Author Topic: picked up a "sporter" carcano  (Read 2048 times)

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Offline matthew_h

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picked up a "sporter" carcano
« on: September 25, 2011, 08:07:18 PM »
hey guys i recently traded an old laptop for a carcano  that has been sporterized . I don't know much about carcano type rifles .From what i know its a 1917 build and has the two crossed rifle accuracy mark and it seems to have gain twist rifling .  i have some pictures so i hope you guys can help me ID it so i can see about finding an original stock if the barrel is not altered . 


















Offline bilmac

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2011, 03:08:58 AM »
I sporterized one years ago. You have to have a clip or the magazine will not work, I could never find one so it was a single shot. Also very hard to find reloadable brass. Norma made some for awhile. I was planning on converting 6.5 MS brass but sold it before I got too far into the project.

Your gun looks to be pretty much original as I remember the one I had. If the bbl. is gain twist, it is almost certainly original. I doubt it has been shortened, the rifle I had had a similar short bbl.

I believe that the Carcano's were noted for being very strong for such a simple and crude gun.

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 12:28:51 PM »
there was a nice looking stock hiding under that ugly finish . going to use an oil finish , most likely truoil since i have used it with good results before .  looking for a fixed 1 1/4  swivel for the front  hole that is already drilled , any one have one in there "junk" bin ?

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2011, 12:54:33 PM »
there was a nice looking stock hiding under that ugly finish . going to use an oil finish , most likely truoil since i have used it with good results before .  looking for a fixed 1 1/4  swivel for the front  hole that is already drilled , any one have one in there "junk" bin ?
would that I.D.  or O.D.?  I have one that's 1" inside.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2011, 01:06:53 PM »
There was a nice article on these in a recent Backwoodsman Magazine.  The enblock clips aren't hard to find.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2011, 03:59:14 PM »
@ bugeye any thing will work really i will send you a pm  .@ Swampman yeah i have seen several sights with the clips for sale . I think it should turn out to be a nice little sporter .

Offline Frank46

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2011, 06:33:59 PM »
Matt, not to sound like doom and gloom but the receiver ring looks like someone tried to cut through it with a hacksaw. Please accept this in the spirit in which it was intended your safety. I'd stick to factory loads as with that cut the integrity of the receiver ring may or may not be compromised. Frank

Offline rvtrav

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 07:03:40 PM »
 
 Matthew,
Graf & sons had privi-partizan brass on sale for the carcano last month, check them out if you have a chance, they probably have a competitive price on loaded ammo as well.
 
 The enbloc clips are easier to find than they used to be, thanks to the internet!
 
 Good luck with your new purchase, my neighbor found one at a pawn shop a few years ago, and with some casual load work, it ended up being a real good shooter, accurate, and comfortable to shoot.-Rvtrav
 
 

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2011, 07:15:13 PM »
Matt, not to sound like doom and gloom but the receiver ring looks like someone tried to cut through it with a hacksaw. Please accept this in the spirit in which it was intended your safety. I'd stick to factory loads as with that cut the integrity of the receiver ring may or may not be compromised. Frank

I have been wondering what that is ,it dose not look like a saw cut much to smooth and is v shaped . its also centerline of the bore . I can't afford to have a gunsmith check it over , thinking that this rifle may unfortunately end up scraped if i cant figure out what that is .

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 02:19:13 AM »
I've seen a couple with that groove and they were shooting away. I wouldn't worry.
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Offline shot1

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 03:28:16 AM »
Hornady makes a bullet special sized to fit their bore. The are not .264 but a little larger. Those rifles were considered one of the worst military rifles that ever was fielded. Most were not very accurate. Kennedy was "supposed" to have been shot with one.

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 09:48:45 AM »
I've seen a couple with that groove and they were shooting away. I wouldn't worry.

Good to hear , i though it looked like it was there a long time it looks milled. there is a mark to the right of the grove but it dose not look like anything major .

