Why the current boundaries of Israel must be maintained..

[ironglow]

  Some ask; "Why must Israel maintain some type of hegemony over the west bank, even to the Jordan river"?  Actually, the answer is quite simple..even though some "strain at a gnat" in trying to understand it !
  Here are three major reasons why;
  1) THE PROMISE:
         (Genesis 17:7,8) Lord speaking to Abraham:
    "  I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you in their generations for an Everlasting Covenant, to be a God unto you and your seed after you".  And I will give unto you , and to your seed after you, the land wherein you are a stranger, all the land of Caanan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God".
   (Genesis 28:13) Lord speaking to Jacob:
    " And behold, the LORD stood above it and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon you lie, to you will I give it, and to your seed".
    Of course, the above verses are only of import to those who endorse the Bible.  If the Koran is more to their liking, they would probably disagree...
  2) THE NATURE OF "THE LAND" AND DEFENSE OF IT:
         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0
  3) TO PREVENT WW3:
          Israel is threatened every day by their surrounding neighbors, who possess a land area 650 times the size of Israel itself.  These surrounding nations have admitted they will "wipe Israel off the map", as soon as they feel they are ready. Israel is an advanced nation, well prepared to defend itself and with modern weaponry have decided to move from the "Masada" mode of thinking..(suicide before being conquered): to the "Samson" pattern..(take all enemies down, along with themselves)
   Keeping this in mind, the world has an obligation to prevent a heavy nuclear exchange in the near east ! We should not be so naive as to think that complete devastation of the near & middle east would stay within those geographical borders.... Exchanges of a multitude of nukes could not likely be contained to any geographical area.
           ...Food for thought...
 
 
 

[BUGEYE]

you can bet that every city in the raghead countries have a warhead aimed at it.
if you go after the Jews, you will pay a terrible price.

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Unfortunately Israel is currently occupied by 5 nations worshipping a false god and a murdering, pedophile, false prophet. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

IRONGLOW. Unfortunatel Israel is currently occupied by 5 nations worshipping a false god and a murdering, pedophile, false prophet. POWDERMAN. 

Powder-man, are you thinking that Israel needs a little more hegemony over a little more territory... a little more Lebensraum, perhaps? (though they probably wouldn't phrase it thataway....)

[BBF]

IMO establish borders !!
Stop your lying!!
You promised not to expand settlement and  the construction proceeds.

[powderman]

Scatter. No reason for Israel not to build in their own country. The palis are squatters, trespassers, invaders. POWDERMAN. 

[srussell]

Scatter. No reason for Israel not to build in their own country. The palis are squatters, trespassers, invaders. POWDERMAN. 

.
    I heard the Cherokee are saying same thing about Kentuckyistan...want their property backed based on zionism legal precedent...better start packing...
.
TM7
.

you said that as a joke but what gave us the powder to steal their land

[yellowtail3]

   I heard the Cherokee are saying same thing about Kentuckyistan...want their property backed based on zionism legal precedent...better start packing...
.
TM7

you said that as a joke but what gave us the powder to steal their land

What gave us the powder? Some munitions manufacturing facilities, I'd guess.

White people stole their land because... they could. Not a very compelling argument - 'might makes right' - but there you go. That's the truth of it. Some people say that we had a manifest destiny to go west and kill those who resisted... so that all the killing and taking by force was OK, no moral prob. Some apologists for the Zionists say the same thing: God is on their side, therefore whatever they do is right, and one can't oppose them without going against God.

Others disagree.

[Dixie Dude]

Fact:  God promised the land to Abrahams seed THROUGH Issac and Jacob, not through Ismael.  Jesus said the Jews would be scattered within 1 generation after His death and resurection.  AD-70 Romans scattered the Jews as slaves all over the Empire.  Jews started returning after WWI.  Jesus also said they would return in the last days.  Hmmm.  Bible is pretty plain concerning these things in every translation.  God also said whoever blesses Israel He would bless, and whoever cursed Isreal He would curse.  Hmmm.  That is exactly why our past presidents and congress have supported Israel. 

