Author Topic: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)  (Read 1396 times)

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Offline Shu

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2011, 11:09:11 AM »
I don't know if kill count matters or if that is even a good question.
My brother in law had a hard time with taking the life of an enemy. He was troubled by it up until he died. My nephew was completely unphased. Both had very different upbringing.
I think people react differently. I don't know member Dinny's exp and am not about to ask for a resume. He stated it was the wounded troops that got to him. Him being a combat medic, I think is a pretty darn tough job. Reading his posts etc he has his head screwed on straight.
There are several other folks here that have seen combat and got thier heads on straight also.
I am thinking it might be a mental toughness issue, religous upringing, moral value issue.
My uncle was a paratrooper he had seen and done a few things, He told me before I went, a "good man going in will be a good man coming out. Don't listen to the whiners suck it up and do your job". I don't know if he was right or not but he never had any trouble.
Really it is something that needs to be studied and dealt with appropriately. Does anyone really know how much trauma it takes for an individual to go overboard?
I know there are real cases and there are fakers. Sorting them out is the hard part.

Offline Brett

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2011, 02:42:23 PM »
Billy: you are right, there is that large portion of our society that frowns on killing a man, no matter what the circumstances.  If they find out you have done that they frown on you forever. 

Cirmcumstances always ought to be taken into consideration.
 
an aside, if you don't mind - how many have you killed, besides the guy in the store? Any others?

No more than he had to I'm sure.   I think the question falls under the same category as "How much money do you make?" 
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Offline powderman

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2011, 06:50:24 PM »
an aside, if you don't mind - how many have you killed, besides the guy in the store? Any others?     
 
 
   What a horrible thing to ask. How insensitive can you get?? POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2011, 12:34:06 AM »
an aside, if you don't mind - how many have you killed, besides the guy in the store? Any others?        What a horrible thing to ask. How insensitive can you get?? POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'
  Agreed.. That question was tactless and tasteless. 
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2011, 02:34:43 AM »
 I believe that a lot of the behavior attributed to PTSD is in reality caused by the SSRI drugs which are almost always prescribed to treat it.
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Offline Hodr

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2011, 04:31:05 AM »
Dad was a combat medic and a Ranger.  After getting out of Cisterna he got shipped home and ended his service as a medic treating combat shock cases in Presidio, San Francisco.  I was born in late 1946.  Two of those cases he helped became my godfathers.  One died before I was 2.  The other was a 4th Marine Raider who lived until I was 60.  My father's demons were not for having killed but for those wounded he left behind when ordered to escape.  My godfather that I had a chance to listen to would talk of when and where and what but could never quit asking why he got out alive and others didn't.  The Corps team name for my godfather was Bad Penny.  Dad told me as I grew up that all most heroes needed was a chance to work for a living and forget when possible.  Now I am an old man, Dad was right.  The only part of my service that bothers me, is those that didn't make it out.
 
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Offline scotsman

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2011, 05:53:00 AM »
My father was in Korea, a rifleman in an infantry company. He was hit in the left arm by a burp gun within about two weeks of arriving, he was bayonetted just under the collar bone later, and finally left his right leg there. He passed away in 1995 of cancer, he never spoke about it until the last few years of his life. He was there about a year and had his rotation points to come home but volunteered to stay because he said he had grown to like it. Nothing was more important than killing chinks and he became good at it. Though at that time there was no PTSD recognized he said thought everyone had some form it and everyone dealt with it differently. He married my mom raised four good kids, led a good life, and adjusted well to an artificial limb. He never slept the night of May 15, the date he lost his leg. When I got out of high school I thought about joining the military, all my dad said was he didn't want anyone to see and do the things he had done. I never joined and though he never said so I think he was relieved. He had a purple heart with three ribbons, a bronze star with V for valor and oak leaf clusters, they were in a little box and he never cared about them. The only one he would look at was a CIB, he said all the others were awarded that one was earned.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2011, 06:25:13 AM »
I was in the USAF (what marines call a chickensh*t outfit ;D ) and saw grown men go berserk in basic training.  so I can see where any combat could cause problems.
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Offline Hodr

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2011, 06:59:16 AM »
Scotsman,
I knew and talked with a Medal of Honor recipient at Ft Lee.  Said the same thing your father did, "A Combat Infantry Badge means you have stood and seen the fire, anything else is garnish."
 
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2011, 09:20:54 AM »
I thought I was finished with this thread as it is much to serious for me.  But so many members are offering such well reasoned opinions I feel the need to make one more serious post to it.
 
