Author Topic: Lee pre-measure dippers versus what it shows on the scale, accuracy issues? (Read 1573 times)

His lordship. · « **on:** September 22, 2011, 01:58:48 PM »

I bought the Lee powder measure kit with the various dippers, I used to use this same setup for many years with my rifles and never had a problem. Decided to get all new stuff after moving cross country as I sold everything, and got the Lee mechanical powder scale to try to be more flexible with my loads like the other handloaders do. The trouble with the premade dippers is they decide the size of the load for you, they are fixed. After zeroing the scale I noticed that there is a discrepancy.

I use Unique powder for my .45 long Colt. In the dipper kit there is a sliding cardboard measuring device to apply equivalency to what load you are using. I figured that once I had the scale set for the load I wanted (8 grs for instance) I could experiment with how much powder is in the dippers, where it comes up to inside them, then start loading cases.

For example the sliding cardboard data device for Unique powder shows a 1.0 dipper (9.2 grs. Unique), or .70 dipper (6.4 grs Unique). When I put this 1.0 dipper on my scale is shows 8 grs. not 9.2. This is very bad, are the dippers that off or is it the scale?

I either have to believe the dippers or the scale? If the dippers are totally off, then all those years of loading centerfire rifles is fantasy. What I put on the loading sticker was not real. Gee, I am glad I did not have an accident (underload or overload)?!

Anybody use the dippers and compare them to what the scale said?

Thanks

av-doctor · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:18:41 PM »

it depends on how consistently you dip with the dippers, try dipping 10 loads and weigh each see how much the weight varies

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:57:13 PM »

Dippers depend on so many factors I don't trust them.
I measured four dippers and each weighed differently.
Blessings

tacklebury · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2011, 04:04:49 PM »

There's a lot of variability, but I have found that the Lee chart gets you close and once you get consistent with one dipper, you can write down the offset for a given powder and it'll come in pretty close. Unique always tends to be light for me and Reloader7 always heavy. Lot to do with the grain style I think also.

I always weigh on at least a little digital scale, which gets within .1 grain or so. Plenty good for plinking and hunting ammo. Match ammo I spend a bit more time weighing.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:23:59 PM »

i use the dippers when ever i can
it is easier to duplicate the load in the future if i like it

the dipper is always been lighter than the ''slide rule'' says it should

all those years you didn't have a scale
were you happy with your loads?
lf so....prooves you don't need to hotrod your loads

res45 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:34:35 PM »

Skeeter Skelton used dipper loading handgun ammo in many of his writing.

Quote

I use dipped powder charges with the 310. Before I learned about them, I couldn't believe that a dipped charge of smokeless powder could possibly be accurate. A little check weighing against my RCBS scales changed my mind. As long as the reloader uses uniformity in his methods, he'll get uniform weights from his little dippers. This means dipping in the same direction through about the same depth of loose powder in a bowl, cup, or whatever's handy, then carefully striking the excess powder from the dipper's mouth with a straightedge. A knife blade works fine.

Back when I use the dippers I dipped the base into the powder first and let it fill and heap up on the top then swiped the excess powder off lever with a stiff business card. Now days I use a RCBS Lil-Dandy or DUO measure to throw all my rifle and pistol loads.

I've tried exact weighed loads vs. thrown charges and for the type of shooting and ranges I shoot at weighing each charge is just not worth the trouble,if I shot 600 and 1K yard matches probably so but 300 yds or less I saw no difference. When you find the load your rifle or pistol likes a couple tenths on either side of the accuracy load want make much difference. It's even more so as the powder charge weight start to go higher. I can generally keep my throws in the 1 tenths range without a problem as long as I'm consistent.

streak · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:46:09 PM »

For a good dissertation on reloading smokeless powders with a Lee dipper go to one of our member`s ( Junior 1942) website ( "The Frugal Outdoorsman")!
He using them alot!!

bilmac · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2011, 07:01:13 PM »

The dippers are OK, the chart they give with them lies. Throw the chart away and make your own. Lee is afraid of the lawyers.

Dand · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2011, 10:38:31 PM »

I have the dipper set and use it a bit but only to dump onto a scale. I've never got to where I could dip consistent or match the Lee chart. Same thing with the Pro Auto disks - they don't match the chart. So I check weigh what the ProAuto throws and use what ever cavity gets me the load I want. Then recheck regularly as I load.

drdougrx · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2011, 03:16:57 AM »

I'm with Dand on this one. I always use dippers...to dump powdwer onto a scale. This means that I weigh every charge. I don't do high volume loading except for 9mm or 45acp. The rest I load one at a time and use a dipper to approximate the charge I need as I drop it onto a scale and then add or remove as necessary.

mdi · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2011, 08:45:56 AM »

All the Lee dippers I have used will measure a bit light as compared to the "slide rule". But consistancy is another item entirely. As I usually weigh each charge when using dippers, I find I can get "dips" that vary by 1/10 grain or less. I just do the same thing each time I dip into the powder; hold the dipper the same way, push the dipper through the powder the same each time, level with straight edge, or not, etc. Also, it's easy to "customize" a dipper by reaming or drilling the cavity for larger capacity, or drops of epoxy in the cavity for smaller loads, ect....

gr8ful · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2011, 08:52:52 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on September 23, 2011, 03:16:57 AM

I'm with Dand on this one. I always use dippers...to dump powdwer onto a scale. This means that I weigh every charge. I don't do high volume loading except for 9mm or 45acp. The rest I load one at a time and use a dipper to approximate the charge I need as I drop it onto a scale and then add or remove as necessary.