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 10:41:36 AM »
A friend on a local gun forum dropped off his boiled linseed oil for me to use . first coat is on , should be dry around 11pm . will get pictures if i can get my camera to stop acting crazy ::) .

edit camera is messed up , so here is a cell phone picture . the first coat of boiled linseed oil , another coat to follow at around 11 tonight .

Offline bilmac

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 02:49:54 PM »
The 6.5 Carcano cartridge is the ballistic twin of the 6.5 MS. The 6.5 MS was famous for shooting pencil length 160 gr bullets at 30-30 speeds. It was lauded as an excellent deer cartridge which killed cleanly without a lot of meat damage. I am pretty sure it uses a standard 264 dia bullet, that's what I used anyhow, I even cast bullets for it.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 03:25:37 PM »
that's gonna be a pretty rifle when you're done.  congrats.
like bilmac says, some long cast bullets at moderate velocity is deadly.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 05:39:31 PM »
thanks guys , i am unfortunately in the shotgun zone here in Michigan , but i am hopeful to get up north to the rifle zone sometime .  I do not reload , and figured this would be a good rifle to start with along with my other couple milsurps . I need to get a press and dies , but i am on a tight budget . i wish there was a lee loader in 6.5carcano .

I did the second coat a bit early , the first was dry . not sure how many i should do . it seems that its sealed and the grain/pores filled .

Offline Swampman

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 12:58:05 AM »
Coat a day for a week, coat a week for a month, coat a month for a year, coat a year forever.  Use just a few drops and wipe off as much as you can before it completely dries.  I like Min-Wax Satin Tung Oil Finish.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2011, 02:09:01 AM »
Coat a day for a week, coat a week for a month, coat a month for a year, coat a year forever.  Use just a few drops and wipe off as much as you can before it completely dries.  I like Min-Wax Satin Tung Oil Finish.
like swamp said, just keep on working on it.  the more you do, the prettier it will get.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Mikey

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2011, 03:05:37 AM »
MAtthew:  good trade.  You have a 6.5mm Italian M38 rifle, also known as the 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano.  These rifles were built in two different arsenals.  Some of the M38 rifles (shortened versions) were shortened from the M91 (I believe) longer rifle of the genre of the day and some of those rifles, when shortened, lost the gain twist at the end of the barrel and lost their accuracy as a result.  Those rifles manufactured as the M38 retained the gain twist and their accuracy. 
 
There was nothing inaccurate about the M38.  I owned two in the mid 60s and both were more than adequately accurate using the Hornady 160 gn .264 diameter bullet of the day.  The 6.5 Italian saw some 'funky' ammunition which was made during WWII.  One in particular carried a 'segmented projectile' that was designed for 'perimeter' defense and was designed to 'segment' at the end of the barrel and act like shot from a shotgun to possibly hit more than one target.  Interestingly enough, the same type of slug was seen in the picture of Kennedy on his stretcher in Dallas, which is what told me from the beginning that his assination was a internal plot as that slug would never have stayed together to penetrate the body. 
 
Anyhow, I used two Mannlicher Carcanos to cull many, many animals in Colorado in the mid 60s.  The only 6.5mm slug I could find at the time was the 160 gn rn and that worked just fine.  Later on someone came up with a 120 gn slug, or something like that and that one also worked fine.
 
Ain't nuthin' wrong with a 6.5 Italian.  Geez, if you replace that 160 gn slug with something like the 120s you comeup with 260 ballistics - OMG, did I say that??  Did I even think that the development of the 260 and then the 6.8, etc., could have been fostered by the notion of a rimless 6.5mm Italian round - oh yeah.  If you like the idea of the 260 or a 6.5mm round, the Carcano comes close enough to the Swede to be well worth the consideration. 
 
The action itself is a Mauser style but without the external ejector box on the left of the action and the box magazine.  I forget if the Japanese looked at the Mauser and Carcano actions to build their rifles or if the Italians looked at the Mauser and Arisaka to build theirs - probably the former not the later.
 
