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Author Topic: Questions on .35 Rem  (Read 2575 times)

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Offline Lon371

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Questions on .35 Rem
« on: September 25, 2011, 12:38:48 PM »
 I want a .35 rem. But I will have to use trimmed short brass to be Indiana Deer legal for next year.
 
 Do I buy a .357 barrel and rechamber? or try to find a .35 rem barrel?
 Would it be better to use the .357 barrel to get a shorter fit?
 
 Thanks
Lonny
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 03:31:42 PM »
Does the 35 make it? I mean thought it was too long? I was not aware modifications to a particular cartridge was "legal". Maybe incorrect word... Not allowed...
 
I know you want a 35Rem... but just to point out the obvious, the Maxi will likely do everything you need in this capacity.
 
CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2011, 03:42:30 PM »
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 08:43:40 AM »
CW
  Since they past the 1.8" I wanted either the 460 or 35 short(thanks for the idea Tim). Since I am buying 358 bullets already I could share between my Contender, DanWesson, Handi Maxi and a Handi 35 short. To go 460 I would have to find a .45lc then ream then stock up some brass and bullets. Just thinking the .357 barrel or .35 barrel will be easier to get. I will not be shooting over 125 150 yards anyways. Basicly it is an excuse for another rifle  ;)
 
Lonny
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 08:51:17 AM »
Lonny,

To address your question, I don't think it makes much difference which barrel you use as long as it's on an SB2 frame, both barrels have almost identical twist rates as long as you get a late model 357, the 357mag barrel might have a slightly tighter bore, but not enough to make any difference using .358" bullets, get what comes available first, the 35 Rem will save you the cost of rechambering, no extractor modification to make and won't likely cost much, if any, more than a 357 barrel.  ;)

Tim
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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2011, 03:28:34 PM »
You might get away with it; however, there are actually two aspects to any law. The first to be considered is the "letter of the law". Yes, you'd meet this test.
 
The second consideration is the "spirit of the law". In other words, how the law was meant to be interpreted. I don't think you'd prevail here. This is where a judge decides your fate.
 
Personally, I'd want a letter from the IDNR before I ventured into these waters. I think your answer will be "Its not a legal cartridge". 
 
Just my .02 cents....
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2011, 03:53:10 PM »
This has been discussed many times before Fred, their law specifically refers to case length, not chamber length, quote below is from the 2011 regs, new regs, if they use the same wording, will be 1.8" instead of 1.625".

Tim

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-deerhuntguide.pdf

Quote
Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet
of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches
are legal to use only during the deer firearm
season.
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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2011, 05:24:41 PM »
Yes, I read them again tonight before posting the reply.  I also see a "loophole" on using an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel or .264 Les Bauer for deer hunting in Indiana. I'm just not sure I want to be the person who establishes case law.  ;)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2011, 06:06:10 PM »
Seems to me I recollect someone asking a DNR officer about it and getting an Ok, but ya never know, what one says may not be what the next LE says.  :-\ The easiest way around that would be to have a 357mag rechambered to 35 Rem with the chamber neck cut short so a 35 Rem round couldn't be chambered, barrel could be marked 35RS (35 Rem Short)!  8)

Tim
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 07:04:56 PM »
Lonny,
  I have posted this question on another forum. ::)  I'll let you know what my gunsmith has to say. ;)




Thanks, Dinny
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Offline petemi

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2011, 02:49:57 AM »
I agree with Fred.  I wouldn't want to be the first to test the water.  I'd save the hassle and go with the Maxi. 

We have a similar legal quirk here in Michigan.  You can't carry anything other than shot  while turkey hunting.  If you have a CCW, you can carry your handgun.  Open carry is legal in Michigan, but you can't carry while hunting turkey???  Makes no sense.  To complicate things, small game and turkey coincide and you can carry anything for small game.  Officer, am I hunting turkey or small game?????  Another judgement call.

Pete
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2011, 03:05:05 PM »

This is the reply I got. Email me for a link and other info as it becomes available.

Actually, the cartridge will be a rimmed version of a shortened 35 Remington with a maximum length of 1.800. This cartridge will still use 35 Remington dies for loading but, will consist of using British 303 brass - because of it being "rimmed"...

