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Author Topic: .44 mag ammo  (Read 1585 times)

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Offline TAR12

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.44 mag ammo
« on: September 18, 2011, 03:44:43 AM »
Has anyone had the chance to take any game with the Barnes VOR-TX XPB 225 grn ammo? Thanks in advance..
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Offline flinthead

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 02:26:15 PM »
I have two handi 44's... a camo stock 22" barrel and a Talo Trapper. Not what you asked, but the Winchester USA white box 240's shoot awesome, kill critters dead, and are best of all,,, cheap. I say this because I have bought high $ ammo for mine and it didn't shoot nearly as well.
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 05:05:20 PM »
Do you have any idea what the twist rate is on these .44s? I will give the white box winchesters a go.Thanks
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 07:07:13 PM »
The .44 mag Handi rifle has a 1 in 38" rifle twist rate.

Tony
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Offline Spanky

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 08:20:05 AM »
Quote from: flinthead on September 18, 2011, 02:26:15 PM
I have two handi 44's... a camo stock 22" barrel and a Talo Trapper. Not what you asked, but the Winchester USA white box 240's shoot awesome, kill critters dead, and are best of all,,, cheap. I say this because I have bought high $ ammo for mine and it didn't shoot nearly as well.

 
+1 to the Winchester ammo.
My CVA Scout will shoot a one hole group with it and it kills the hell out of deer.
 
 
 
Spanky
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 04:20:36 PM »
Thanks for of the replies...I talked to Barnes today about the 225 grn VOR-TX offering and they said it would not stabilize in a 1-38 twist barrel due to the length of the 225 BUT he said the 200 would stabilize. I will have to roll my own if I go that route.For now I am going to take the advice of you gents and pick up some of the white box winchesters and run them over the chrony this weeknd and see what kind of numbers they put up and check the accuracy.
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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 03:32:56 PM »
twist on 44 mag barrels is 1-38.  It will stable bullets up to 300 grains.  The 240 grainers are good for any deer hog or black
bear (up to 350 pounds).
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 04:25:10 PM »
Anybody here tried Hornady Lever Evolution bullets in a .44 mag?  The published loads for these are all light because for a lever gun or revolver the bullet has to be seated way deep but it seems for a Handi this wouldn't be the case.

Anyway I have a box on order and I'm looking forward to trying them...

Tony
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 05:35:15 PM »
Quote from: geezerbiker on September 21, 2011, 04:25:10 PM
Anybody here tried Hornady Lever Evolution bullets in a .44 mag?  The published loads for these are all light because for a lever gun or revolver the bullet has to be seated way deep but it seems for a Handi this wouldn't be the case.

Anyway I have a box on order and I'm looking forward to trying them...

Tony

 
Yes I have in my daughters H&R .44 mag. They are extremely accurate in it. Following is a pic from the first dial in session. Impressive for out of the box. They have accounted for 4 deer BUT I was not impressed on the last one as a finishing shot was needed on a rather small doe shot in the shoulder. The shoulder was rendered useless but she still got up and made it 50 yds. It fragged pretty good upon impact/entry and did not stay the course. The group in the right hand corner was a 8 shot group at 50yds.
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »
Hornady Custom ammo with the 240 grain XTP bullets works great in my Handi rifle.
 
I'm going to handload some cast "Keith Style" bullets this year and see how they do. I found some I really like at Beartooth Bullets.
 
Fred
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 05:46:01 PM »
Quote from: SwampThing762 on September 21, 2011, 03:32:56 PM
twist on 44 mag barrels is 1-38.  It will stable bullets up to 300 grains.  The 240 grainers are good for any deer hog or black
bear (up to 350 pounds).
I was talking about all copper bullets. It was my understanding that the copper bullets length is  increased considerably due to copper being lighter than lead leading to the insatabiliy in the 1-38 twist.  I have shot the 300 grn XTP out of this gun and they did indeed stabilize. I am just wanting a copper bullet if possible. I shoot Barnes expanders out of my H&R Ultra 20 ga and the 195BX all copper Barnes out of my custom Savage smokeless .45 muzzy and I absolutley love the way they perform on game. Thanks for the info.
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 05:48:02 PM »
Fred are you talking about the 240 grn XTP Mag?
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 07:23:44 PM »
Quote from: TAR12 on September 21, 2011, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: geezerbiker on September 21, 2011, 04:25:10 PM
Anybody here tried Hornady Lever Evolution bullets in a .44 mag? 

Yes I have in my daughters H&R .44 mag. They are extremely accurate in it. Following is a pic from the first dial in session. Impressive for out of the box. They have accounted for 4 deer BUT I was not impressed on the last one as a finishing shot was needed on a rather small doe shot in the shoulder. The shoulder was rendered useless but she still got up and made it 50 yds. It fragged pretty good upon impact/entry and did not stay the course. The group in the right hand corner was a 8 shot group at 50yds.