[yellowtail3]

Fact:  God promised the land to Abrahams seed THROUGH Issac and Jacob, not through Ismael.  Jesus said the Jews would be scattered within 1 generation after His death and resurection.  AD-70 Romans scattered the Jews as slaves all over the Empire.  Jews started returning after WWI.  Jesus also said they would return in the last days.  Hmmm.  Bible is pretty plain concerning these things in every translation.  God also said whoever blesses Israel He would bless, and whoever cursed Isreal He would curse.  Hmmm.  That is exactly why our past presidents and congress have supported Israel.

Sounds like maybe we should be making foreign policy decisions based on a particular interpretation of scripture. Isn't that what some Islamist gov'ts do? And if yes... we'd be doing what we criticize them for doing... hmmm... just cogitating... guess I don't know much about this stuff.


I remember hearing that Israel was the fig tree, forty years in a generation, start counting at 1948, rapture in '83 and return in '88...

[ironglow]

Drawing a "moral equivalency" is the first step toward total confusion..  "Judge them by their fruit".
     Taking one man's mis-interpretation and trying to place the error upon a whole group, is narrow minded at best.
 
  No, foreign policy should not be run by anyone's theological viewpoint, but an intellectual view of 5,000 years of history would help to clarify many issues. Some however, think they are so intellectually superior that they can ignore such history, which is a springboard to wisdom.
 
  In any case, there has been enough bumbling so we are beyond that point now.  It doesn't matter how you or I feel about it, aAt this time, we have a situation where Israel feels compelled to defend their promised land, even to the point of bringing down the entire region in a nuclear firestorm, rather than surrender (just as with Samson).
   On the other hand we have a demon driven force that believes it is their 12th Imam's job to destroy Israel..and they will aid him with whatever weapons they have at their disposal.
   Hegemony over the present lines as a peace keeping force is mandatory to prevent the inevitable attack, should Israel look to be too inviting a target.
   Any who push for Muslim hegemony down to the 9 mile line  (the pre 1967 lines) at Israel's center...is pushing to start WW3.
  A very simple call to make...
 
 
   Landof goshen!!  Why do the muslim countries NEED more land ?  Why don't they do something constructive with the vast (green) area they already have ?  Reminds me of a fat old hog with a full trough and tons of other food, trying to steal a single acorn (red) from a squirrel !             see map below...Have you ever seen anyone so hoggish ?

[yellowtail3]

Drawing a "moral equivalency" is the first step toward total confusion.. 

what does that mean? moral equivalency between what... resulting in what confusion?

Taking one man's mis-interpretation and trying to place the error upon a whole group, is narrow minded at best.

what's that about?

[ironglow]

  We are PAST the Biblical concern..WW3 is staring us in the face !

[yellowtail3]

  We are PAST the Biblical concern..WW3 is staring us in the face !

Oh, I wouldn't sweat WW3. We've got oceans on both sides, and no dangerous invaders on our borders. We've got more navy than the rest of the world combined. We've got a very large and very experienced army. We've got a big airforce, and more nukes than we need to kill all our friends and enemies.


Not that the above matters when making ideological statements...

[ironglow]

Can we be so confident that a nuclear exchange between Isreal and  Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan and all other islamic nations be confined to the near & middle east, especially when Israel has nuclear death waiting in submarines out at sea ?
 
   In actuality, it may be more likely that a Russian/pan-muslim alliance will try a stupid adventure...and be obliterated.
 
  In any case..no fun for the rest of the world either...

[Dixie Dude]

The nukes owned by these third world countries are also dirty bombs.  They are fission bombs using uranium or plutonium, thus more radioactivity in the fallout.  Our bombs and Russias are fusion bombs, using heavy water for the hydrogen fusion.  These are about 10 times less radioactive yet 10 time more powerful.  Israel, Iran, Pakistan, India will all have the uranium based bombs.  A nuclear exchange by them will have a lot of radioactive particles in the upper atmosphere which may come over here.  Also, the dust and debris from these bombs could cause a nuclear winter.  Keeping out the sun cooling the earth.  Depends on how many are used.  Israel has already told Russia that Moscow is in range of their weapons when they were siding with the Arabs several years ago. 

