Author Topic: Barrel Fitting (FAQS has me a bit confused) (Read 1377 times)

Zach · « **on:** September 20, 2011, 09:41:21 AM »

Well first off I have read all of the FAQS but no idea where to start and on what problem first. When my 243 Handi is all put together it has a very very very slight vertical movement in the barrel. With the forend off, it moves about 75% more and also sideways. Also there is a Gap of between .0015 and .002" on top and tappers to nothing (.002 is almost impossible to get out, and .0015 slides in) ALSO the latch is engaging funny .

So what do i do? picture of the latch is at the bottem, i smoked then closed action 2 times.

Im not sure what seps to take first to solve what problem, then what steps to take to test and solve another problem after the first if needed.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2011, 01:12:25 PM »

That .0015 doesnt seem that bad, IIRC, others have had that without issue, though the 'wiggle' up & down may not be from that headspace. How is it when you put a cartridge in and snap it closed? Does it lock right up tight?
I cant tell how much latch engagement you have there, and a couple of mine had occasional pop-opens if I didnt snap them closed with some 'authority' until I had used them a while. Now its been a good long time since that last happened. Im thinkin it might be in the latch, it should be 'sliding up the shelf ramp' and locking it in.

Zach · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2011, 01:45:57 PM »

Its a used rifle. Bought it a few weeks ago and put 30 roundsthrough it with no pop opens. It locks tight just has a slight wobble up and down. Should I range test it first? Got 500 rem 80gr hp I am going to reload instead of buying factory ammo. Just need primer and powder.

Also if you click to enlarge picture it might look better. Only that shinny middle section on edge and half way up hit.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2011, 02:10:05 PM »

The forend has nothing to do with the action as far as function other than to keep the barrel from falling off when the action is open, it does nothing to keep the action locked up tight under pressure when the rifle is fired, a properly fitted barrel can even be safely fired without the forend on. So with that much excess headspace it needs to be shimmed so it locks up tight with no gap between the barrel and the standing breech and no looseness at all, as if the barrel and action are one piece. Then check the latch engagement, follow the procedure in my barrel fitting info, it leads you thru in the proper order start to finish to get it fitted so it will work right. I wouldn't be shooting it until the barrel is fitted better, your brass isn't going to last very long being worked that much, it will cause the brass to fail(case separation) which isn't good for your or the rifle when it happens.

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2011, 03:10:24 PM »

Yeah, that got me a bigger pic (what magic!).
Try sticking a layer or two of black elec. tape on the latch shelf and closing it up, just to see if a little 'extra' tightens it up. Not that this will solve anything, but it might point you in the right direction.

Zach · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2011, 04:00:21 PM »

So should I shim the pivot point to rid the gap, then work on getting rid of the slanted gap? Then work on the latch?

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2011, 04:11:43 PM »

Just 'shim' the shelf to see what happens and let us know. If the tape doesnt want to hold (ya gotta degrease well) it might not have enough 'body', and is pretty thin, but it might give a hint. Alum beverage can runs about .002 and a strip could be Superglued on to get more, but these are only tests to try to figure out your wiggle problem.
Im hoping somebody didnt have pop-opens and get too aggressive about filing the shelf.

Zach · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2011, 05:05:15 PM »

Alright ill give it all a try tomorrow night or thursday and let you guys know what i find. Ill have to go buy me a soda to get a can, cant remember the last soda i have had.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2011, 05:06:47 PM »

Soda or beer, they populate the ditches all over here..........

Zach · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2011, 05:10:16 PM »

I just may take a peak in the trash bin and see what I can find, the guy above my apartment always invited me to his 'crazy' partys that end around 10pm after everyones trashed

which is nice so i can get some sleep

DukeInMaine · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2011, 04:58:42 AM »

I've also read and re-read the FAQ's several times. And, like the OP, I am still somewhat confused.
Those of you who have fit these barrels several times are comfortable with the fixes. But those of us who are squemish about it are reading every word carefully, hoping to not screw up our barrels.