As soon as I am through testing the 357 Maximum using a 1-14" twist rate barrel and testing 140-200 gr. bullets, I will then rechamber that barrel to the new cartridge and wring out it's performance as well. All testing and load data will be provided over here for you guys to check out...

A factory loaded .35 Rem will not fit this chamber.


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2011, 04:22:22 PM »
 Dinny
 
  I was just on that site  ;)  Must have been while you were typing. ;D
  That one does sound good. Would love to see the DNR guy when he looks at the head of the brass"303?" :o
 
 As far as the Maximum. I guess you could say I am married to them, My Contender and Handi are staying Maximums and will NOT be leaving anytime soon. ;)

Lonny
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Offline tobster

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 04:39:44 PM »
FWIW- I was told by the DNR that a .460 chambering is legal with .454 Casull ammo.
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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 06:47:25 PM »
Quote from: tobster on September 27, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
FWIW- I was told by the DNR that a .460 chambering is legal with .454 Casull ammo.

The .460 and the .454 both use a .452 diameter bullet. The difference is the .460 case is 1.80" long where the .454 case is 1.383" long.  Under the new regulations for next year the .460 will be a legal cartridge. So basically they are saying you can use .454 Casull in a .460 chambered rifle.

My point is the .454 Casull is already a legal rifle round where the 35 Remington is not a legal rifle round.

I say my .500 S&W can beat up your .460 shooting .454 Casull ammo !   :D
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2011, 07:01:23 PM »
Quote from: Fred McIntire on September 27, 2011, 06:47:25 PM
Quote from: tobster on September 27, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
FWIW- I was told by the DNR that a .460 chambering is legal with .454 Casull ammo.
So basically they are saying you can use .454 Casull in a .460 chambered rifle.




Yes, that has been the case since the new PCR laws were adopted in 2007/8. Next year, the 460 S&W will be legal as is. I like the idea of allowing a longer case, but don't see the need to expose myself to more recoil. The Maxi will do all I need it to...I plan to use it exclusively here in OK for hogs this year, maybe even a coyote or bobcat too. I just can't pass up targets of opportunity... ;D




Thanks, Dinny
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Offline phatgemi

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 05:34:54 AM »
I found this interesting from an old posting on another site:
"No fully automatic weapons may be used of course.
Other than that, the type of rifle is not limited.
The number of rounds the gun holds has not been limited, due to the fact currently legal shotguns are not limited and can hold just as many rounds.
Bolt action, single shot, lever action and semi auto’s are all legal, provided they fire ONLY LEGAL cartridges.(ie, a RIFLE which fires both a .410(legal) AND a 45/70(NOT legal) would NOT be legal to use)
Other cartridges are also legal, just as long as they meet the cartridge dimensions listed above."


I wonder if this is legit. I know many who will agrue that it is legal to use a 45/70 rifle as long as you are using 47/70 shorts which have been trimmed to the legal length. I personally understood the rule to be that if the rifle could fire an illegal round then it was not ok to use. Maybe I am misunderstanding since I am in the minority.


 
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Offline 44 Man

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 08:27:28 AM »
I understand your desire for the .35 rem, it's a cartridge I dearly love myself.  But if we are talking performance on deer sized animals, honestly the .357 max will do everything the .35 rem will do.  You can use your .358 bullets you have on hand and would only have to buy brass and dies.  I think the Max makes sense and takes you out of the 'gray' area of the law and from the need to made a special use .35 rem 'rimmed' cartridge for your gun, a lot more work than using the Max.  Of course if you just want to have something different......
My 2 cts.  And I agree with you, I'd rather have a .35 rem than the Max even knowing I gain very little with it, just because I like the .35 rem!  What ever you decide to do, good luck with your hunting!  44 Man
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 05:59:02 PM »

The first case is a factory British 303, the second case has been run through a full length 35 Remington die, the third case has been trimmed to 1.800" and the last case shows what the case would look like loaded and ready to fire...
Neck length is .240 and is still long enough to allow for adequate bullet tension



[/size]

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline parson48

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2011, 03:58:41 AM »
If I were to go this route (and I'm thinking about it), I'd trim the cases .001 or so shorter than the allowed 1.80. I wouldn't want a little bit of stretch, or sloppy trimming to cost me a bunch of money!