[powderman]

DIXIE DUDE. Good posts. YES, the Bible is very plain who God made his covenant with, nothing to interpret, it's there for all to see. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

IG...exchange..??..??..first of all, iracq, syria, iran, eygpt, etc...don't have nuclear weapons like uninspected Israel with crazy Samosn mentality, nor do they have adequate delivery sytems, 2ndly, these countries do not or have mil bases in 135 countries or involved with hostile actions in 20 or more countries currently, nor an arms budget equivalent to all the rest of the world, or have been responsible for death of millions of moslems,,,only isreal and its vassal satelite the USA are doing so in the name of God  (ooops!...that was spill over from the C4 dissonance thread... ).
 
Russo_pan-muslim actions are ridiculous..cold war rhetoric re-packaged......
 
The time is NOW to convert back to Christianity for you....not LATER or when convenient.
 
..TM7
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   Pakistan has nukes...and Iran is on the verge...and their leaders are treacherous.  Just  FYI..Muslims are at war in many more than 20 countries, and although their delivery systems are crude..shoes, underwear etc, the "enemy" includes Israel, England, France, Spain, the US and a host of other countries.. !
  As far as Christianity..the bible is my guide...you pught to back off the conspiracy blogs and the fictional novels by Dan Brown and his breed...

[BBF]

n

Fact:   Not a Fact, just because it was written or past on verbally by a group of nomads  for self interest reason doesn't make it true

Sounds like maybe we should be making foreign policy decisions based on a particular interpretation of scripture. Isn't that what some Islamist gov'ts do? And if yes... we'd be doing what we criticize them for doing... hmmm... just cogitating... guess I don't know much about this stuff.
 
neither did I
 



I remember hearing that Israel was the fig tree, forty years in a generation, start counting at 1948, rapture in '83 and return in '88...

We missed the deadline on that as well.

[ironglow]

TM Says;
  "
Dan Brown claims he is a fictional adventure writer using hsitorical references. He's a nice guy...he would really like to write some really truthful stuff--but guess who the publishers are?? I particularly thought his first illuminati book, 'Angels and Demons', was pretty good...this was prequell to da Vinci and wherein he introduced the character of Robert Langdon...Notice how Brown goes to lengths to avoid mentioning, any and all mention, of a certain little controlling ancient mid-east tribe....hey, kinda like you!! Brown is info and disinfo at the same time".
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  So TM;
  Are you admitting here that you get a sizeable source of your information from Dan Brown's series of fictional, fantasy novels ?
 
     ...Have you tried Edgar Rice Burroughs' books, such as  "Chessmen of Mars".. or "Thuvia, Maid of Mars"...? 

[NWBear]

I AM worried about another war (WWIII or otherwise).  Distance and overwhelming power against our adversaries has nothing to do with it.  19 Saudis attacked us on 9/11 - we retaliated by attacking Afganistan and Iraq... Given that we spend more on the military than the rest of the world COMBINED, this should be a no brainer BUT 10 years later WE have sent more Americans to their death than died on 9/11.  Did we do this because we were afraid of Afganistan and Iraq?  Another war anywhere in the world has the potential to involve the US - whether we want it or not.  They won't take me any more, too old, served 4 years US Army 1970-1974. However I fear for our young service men who may be called to fight another war, not to mention the effect on our country.  However, it may be inevitable.   

[1marty]

I was always bewildered by the passion the word "jew" evokes. Through the centuries they've been killed, tortured and evicted from any land they occupied. Today they represent .024% of the worlds population. In the US they represent 1.7% of the population. Through inter-marraige, low birth rate and the fact they don't actively preach conversion the percentage will continue to decline. Yet they continue to be the most feared and enveyed people of the world.

[ironglow]

I was always bewildered by the passion the word "jew" evokes. Through the centuries they've been killed, tortured and evicted from any land they occupied. Today they represent .024% of the worlds population. In the US they represent 1.7% of the population. Through inter-marraige, low birth rate and the fact they don't actively preach conversion the percentage will continue to decline. Yet they continue to be the most feared and enveyed people of the world.