Those are some impressive groups.  How hot did you load them?  We're out on our own on these but since they're 225 grains, I figured I'd start with 240g XTP data and work up...

Tony
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 08:14:25 PM »
Quote from: geezerbiker on September 21, 2011, 07:23:44 PM

 We're out on our own on these but since they're 225 grains, I figured I'd start with 240g XTP data and work up...

Tony

How bout just using Hornady data! Hornady has data for most of the FTX bullets including the 225gr FTX in the 44mag rifle. ;D

http://www.hornady.com/support/downloads/load-data

Here's a 225gr FTX ammo 100yd group from my 44mag Handi with a WGRS peep and Williams Firesight.

Tim

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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 03:58:46 AM »
Here you go !  I use the 240 grain XTP.
 
http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-240-gr-XTP/
 
 
 
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2011, 01:03:29 PM »
Tony,
        These groups were shot using the Hornady factory loaded LEVERevolution 225 grn FTX ammo. Part no. 92782. The box has them rated at 1410fps.
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2011, 01:06:05 PM »
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2011, 01:37:00 PM »
Quote from: TAR12 on September 22, 2011, 01:03:29 PM
Tony,
        These groups were shot using the Hornady factory loaded LEVERevolution 225 grn FTX ammo. Part no. 92782. The box has them rated at 1410fps.

That's from a 7½" barrel, they rate them at 1870fps from a 20" barrel which is about ~100fps faster than actual, I got an average out of 5 shots of 1763fps from my 22" Handi, highest was 1816fps, low was 1724fps.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-225-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2011, 05:01:31 PM »
Good shooting with the irons Tim...I am going to run them over the chrony this weekend and run some my buddy loaded for me this week. It is always interesting to compare numbers. Do you have any idea what powder Hornady is using?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2011, 06:06:21 PM »
Probably a proprietary blend, but it could be Lil'gun too.

thanks,

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/44RemMagFTXRifle.pdf
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2011, 07:12:24 PM »
Speaking of LilGun...I saw some recipes on Handloader I believe it was and compared some H110 loads VS LilGun and the LilGun was getting it there faster with less pressure.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2011, 08:08:08 PM »
Yup, I've used it in all my pistol chambered Handis except the 445.  ;)

Tim
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2011, 12:47:28 AM »
For some reason Hornady only list Lil, Gun for the 225 FTX in the .44 mag rifle loads.  I think it's a faster powder than H110 or 2400.   

so far I'm pleased with Lil, Gun so far in .22 K-Hornet loads but I've yet to try it in other rounds.

I don't think I'm going to have enough time to dial in FTX loads before deer season so I'm planning to stick with 240g XTP bullets this year.  I still think I can dial in a better load by seating the FTX bullets out long and loading them with 2400...  The motorcycle season is refusing to let up so it'll have to wait.  I won't be using the .44 for elk so after deer season is over, the .44 is going into the safe for the rest of the year.

Tony
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Offline TAR12

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2011, 09:11:13 AM »
Aguila also uses LilGun in their .22 LR max offering.
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2011, 02:37:38 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on September 24, 2011, 10:23:58 AM
What about AA#9, 2400, ENFORCER, 296 and 110 in addition to lil'gun!!  ???

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/44RemMagFTXRifle.pdf

Tim

You don't get it...  Compare the velocity of the 225 FTX with the 240 XTP top loads.    A lighter bullet shouldn't have lower velocity than a heavier one all other things being equal.  The 225g FTX is seated so deep to function in lever action rifles that the powder capacity is seriously diminished.

Now if it were loaded only to the same depth in the case as a 240 XTP and  had a full load of 2400, the 225 FTX should be faster not slower that the 240 XTP.

Tony
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2011, 02:54:35 PM »
Tony,

You're right, it certainly would help if you had said what you meant instead of what you said, they don't list only Lil'gun, so I stand by my response, we aren't mind readers.  ::) But yes, seating depth has a great influence on pressure, that's one advantage handloading for deep throated H&Rs have over a repeater, a fella can increase the COL  and powder to a point to gain a bit of velocity and actually lower pressure, if you work with internal ballistic software, it's real easy to see that by increasing or decreasing seating depth without changing the charge. 

Tim
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2011, 04:41:33 PM »
Reread what I said.  I said that Lil' Gun power is only listed for one bullet in the .44 mag rifle section of the manual.  Not that Lil' Gun was the only powder listed.  I was very precise in my statement.

Tony
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Offline BBF

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Re: .44 mag ammo
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2011, 06:03:57 AM »
The top load of H-110 pushing the Hdy 240 gr XTP was my best load in a Ruger Lever Carbine.
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