What I've gotten so far:

1) Don't ever make any changes to the FRAME (receiver)!
2) Side to side wobble is a common issue.
3) Failure of the latch to latch properly is also a common problem.

I have two barrels with the side to side wobble.

Asking clearly: Is the fix for this to add some material to the sides of the rectangular block that's attached (welded) to the barrel tube? Mine has about .0025 on a side (.005 total) wobble. I see shims discussed. I have a tig and a mig welder. I could add metal easily. Where do I need to add metal? To the whole side? Just spot welds? Where? Split the difference? .0025 on each side? (weld would be .035 thick... file that down?)

Second part to that question......... IF I sent the barrels with the wobble back to the factory, what would THEY do to fit the barrels to the receiver?

I also have one barrel that has a latching issue. File a little off the shelf of the barrel? Or, ream a bit more metal off the rounded part near the front, which engages the pin in the frame? It just barely doesn't latch. There is no gap at top or bottom, it just is very tight latching.

Just wonder why the factory couldn't have tightened up their tolerances when machining these in the first place so that this fitting stuff isn't necessary.

Thanks for allowing me to jump in on this thread, and hoping it also helps others.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2011, 05:46:12 AM »

Generally one removes metal only from the easiest to replace and cheapest parts.
Regarding 'side to side 'wobble......is this when it is closed or open? If when open, so what, you dont ever shoot it there.
Barrel latching.....it is an issue with some though not 'common'. Does that rifle pop-open on firing? Do you keep the latch clean and dry? Are you snapping it closed with 'some authority'? These parts have to seat in and tend to get better over time. If it has been some time you could try 'lightly' stoning the shelf just to hit the 'high spots', that can make a difference (but I dont take a file to it).
Why doesnt the factory do more? Cost. How much are we willing to pay for a cheap rifle before we just buy something else?

Bill3006 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:43:40 AM »

Zach,

No expert on this, but it would seem that if you have a gap at the top, adding a shim to the pivot would increase the gap. To remove the gap, don't you need to remove material from the pivot? Maybe that part is OK, and the latch or shelf is the problem. When closed, do you still have some freeplay (wiggle) in the latch lever? If not, that may indicate that something is preventing the latch from closing properly or that there isn't sufficient material on the shelf (worn or filed down too much or improperly fitted). I believe either of those conditions would explain the up and down movement when closed.

Zach · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2011, 10:33:12 AM »

That's what has me confused. To even the gap it says to file pivot. But th close gap you add. So im unsure and going to play with it later..

But the release lever does rattle and can be moved when close AND open. I seen where it is not supposed to when open. Guess ill have to play.

DukeInMaine · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2011, 11:52:22 AM »

The side to side wobble is when the barrels are closed. The two with the side to side wobble close and latch fine. They just have the .0025 on each side wobble. I can slide the barrel side to side. I can also "rock" the barrel rotationally.

The one that doesn't latch right just barely closes. Seems very tight. Too tight. I would not shoot the barrel as-is without further fitting.

Hope that someone has constructive info for both the OP and my situation.

Zach · « **Reply #15 on:** September 21, 2011, 03:15:00 PM »

I have gotten plenty of help from numerous people. Including a phone teaching session which I greatly appreciate. I was just not sure what to start with and what exactly solves what. Ill be temp shimming much of tonight I think. And are these 'stones' ceramic merely files?

gcrank1 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2011, 03:35:52 PM »

Stones, as in knife sharpening 'Hard Arkansas' or the Norton products. Do not use the composite abrasive hardware store type, or files, they are way too aggressive. You want to do a slow, careful polish of the surface.
Remember,"fools rush in where angels fear to tread".

Zach · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2011, 03:52:45 PM »

would a Whet Stone be the same thing?

Also just a heads up to everyone, once i get home ill be putting a temp shim on the Latch to see if it locks better, becuase it locks at the middle edge and also further up. Ill re-smoke before and after. Then try shimming the pivot, and see where i want to go from there.