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1marty;
     You have hit on an important, but rarely discussed pheonomenon..JEWPHOBIA !  THose quiet folk are blamed for everything from the high price of coffee, swine flu and Dutch elm disease..on to "sudden infant death syndrome" (SIDS).
  When some new threat arises the Jewphobists will be right there, blaming the Jews again...
   Take heart though, we have made great progress since 9/11, even though the diehard libbies refuse to admit it !
 
   Here's a video for the thinking man;
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DbJX3y4-1Y

[BUGEYE]

JEWPHOBIA, that reminds me of a documentary about the american nazi party (aka, arian nation)
who surrounded themselves with signs that said "kill the jews".
and another thing that always seemed to be at all their headquarters and hangouts was the confederate battle flag.  what's up with that?

[ironglow]

JEWPHOBIA, that reminds me of a documentary about the american nazi party (aka, arian nation)
who surrounded themselves with signs that said "kill the jews".
and another thing that always seemed to be at all their headquarters and hangouts was the confederate battle flag.  what's up with that?

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   Bugeye;
   I think this is a misappropriation of a symbol (the stars & bars).  Many fine people died under that flag, fighting in a cause they thought right.  Not all who fought under that flag were 'slave owners'; in fact very few were..they were fighting for home & hearth...and I say that as a man who had forbearers who were in the 116th NY regiment.
   Just because some will misuse a symbol, doesn't mean that symbol is evil...after all, they also misuse the symbol of the cross!
 
   NOW, BACK TO THE THREAD;
  There seems to be great misunderstanding of what I was saying about maintaining the post-1967 lines and the Israelis havin hegemony enough to patrol, in defense of their borders. Probably they don't understand...because they didn't view the video, which clearly explains why the present situation prevents a greater war.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0
   PLEASE folks..watch the video, then complain..
  Personally, I think the Palestinians could keep the area where they are now, with special permission to visit & maintain the Dome of the Rock....so long as they do it peaceably.
 
  Excuses being made here, saying the muslims..outside Iran, Syria etc, have no "delivery systems"...hogwash!!  the idiots over in Gaza strip have 'delivery systems' they are using every day.  Those rockets could deliver biological or nuclear 'dirty bombs'..
  If return were made to pre-1967 lines, Iran could move in Scuds through the no longer patrolled west bank..to the the 9 mile wide waistline and hit most cities in Israel..they do that and we have WAR..possibly nuclear war.  No clear thinker with deductive power could escape that obvious possibility.

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. Great videos, there are several others there too that show islam for the vile cancer it really is, training their children to hate from pre school on up. What a waste of human life they are. Easy to see they are following satan, not God. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

JEWPHOBIA, that reminds me of a documentary about the american nazi party (aka, arian nation)
who surrounded themselves with signs that said "kill the jews".
and another thing that always seemed to be at all their headquarters and hangouts was the confederate battle flag.  what's up with that?

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   Bugeye;
   I think this is a misappropriation of a symbol (the stars & bars).  Many fine people died under that flag, fighting in a cause they thought right. 

The same could be said of the Nazi swastika, or rising sun, or hammer & sickle, or stars and stripes - or any flag - many fine people died under their flag, fighting in a cause they thought right.

[Brasso]

All of the currently held land that Israel has, plus a whole bunch they don't currently have, belongs to God.    He gave it Israel.     If you don' like it, take it up with Him.     Or just wait a bit, and He'll take it up with  you.      Just my opinion.   

Palestine isn't a country and there is no such thing as Palestinians.      At least not up until about 20 years ago.    I feel sorry for most of them.   They're pawns of the other Islamic countries.      If they were smart, they'd round up the fanatics in their midst and cut off their heads before God has to come down and do it Himself.   

[BBF]

Now that Egypt is controlled by a group of military types with the blessings and encouragement by the USA you have a less Israel friendly situation there. Another smooth ME move
 
Gaza has direct access to Egypt now and all those Weapons of Mass Destruction that I keep reading about here have an easy entry.
 
Establish borders and keep to your respective sides as a start.
 
 
BTW. I'm waiting to see what crawls to the driver seat in Libya!

[ironglow]

Not likely any good news in those near east countries, not with the "Muslim brotherhood" in charge....