I don't believe in PTSS.

Neither did I; for many years.  Your feelings are completely understandable to me.
 
I think people react differently. ... I am thinking it might be a mental toughness issue, religious upbringing, moral value issue.

No question about it.  It's all of those and probably more.  However, I believe the killing part is the easiest for individuals to deal with.  To mitigate the taking of a human life we tend to dehumanize those we are fighting.  Hence the politically incorrect way we refer to them.  i.e. slopes, gooks, dinks from the VN era.  Also, if we convince ourselves that we hate the people we are fighting, for whatever reason we come up with, killing them becomes more justified in our mind.  There is one nationality I hate to this day.  It isn't logical or even reasonable, but I can't change the way I feel.
 
And, as you can see from the posts here, the same is true for Soldiers (Sailors, Air Force and Marines) from WWII, Korea, and, as I can assure you if my father is to be believed, from WWI, as evidenced by this quote.
 
Nothing was more important than killing chinks and he became good at it.

Now, with respect to:
 
Quote
Don't listen to the whiners suck it up and do your job".

I have made almost the exact same statement.  That is what I believed for many years.  And those many years were the same period of time during which I didn't believe in PTSS.  But that is also the same time frame during which I was having the same nightmare over and over; my Troopers were walking into an ambush and I could see it, but try as I might, I couldn't stop them or even make them hear me.
 
Why did I have this recurring nightmare?  I don't know.  Maybe part of it was survivor's guilt as Hodr said.
 
could never quit asking why he got out alive and others didn't.

I asked myself this same question over and over.  It has real meaning to me, especially since I was the one telling the ones who died to suck it up and do their jobs.
 
I feel those are a couple of reasons for my demon.  Did I have PTSS?  I don't know.  I only know that the dreams bothered me, and also poor Kathie as I would wake her during the night trying to holler at my Troopers.  But I didn't mention it or talk to anyone else about it.
 
And so, the dreams continued until, around 5 to 10 years ago, I was finally able to confronted that demon.

In the end I had only one more dream.  I was still in the ambush killing zone, but this time all my dead Troopers were motioning for me to come and join them.  That scared me, and woke Kathie again, as I didn't want to go.  I have been told that they were actually saying goodbye, but I don't think that is so.
 
From my experience I can only offer an opinion.  I now believe that something we have come to call PTSS exists, that it manifests itself in varying ways and degrees of effect on the individual, and it can be overcome.  But I also believe that all our life experiences shape who we are.  Combat is just one of them.  Having been to war doesn't automatically entitle one to an excuse for aberrant behavior no matter how many try to use that defense.
 
BTW, as an aside, I am probably more proud of my CIB then my jump wings or Master Aviator's wings which also had to be earned, albeit not in combat.  It means so much to me because, as I have often said, the greatest honor and responsibility a man can be given is the command of Infantry in combat.  May God keep all our military, past, present and future in his embrace.
Richard
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2011, 12:25:19 PM »
I have to say that in GW1 we did not have any serious casualties in my unit. I would have to think seeing my fellow soldiers hurt or killed would have caused me nightmares. That said I have no issues with having killed the enemy or seeing the thousands of dead. I actually enjoyed it.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2011, 05:56:19 PM »
Years ago we had a county judge who was about as a down home old country boy as you'll ever find. At an open county meeting with reporters even some state people there he was asked about sweet talking toyota to see if they would build in our county. He stood up, slammed his fist on the table and said, HELL NO, I hated them slant eyed sons a bs while I was killing them, and I hate em today.
I don't think my Dad would have ever shook hands with a jap after the war. He said that after he saw what they did to American prisoners it was no more than killing rabid dogs or rats. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Dinny

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2011, 06:11:49 PM »
I don't know member Dinny's exp and am not about to ask for a resume. He stated it was the wounded troops that got to him. Him being a combat medic, I think is a pretty darn tough job. Reading his posts etc he has his head screwed on straight.


I have always thought so. ;D  I just wish I could get my soldiers to realize what I say is experience-based and important. Just as I did, they will learn that it's not a game, but a life and death situation.


Thanks, Dinny


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Offline Shu

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Re: Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS)
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2011, 03:02:54 PM »
As a young troop I listened to what the senior people had to say thought it might do me some good. For the most part they were right about alot of things.
The human mind is a strange thing what breaks some men makes others stronger. Each deals with stress in his own way. I don't believe there is ever a reason to act out.
I am glad my time is done. I have found a few who thought getting out before 30 years made you a quitter.