A little margin for error never hurts.
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Offline 44 Man

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2011, 08:23:15 AM »
It's never wise to 'push' the edge of the law, unless you keep an attorney on retainer!  44 Man
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2011, 12:02:33 PM »
Quote from: 44 Man on September 30, 2011, 08:23:15 AM
It's never wise to 'push' the edge of the law, unless you keep an attorney on retainer!  44 Man

 Not sure the New round Dinny is talking about is even close to being illegal, Unless you talk about the length. The barrel reciever will not chamber a .35 rem. So how would it be illegal?
 
Lonny
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Offline parson48

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2011, 12:32:41 PM »
My comment was in regards to trimming down a 35 rem case. Since the law deals with case length, and not case markings, this ought to be legal. But I  wouldn't  want to be found shooting one that was 1.80+".
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2011, 05:00:04 PM »
Quote from: parson48 on September 30, 2011, 12:32:41 PM
My comment was in regards to trimming down a 35 rem case. Since the law deals with case length, and not case markings, this ought to be legal. But I  wouldn't  want to be found shooting one that was 1.80+".

I agree with the extra trimming.
Lonny
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Offline Fred McIntire

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2011, 07:41:25 PM »
Quote from: parson48 on September 30, 2011, 03:58:41 AM
If I were to go this route (and I'm thinking about it), I'd trim the cases .001 or so shorter than the allowed 1.80. I wouldn't want a little bit of stretch, or sloppy trimming to cost me a bunch of money!

A little margin for error never hurts.

Hey Preacherman !
 
Say it ain't so ! A man of your stature is looking for loopholes ?   :o   What is the world coming too ?   ;D
 
Fred
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Offline parson48

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2011, 02:02:56 PM »
No loopholes Fred, just takin' full advantage of the situation.  ;D

Don't believe that the man with the badge would be impressed with "stature".

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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2011, 03:40:58 PM »
Is this law just about #'s. Is there nothing in it that talks about published or factory bullets?? Kurt
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2011, 03:47:06 PM »
The regs are there for the reading, they do list some cartridges that are legal.  ;)

Tim

Quote from: quickdtoo on September 26, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
This has been discussed many times before Fred, their law specifically refers to case length, not chamber length, quote below is from the 2011 regs, new regs, if they use the same wording, will be 1.8" instead of 1.625".

Tim

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-deerhuntguide.pdf

Quote
Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet
of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches
are legal to use only during the deer firearm
season.

Quote
Some cartridges legal for deer
hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40
Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44
Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester,
.45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475
Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express,
and .500 S&W.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2011, 04:59:22 PM »
BTW, this round has been named the 35 RSR, Remington Short Rimmed.  If available, the option to have .35 RSR 1.800" stamped onto the barrel may clear any disputes. ;)


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Questions on .35 Rem
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2011, 07:36:39 AM »
UPDATE

The 35 RSR has come to the same fate as many previous other wildcats, it is dead.

  Instead another 35cal wildcat has come to life. The new cartridge is based on a shortened 356 Win or shortened 307 Win case. The case will be trimmed back to a maximum length of 1.8" with the shoulder pushed back slightly to create an overall neck length of .250", which is more than adequate to hold a 35cal bullet for use in any break-open single shot rifle.

This same round can be made rimless by using 308 Win or 358 Win brass.

The 200gr FTX bullet and 180gr Hornady SS-PB have both been tested. Velocity with the FTX was 2400fps and the SS-PB was just over 2500fps. These were just starting loads and may have room for improvement. These velocities are nearing 250fps faster than the 357 Max.

Indiana DNR has already blessed this cartridge as being legal and are looking to add it to their "approved" listing. Perhaps we'll see it listed in the next hunting regs book for 2012.

This chambering will NOT allow another factory round to be chambered. In fact, your sizing die must be modified for correctly sizing this new cartridge.

With a 1:20" twist rate, 140-158gr bullets could achieve 2800fps. 1:14" twist rates would be optimal for bullets above 160gr.

This case holds 47.4gr of water to the base of the case neck, compared to 41.8gr of water to the very top of a 357 Max case.

.358 Win dies are the dies needed to load this wildcat. Also, this would work for a bolt action rifle with a bolt face measuring .473". ;)




Here's a pic of the new round with a 200gr FTX bullet seated to the bottom of the neck. The case to the left is the unmodified parent case.





A person could have their 357 Mag, Max or 35 Rem Handi rifles rechambered to this new cartridge.


If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email.




Thanks, Dinny
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