Author Topic: Would you have said something in the middle of a transaction? (Read 1401 times)

bulletstuffer · « **on:** September 18, 2011, 07:18:36 AM »

I was at Cabelas and an older gentleman brought in two guns to sell. One shotgun and a lever action 30 30. I didn't hear what the offer was on the shotgun but the sales rep said he would give the guy $175 for the lever action and the would sell it for $250. I haven't seen a lever action for sale there much under $400.

Cabelas has to pay bills to keep the business running and I felt like I was in their house. I did not say anything. Would you have said something?

Thank you,

Bulletstuffer

blind ear · « **Reply #1 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:22:33 AM »

I would have doen what I felt was right. You were in a coorporate house, it has no soul or loyalty. The sales people there might not have had as much loyalty to Cabelas as you did to your concious. ear

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:36:47 AM »

If I had the cash in my pocket and intend to buy it from the individual right then, yes I would say something. Otherwise it's really not my business. You are going to take it in the shorts anytime you sell to a dealer, they are there for their own profit not yours. You pay for the convenience of selling it right there, right then, and not dithering around with unknown buyers and shipping and ad nauseum factors.

I agree Cabelas is near the worst but Gander Mt will not be underclassed in my opinion.

DDZ · « **Reply #3 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:44:45 AM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on September 18, 2011, 07:36:47 AM

If I had the cash in my pocket and intend to buy it from the individual right then, yes I would say something. Otherwise it's really not my business. You are going to take it in the shorts anytime you sell to a dealer, they are there for their own profit not yours. You pay for the convenience of selling it right there, right then, and not dithering around with unknown buyers and shipping and ad nauseum factors.

I agree Cabelas is near the worst but Gander Mt will not be underclassed in my opinion.

I agree, its the same as trading in a used car at a dealership. You will not get what it is actually worth. You are paying for the convenience.
If I was interested in the gun, I would not have hesitated one bit to make a deal on it.

Brett · « **Reply #4 on:** September 18, 2011, 05:38:21 PM »

Like the others have said, if it was a piece I was interested and had the cash I would definitely stepped on the clerks toes.

lakota · « **Reply #5 on:** September 19, 2011, 07:39:07 AM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on September 18, 2011, 07:36:47 AM

...Gander Mt will not be underclassed in my opinion.

I agree 110% The Gander Mountain stores in my area are flat out thieves when it comes to firearms. All of their new guns are priced at MSRP all of the used guns are ridiculous as well. The other day they had a cheap stamped reciever Romanian WASR 10 AK-47 on the USED gun rack-they wanted $599 dollars for it and I'll bet the gave the poor sap that sold or traded it to them $150.

I once tried to trade them a very nice Ruger M77 MKII in .223. I wanted an outright trade for an Encore frame. The jerk manager offered me $75 for the Ruger. If I repeated what I said to him here I probably wouldnt be posting again.

Oh and just about all of the clerks there are smug know it alls and always want to put their 2 cents in on everything bought. I once bought a box of cast bullets and the moron at the counter asked why I has shooting those old fashioned "aluminum" bullets.

powderman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2011, 08:05:31 AM »

I once stepped in on a sale. A customer brought his 8mm mauser in to buy ammo for. The clerk looked it over and said, hmmmm, 7.92 mm, thats a 308 win and proceeded to sell him a box. YEP, I stopped it. POWDERMAN.

lakota · « **Reply #7 on:** September 19, 2011, 09:02:48 AM »

Quote from: powderman on September 19, 2011, 08:05:31 AM

I once stepped in on a sale. A customer brought his 8mm mauser in to buy ammo for. The clerk looked it over and said, hmmmm, 7.92 mm, thats a 308 win and proceeded to sell him a box. YEP, I stopped it. POWDERMAN.

I guess thats what they get for hiring anyone with a pulse to work at the gun counter. I am a big fan of traditional muzzleloaders that fire real blackpowder. Sometimes I cringe to think of one of these big box gun counter commandos selling a guy thats new to the hobby a sidelock muzzleloader and then selling him a can of Bullseye pistol powder to shoot it with. I'm sure that it has probably happened somewhere.

Old Fart · « **Reply #8 on:** September 19, 2011, 09:05:16 AM »

Never hurts to educate yourself a little before heading in to one of these shops.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2011, 10:29:10 AM »

Inadvertently, I "stepped on" a salesman's purchase of a used Marlin 336C in 30-30 caliber. When the gun was being high-ported by the salesman from one end of the building, I followed in hopes of inquiring about purchase for myself, unknowing that it was about to be sold by its owner to the store.

