&R, and some .357 or .44 if something in budget crossed my path.

Am still considering a .22 revolver for the "cheap smallbore game getter" rather than a rifle. Easier to pack.

Have list of other tools I figure I should get (or was planning to get). Picked up some cheap lighters for fire, for example. Had machete, knife, small ax, leatherman tool and some files, believe it or not, on the list. Was figuring that with the amount of junk out there in the world, probably be able to fabricate other tools with some files. Somewhat of an offshoot of the whole study of primative survival. Knapping, bowmaking, etc.

Biggest problem is... "OK I live in the car... now what? Where to go? What mode of existance?"

Unfortunately, I don't think there's *anywhere* left in the continental U.S. where you could get away with it, and there's actually conditions one could make a go of it.

Battle plan was to load up the car and head back west, perhaps stop in Vegas and assess the gaming biz. Worked as a dealer in an interim years ago. But... heard unemployment out there was 20%. Well was actually told that by a nice gal at the Sahara where I used to work. I believe they've since closed that one.

To be honest to the folks that were saying, "You've accepted it." Yeah, one has to, to remain calm and sane, in all reality. But ultimately that doesn't contain an answer, just a relief of stress.

I suspect I may end up in this situation again, since the current offer is just a contract. Ultimately I need some newer more marketable skills. Conundrum is, when working, no time to upgrade, wjen on the curb... no money to invest in anything but living.

For now, battle plan is to go to this offer, make the best of it and try to establish some new direction that's less subject to obsolesence, offshoring, et. al.

For the moment, looks like there's a light on the horizon, but gut feeling is that it's temporary at best. So suffice to say, the struggle/journey isn't resolved for the long term by any stretch. Will definitely be under some serious stress for the foreseable future.

Let me take a minute to say thanks to everyone who gave this some serious consideration. Lots of good stuff in here. I suspect I will review it from time to time just to make sure I got it all.

[bilmac]

One small point, you say when you are working you have no time to upgrade, which I take to mean that you would have no time for education. I would say that work, if you apply yourself is an upgrade. Be the best man on the job, and you will advance.

Lots of very successful people today have bottomed out once, or several times, and they bounced back better than ever.

[blind ear]

Go to nursing school. I did at age 54. You may hate the job and love the work or vice versa but you can get a job anywhere that you go. ear

[jlwilliams]

Glad to hear back from you and glad you have got some releaf, even if it's only temporary.
 
  You may find that being broke makes education much more afordable.  I'm taking some classes at a community college to brush up and update my skills.  Paying full price (because I don't qualify for a break) is a bit steep but there is nothing but help for those who need it and ask for it.  Drop by and find out what's available in your area.  Let them know you are broke and want to learn and work, they will be happy to help.  You may be amazed at the resources available at local comm colleges.  Classes that are geared toward jobs in the area and employers trolling for help all in one building.  (If they have a gym you can use their showers too, just the benny a man living in a vehicle can use)

[flmason]

Glad to hear back from you and glad you have got some releaf, even if it's only temporary.
 
  You may find that being broke makes education much more afordable.  I'm taking some classes at a community college to brush up and update my skills.  Paying full price (because I don't qualify for a break) is a bit steep but there is nothing but help for those who need it and ask for it.  Drop by and find out what's available in your area.  Let them know you are broke and want to learn and work, they will be happy to help.  You may be amazed at the resources available at local comm colleges.  Classes that are geared toward jobs in the area and employers trolling for help all in one building.  (If they have a gym you can use their showers too, just the benny a man living in a vehicle can use)

Well, that's certainly a creative approach. Would not have thought of it!

[flmason]

Go to nursing school. I did at age 54. You may hate the job and love the work or vice versa but you can get a job anywhere that you go. ear

It's certainly an interesting choice. I don't believe I'm cut out for it or I'd have gone in for medicine young. Something about disecting cadavers put me off, LOL!

But it *does* meet one requirement I should've been thinking about when I was younger... ability to find work in any zip code on the map.

[flmason]

One small point, you say when you are working you have no time to upgrade, which I take to mean that you would have no time for education. I would say that work, if you apply yourself is an upgrade. Be the best man on the job, and you will advance.

Lots of very successful people today have bottomed out once, or several times, and they bounced back better than ever.

Some definite truth in that. But I've found being great at something, unless it's core business and irreplaceable, doesn't overcome politics and the like.