Me too, dippers get close but not close enough for me. Better safe than sorry.

SteveHawaii · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2011, 09:24:45 AM »

The only time I use my dippers now is to feed my scale. They're handy for that.

His lordship. · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2011, 04:18:05 PM »

Thanks for the replies, guys. I also wrote Lee, they responded fast and told me to rely on the scale over the dippers. You guys are right, the dippers are made to make people use very light loads, lawyer fear.

As an airgun and black powder enthusiast I came up with some good ideas after posting this. I used some of my airgun pellets that are weighed in grains to put on the scale, and check to see if the settings for it were on, they sure were. I then used my adjustable black powder measure that I use for my plains muzzle loader pistol to measure for 9 grs of Unique. After getting the exact weight of 9 grs. on the scale, I then add the powder from a smaller dipper until it reaches the top rim of the muzzle loader measure, lock it, and note the number of where the adjuster is. I loaded 8 rounds for testing with the 9 gr. weight today using the black powder measure. I now have 3 different loads to test next week.

Loading for the .45 long colt is a new experience for me, I used to load for .38 special 30 years ago, they have some similarities. I am also using a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull, this should allow a nice safety margin as the gun is over built for the .45. Eventually, I will take your good advice and alter the dippers to use them straight on for certain loads and put the black powder measure back in my "Possibles Bag".

I used the dippers for many years and felt left out as everybody was weighing their powder loads in "grains". Decided to get the right equipment.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:51:06 PM »

When I hit upon a "set" load, ie. my pet 38 load is 2.9 gr. Bullseye behind a 148 gr. wadcutter, I make my own dipper by cutting down a case and soldering on a stem. I then file it until it holds almost exactly the right amount, but a little light. This goes to the scale, and a trickler does the rest.

I find the dippers faster for me than a "powder dumper", (I don't trust them that much). I weigh all my charges, and check the scale about every 25. I don't do this because I'm trying to be super duper accurate, but I feel it keeps me on my toes so I don't get lethargic and make a major error. I use the same method repeatedly.

Having now written a book, it leads me to my point, using dippers I can drop within a tenth gr. or so repeatedly. If I ever doubted my scale, I would trust the dipper.

Ben

streak · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2011, 06:04:03 PM »

Mechanic,
I agree, I use the dippers and once you get the feel and technique going, I can dip pretty consistent loads. As mentioned above "Junior 1942" a member on this board gives a very good description on how to use the Lee dippers.

.22-5-40 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2011, 06:42:45 PM »

Hello, Chris D. What res45 said..pushing dipper into powder & letting fill by gravity & carding off excess.
Funny you should bring this up..I have been loading black..using dipper, I can vary nearly +or- 2.0grs. just by how I fill. I always trust a scale over any dipper.

Austin from NC · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2011, 09:44:50 PM »

Get a good powder measure and throw those dippers as far as you can sling em. Set it a little and trickle rest if using courser powder. Just keep powder basin about the same level and you will be fine.

Austin

MZ5 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2011, 05:29:07 PM »

Perhaps those who were/are expecting the chart to match a dipped charge with every lot of every powder made over the last several decades are being amazingly unreasonable. Perhaps you're not aware of the fact that powder lots vary? My reloading notes from any given year (including the last year when I've reloaded and shot next to nothing) clearly illustrate this. The dippers are capable of amazing and rapid consistency, if only one will recognize what they're for and how to use them for that purpose.

drdougrx · « **Reply #19 on:** September 27, 2011, 05:26:17 AM »

I for one have never used the chart. A dipper is a dipper. If I'm working on a new load, I just grab a dipper that looks like it would measure the charge I need and then by process of elimination, weigh the powder from each dipper until I find the size that gets me to, or close to, the correct charge. Funny...I mostly use the 4.3cc dipper for my 06 cartridges (all around 60gr of powder), the 1.3cc for cartridges that use around 25gr of powder and one or two more I think....I keep them on my bench in a cartridge block from a box of fed ammo.

Handy!

huntducks · « **Reply #20 on:** September 27, 2011, 08:34:23 AM »

You guys can keep playing games with the dippers to save a few bucks and what you think is time, but when it comes to my eyes I spare no cost there is no sub. for a top of the line PM like a Redding or B&M and a RCBS 10-10 scale.

You only have one set of eyes.

But that's only my opinion.

mechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2011, 12:21:09 PM »

Quote from: huntducks on September 27, 2011, 08:34:23 AM

You guys can keep playing games with the dippers to save a few bucks and what you think is time, but when it comes to my eyes I spare no cost there is no sub. for a top of the line PM like a Redding or B&M and a RCBS 10-10 scale.

You only have one set of eyes.

But that's only my opinion.

Ya' gotta' get the powder into the scale in the first place. IMO thats what the dippers do well. I've got three powder measures, Lee, Lyman, and RCBS. The dippers are more accurate and faster for me. I just don't trust the measures. To each his own...be safe!

Ben