When I asked the clerk if that gun was for sale, the gun's owner immediately spoke up to say "Yes. For $175.00." I said "Good price" and the store clerk came unglued. He immediately threatened to "...call the sheriff if money changes hands in 'my' store...". What got under his saddle blanket I wondered?

"Let's leave!" I said, and we did! The clerk's reaction, though unfortunate, didn't bother me a bit at the time. "Sucks to be him." I thought and "Wow! did I ever luck out." I have pondered it since.

I suppose the clerk could have told me that a deal was being done for purchase by the Store, which would have given me considerable pause. I certainly would have had a better feeling about that store. But threatening us? That is where my sensibilities drew a line. I left with clear conscience.

Now, I can think of no better way to show my "appreciation" than to "stake out" that shop for "short circuiting" the sale before the Vultures inside the store give wholesale pricing.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:59:31 PM »

True business ethics dictate that you never step into someone elses deal unless you are invited, no matter where the deal is being conducted.
That person has first shot.
If it is offered to you after the other person says he is not interested (or words to that effect) then and only then may you strike up a deal.
There has been many a deal I would have loved to have made, some for more money than the asking price but I remained quite.
You just don't do things like that.
That's about like you trying to sell yours at a certain price and someone else stepping in and saying that he has one just like it for less.
Kind of kills your deal and I am sure you would not like it very much.
I know I wouldn't!
Sorry, I don't do business like that.
Just a few months ago I missed a ANIB Ruger ALASKAN in 454 for $300.00 because another person was talking to the guy about it.
I remained quite but you can bet I was standing right there had he hesitated.
As far as the salesman stating that he would call the police, that's a little overboard but he was within his rights.
You are not allowed to buy or sell in someone else's commercial place of business except to that business.
That is a no no.
Legally you can't even do it outside on their propriety.
Only at an auction are you allowed to and then you are suppose to go inside and report the transaction to the office and pay a commission.
That is the law.
Some auction firms won't allow a private transaction at all.
It is their right.

LONGTOM

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #11 on:** September 19, 2011, 06:42:56 PM »

Land_Owner - the way you described the situation, I can see your point. Also based on your description, I am led to believe that this was a small (not corporate type) store. So I can see the reason for the owners reaction to your offer to purchase the gun. What you did is take money out of his (the store owners') pocket. That said, I personally feel the clerks response was a bit extreme. He would have been within his rights to call the police, but could he have had you arrested for making an offer? I don't believe so, but he could have had you removed from his store.

LONGTOM - is correct in his description of business ethics. IMO, if you would have run into the seller, before he had a deal going with the store, you would have been okay.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 19, 2011, 07:28:56 PM »

I would not say a word under thier roof. You did the right thing IMO. Its not like it was a rip off happening. The guy should know what his guns are worth and what a fair market trade in/wholesale value is. If not, thats his fault.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2011, 03:07:01 AM »

I would have kept my mouth shut too. The deal was between the seller and the house. The seller could easily have said 'thanks, but no thanks'. Then you would have been OK to offer him your phone number to talk about a deal later.

The situation that Powderman mentioned with a clerk selling the wrong ammo, that's different and speaking up was the right thing to do.

Landowner's situation is kind of unique. You asked the clerk if it was for sale, and the seller then swithched horses from the store to you. You did the right thing by asking the clerk, but maybe you could have done so without the seller hearing it. He did hear it, and things unfolded as they did. The clerk could have handled it more gracefully by simply speaking up and saying "The house is buying this gun right now. I'd be happy to show it to you after we have put it into inventory" . You started OK by asking the clerk, but the deal went screwey from there.

blind ear · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2011, 03:30:24 AM »

Quote from: jlwilliams on September 20, 2011, 03:07:01 AM

I would have kept my mouth shut too. The deal was between the seller and the house.

If the butyer had been an individual and not a coorporation I might have stayed out. If the deal wasn't "fair" even with an individual I would have stepped in.

The "rules of business" are to protect business, much like coorporate "rules" and have nothing to do with individuals and right and fairness. Those kinds rules are what is killing our country. Who says the rules are right? Those rules only serve those that made the rule. ear

pastorp · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:18:37 AM »

You never said what the rifle was or the condition. It may actually been worth $250 at retail like they told him.. I would need more info to decide. But no it's considered improper to but in on a transaction in progress.

So I would not a said anything.

Regards,

Brett · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2011, 06:10:26 PM »

Quote from: blind ear on September 23, 2011, 03:30:24 AM

Quote from: jlwilliams on September 20, 2011, 03:07:01 AM
I would have kept my mouth shut too. The deal was between the seller and the house.

If the butyer had been an individual and not a coorporation I might have stayed out. If the deal wasn't "fair" even with an individual I would have stepped in.