Zach · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2011, 04:46:09 AM »

Well last night i did a few shim test whith no avil. I did not, however, take out the ejector becuase i have no punchs at home. but anyways, i used a soda pop shim around the pivot and all that it made it to is harder to latch, the gap was the same. When i say harder to latch, though, i mean i had to put the stock between legs, push down on receiver, and jerk the barrel up. i could not latch it holding it just in my 2 hands for the life of me.

though i did wrap the shim around the pivot point and not on the lug, which im going today if time permits, had to get some super glue. But is there a reason that it did not close the gap AT ALL?

And looking at the Arkansas Stones, I have a very fine White Whet stone i use for my final sharpening of knifes, is this the stone i would be looking for? i have no idea what it is exactly made of

Brian56 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:51:18 AM »

Why not just send it to H & R Remington and let m fit it right for you.

Brian@Remington:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:55:57 AM »

There ya go Zach, pretty hard to beat Brian's offer!!

Tim

Quote from: Brian56 on September 22, 2011, 05:51:18 AM

Why not just send it to H & R Remington and let m fit it right for you.

Brian@Remington:

Zach · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2011, 09:52:51 AM »

After playing with shims on latch and pivot, no matter how thin or thick pivot was the gap stayed the same. When I shimmed latch with a pop can cut to size and super glued in place the gap is so small or completely gone and so is 90%the of movement with forend off and gone with it on. But only a corner is touching latch after smoke and stoning made it better and stiffer.

Is this the ticket?

rdlange · « **Reply #22 on:** September 23, 2011, 10:08:42 AM »

Set it aside... do something else for awhile. You've got target fixation. Sleep on it. The solution will come.

Come Monday look into Brian's offer. He'll do it right. Might be more cost effective.

Be Well...

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2011, 11:01:19 AM »

Shimming the latch seemed to get you in the right direction, but 'rebuilding' the latch properly is not a simple or easy project. I think you are probably out of your depth on this one, as most would be, so dont feel like this is a failing on your part. Gallant effort, this, time to call in the cavalry and know it gets fixed right. You will be glad to get the monkey off your back.

Zach · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2011, 12:06:18 PM »

Will h&r fix and fit my barrel to my receiver. Im afraid they will say no can do and end up selling me a barrel because the latch shelf has been filed to much.

Guess im calling H&R Monday.

Zach · « **Reply #25 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:58:49 PM »

I have this weekend to decide to either attempt to shim the shelf, find another solution, or send it in. I am just wondering what they could do to fix it if it is the shelf? Also I am afraid that since my receiver was made in 1992, they cannot put any barrel on besides accessory or the factory caliber right? and my barrel has no serial, so it might not be the factory caliber.

I'm just looking at my options and making sure that if i send it in, they can for sure fix it, or that i can fix it myself (seems unlikely reading your guys posts.)

P.S. I know I'm beating the dead horse. I just want to get it done so i can free up some money for reloading

Zach · « **Reply #26 on:** September 24, 2011, 05:27:29 AM »

Where can I find information on sending in my Handi? Is it along the same lines as the Barrel Program?

And reading FAQ it says they can fix it if it doesnt lock up tight, but if its sloppy they couldnt, is this what mine is considered?

And thanks for the help guys, on it all, i just wanted it to be golden so i could tag along with my uncle out at his property coyote hunting this next weekend.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** September 24, 2011, 06:11:57 AM »

Repair info is on the H&R Customer Support page.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

Zach · « **Reply #28 on:** September 24, 2011, 06:49:28 AM »

Does it have to be marked Firearm like it is when you get firearms sent to the gunshop? and can i send it dissasembled? my box i bought it with has foam for the parts being taken apart, forend, barrel, and stock.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** September 24, 2011, 10:47:03 AM »

The box should not be marked as a firearm. Usually the best way to ship a firearm is in a box within a box, the inner box preferably the original box that came with the firearm, or a custom made box as yours sounds like, individual pieces need to be packed well so they don't move around against each other and sufficient packing material added to keep all parts from moving during rough handling, that means tight so there's no movement at all. For instance, if the barrel isn't tightly packed in the box, if it's dropped it can go right thru the end of the box, lots of barrels are lost in shipment due to improper packing by the sender.

Tim