The "rules of business" are to protect business, much like coorporate "rules" and have nothing to do with individuals and right and fairness. Those kinds rules are what is killing our country. Who says the rules are right? Those rules only serve those that made the rule. ear

I was beginning to think that I was the only one with this opinion.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2011, 08:00:33 PM »

Quote

The "rules of business" are to protect business, much like corporate "rules" and have nothing to do with individuals and right and fairness. Those kinds rules are what is killing our country. Who says the rules are right? Those rules only serve those that made the rule. ear

I have to disagree with you on this.
Didn't no company make me run my business by the rules I use.
It is the way we chose to do it.
The same way I would want to be treated where ever I may choose to deal.
I don't care if it is a business or a private person, you don't conduct business that way .
It is wrong.
THAT, is what is killing our country.
People with no ethics stepping in on someone elses business.
If you don't care what people think of you as a reputable person or are only going to stay in one place a short time, grab what you can and then move on, then go ahead and conduct your business that way.
It won't take people long to know you for what you really are.
If you intend to stay in the same area and deal with the same people over and over then you better treat them right if you want them to keep coming back.
I have seen this all my life.
Someone new comes in and flys high for a while then they are gone while the ones that conduct their business correctly are still there for years and years.
In business you are not just selling an item, you are selling yourself.
You are trying to gain their trust and even their friendship.
That way you know you don't have to run and hide if & when they ever come back.
It has been stated right here on GBO about how some of the businesses treat their customers.
From Midway USA to Remington to Lee to H&R along with so many others.
By the same token, read about the some of the companies that have bent over backwards to help their customers out in any way they can.
I would much rather have someone talking for me than against me.
My Grandfather and my Father were very wise & ran very successful businesses by doing it the old fashioned way, the right way, the way their Fathers taught them.
One of their sayings was, ("A SATISFIED CUSTOMER IS A SALESMAN THAT WORKS FOR NOTHING AND BOARDS HIMSELF").
I know that this has been a main stay in my business since day one and will always be what I strive for.
The day I can't do this in all honesty then that is the day I will cease to be in business!!!

Now, Please explain how these rules are killing our country.

LONGTOM

jhm · « **Reply #18 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:31:02 AM »

We DONT allow private deals to take place in or on the pawn shops property, We have several deals spoke abt. but the actual meeting and dealing in the shop is a no no, if we are talking with a customer and someone we think is interested and we are not we may say if you 2 can get together on it go elsewhere and put it together just not here. Jim

blind ear · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:39:46 AM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on September 23, 2011, 08:00:33 PM

Quote
The "rules of business" are to protect business, much like corporate "rules" and have nothing to do with individuals and right and fairness. Those kinds rules are what is killing our country. Who says the rules are right? Those rules only serve those that made the rule. ear

I have to disagree with you on this.
Didn't no company make me run my business by the rules I use.
It is the way we chose to do it.
The same way I would want to be treated where ever I may choose to deal.
I don't care if it is a business or a private person, you don't conduct business that way .
It is wrong.
THAT, is what is killing our country.
People with no ethics stepping in on someone elses business.
If you don't care what people think of you as a reputable person or are only going to stay in one place a short time, grab what you can and then move on, then go ahead and conduct your business that way.
It won't take people long to know you for what you really are.
If you intend to stay in the same area and deal with the same people over and over then you better treat them right if you want them to keep coming back.
I have seen this all my life.
Someone new comes in and flys high for a while then they are gone while the ones that conduct their business correctly are still there for years and years.
In business you are not just selling an item, you are selling yourself.
You are trying to gain their trust and even their friendship.
That way you know you don't have to run and hide if & when they ever come back.
It has been stated right here on GBO about how some of the businesses treat their customers.
From Midway USA to Remington to Lee to H&R along with so many others.
By the same token, read about the some of the companies that have bent over backwards to help their customers out in any way they can.
I would much rather have someone talking for me than against me.
My Grandfather and my Father were very wise & ran very successful businesses by doing it the old fashioned way, the right way, the way their Fathers taught them.
One of their sayings was, ("A SATISFIED CUSTOMER IS A SALESMAN THAT WORKS FOR NOTHING AND BOARDS HIMSELF").
I know that this has been a main stay in my business since day one and will always be what I strive for.
The day I can't do this in all honesty then that is the day I will cease to be in business!!!

Now, Please explain how these rules are killing our country.

LONGTOM

yep, people letting other people get cheated and saying it is custom or good business or whatever excuse

is exactly what is wrong with this country.

ear

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2011, 08:03:36 AM »

Quote

yep, people letting other people get cheated and saying it is custom or good business or whatever excuse

is exactly what is wrong with this country.

No one is talking about anyone getting cheated on a deal.
Price has nothing to do with it.
We are talking about butting in on someone elses deal before they are done.
If the deal is offered to you after a pending transaction has ended then you are free to pursue it, but not before.
I know what has worked for our family and businesses for over 4 generations in the same location dealing with some of the same families over & over again.

I guess we will just have to disagree on the way a business and their customers should be handled.

LONGTOM

bluedog6 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 24, 2011, 10:45:05 AM »

I have to agree about not sticking my nose in someone's trade. I don't do it and will not tolerate it if someone tries to do it to me, whether I am the buyer or the seller. I always wait until the transaction is complete or fails. Then and only then is it okay to ask about the item. If I am in a store I will ask the person in charge if it is okay with them.
It makes no difference if it is an individual or a corporation. You don't butt in on a trade. Period!
As far as the seller getting cheated,it all depends on how much the seller has in the item. It may very well be a $400.00 item, but if the seller has $100.00 in it and makes a $75.00 profit. How is he cheated? If you butt in you may very well cost the seller a chance to move an item for some much needed cash that day.

PowPow · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2011, 11:26:24 AM »

People who try to secure the same business that I am trying to secure are my competitors and are not welcome at my office.
My competitors are not allowed to hang around my office and see what business we were not able to secure.
Try to take the deal in the store and you are their competitior.

The guy has a lot of other opportunities to sell the gun; he can walkaway and sell it some other way, but he has chosen to benefit from the convienence.

Brett · « **Reply #23 on:** September 24, 2011, 11:33:47 AM »

If the business is trying to rip off this seller/customer I will assume that they would attempt to do the same to me and any one else who walks threw their doors so I have no sympathy for them. If it is a blatant rip off they are attempting I don't care if I squash their deal and don't care if I am ever allowed back in the store or not.

I would be more hesitant to butt in on a private deal but again it depends on the circumstances. For instance if it was a widow selling her late husband's guns or an elderly gentleman that I could tell did not have any clue as to the value of his guns I would still step in.

If it was your Mom or Dad selling those guns wouldn't you be grateful to someone who stepped in and informed them that they were being taken, or at least tell them what a fair price might be so that they could make a better informed decision?

PowPow · « **Reply #24 on:** September 24, 2011, 12:17:34 PM »

For those who would step in:
If the situation were reversed, if the customer was about to take advantage of a clerk in my Mom and Dad's shop, possibly by misrepresenting something, would you say something then ? What if its a big corporate store ?

Brett · « **Reply #25 on:** September 24, 2011, 01:09:33 PM »

Possibly, But I would expect a business owner to know his/her business. If a business cannot spot a forgery or fake they may be in the wrong business. If it was a young/inexperienced clerk I may say something like "You may want to run that this one past the boss to see what he says."

In short I don't feel that either side should profit unfairly at the expense of the other. This is the way I was taught to do business.

rio grande · « **Reply #26 on:** September 25, 2011, 06:31:43 AM »

I visit Pawn Shops often. Once I got royally chewed out for interfering in a deal.
So i learned to just gently kick their foot foot and motion 'em to come outside. Most customers were savvy enough to know what I mean.
Well, I must reconsider now, after reading some of the comments here.

I reckon two wrongs don't make a right. The shops right to make a profit, but wrong if they screw over somebody. I'd be wrong to interfere w/ a deal. Wouldn't want somebody to do that to me.

The question is - what is an 'excessive' profit?

bluedog6 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 25, 2011, 07:59:17 AM »

Once again,I must say if it is not my deal it is not my place to decide if the profit is excessive. I have both bought and sold things either too cheap or for too much. If you ask too much for something and I pay it then that's my problem. If I ask too much and you pay it that's your problem.
I am not talking about cheating the other party, I'm talking about trading and dealing. If I have $200.00 in a $500.00 item and I sell it for $300.00 I'm happy. If the next guy or gal makes the other $200.00 I don't care, and neither should a bystander.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #28 on:** September 25, 2011, 08:34:50 AM »

I would have discretely waited till after the deal was made and then informed the gentleman that he had not made a very good deal, and that if he ever had other firearms to sell, he should check sites such as Gun Broker, and to look in Pawn Shops, to see what such a firearm was bringing. That way he'd have an idea what the firearm was truly worth.

powderman · « **Reply #29 on:** September 25, 2011, 07:04:26 PM »

I was in a gunshop several years ago looking at a makarov. It was a 9x18 and I wanted a 380. The clerk told me, no problem, the ammo was interchangeable, they aren't. I don't do business with people like that. I told him that they were NOT, he wanted to argue, I left. I ended up getting a Berretta 380, but not there. POWDERMAN.