But, if your bore/rifling is good you should be able to get her to shoot well.  I would bed the action just to try to help the accuracy.  Good luck and have fun. 

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2011, 08:35:27 PM »
thanks for the support guys , i am waiting for the bedding epoxy to cure right now , and will 0000 steel wool the stock and do another coat and post pictures later tomorrow .

Offline shot1

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2011, 03:17:14 AM »
As I stated earlier in a post. The 6.5 Carcano DOES NOT USE .264 DIAMETER BULLETS. THEY NEED .268 DIAMETER BULLETS. Hornady makes a 160 gr RNSP .268 diameter bullet just for them. When you count the cost of a box of ammo for the 6.5 Carcano by Norma you can get into reloading really quickly. Look over gun shows, yard sales, flee markets, internet forums etc. and you can find used presses and tools. Lee does make a good set of dies for the 6.5 Carcano that you use in a press. All you really need is a press with a primer seater, dies, powder scale and one of the cheap Lee case trimmers and a neck champher tool and powder funnel. You can use and old spoon to dip powder out of a bowl or something to put into the scale. If you use stick powders you can pick up a pinch in your fingers to trickle in the last little bit of powder with no harm. Varget or IMR 4064 would most likely be the best powders for the 160 gr bullets.

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2011, 02:03:01 PM »
As I stated earlier in a post. The 6.5 Carcano DOES NOT USE .264 DIAMETER BULLETS. THEY NEED .268 DIAMETER BULLETS. Hornady makes a 160 gr RNSP .268 diameter bullet just for them. When you count the cost of a box of ammo for the 6.5 Carcano by Norma you can get into reloading really quickly. Look over gun shows, yard sales, flee markets, internet forums etc. and you can find used presses and tools. Lee does make a good set of dies for the 6.5 Carcano that you use in a press. All you really need is a press with a primer seater, dies, powder scale and one of the cheap Lee case trimmers and a neck champher tool and powder funnel. You can use and old spoon to dip powder out of a bowl or something to put into the scale. If you use stick powders you can pick up a pinch in your fingers to trickle in the last little bit of powder with no harm. Varget or IMR 4064 would most likely be the best powders for the 160 gr bullets.

I'm so broke i had to borrow a can of linseed oil from a friend lol , i won't be buying a press any time soon . .264 dia bullets work , just are not very accurate most the time .

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2011, 04:56:56 PM »
bedding is done except for some cleanup . there were big gaps , it fits real snug now .

Offline smokehouserex

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 10:18:43 PM »
 
 
  Hello matthew_h :
  I also have 2 carcanos, they have ammo pretty readily available now, Like the other man said , they are .267-8 dia. and the rifles have gain twist so don't cut the bbls. or they will probably never shoot, JMO. Clips are usually available in SGNews also ammo, bought some but it was .264 and I got 6-8 in groups@50 yds. and my bbls., bores ect. look good. I bought a box of Hornadys and they were .264 also. Be sure to ask the dia. before buying.
  I fit one of them into a different stock ,just to shoot it for curiositys sake , a very lite wt. gun and was surprised with the power.
  Frank DeHass in Bolt action rifles of the world book  has a lot of info on them, you can probably find a used one or borrow one , good reading.
  BTW, I am a 6.5 fan, Japs,Carcanos& .264Win.Mag.
  Safety First & enjoy.
  Hm

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 05:59:23 AM »









Offline smokehouserex

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2011, 01:22:55 PM »
 
 
  Hello again matthew_1:
 
  That is a nice looking rifle, I'm sure you will enjoy shooting, I was surprised by the recoil of the little gun when I shot the 160's, It was nothing wild but it caught me offguard.
  Enjoy the deer season and post some pics. of the deer that fall to the 6.5.
  safety first
  HM

Offline matthew_h

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2011, 10:58:56 AM »

 
  Hello again matthew_1:
 
  That is a nice looking rifle, I'm sure you will enjoy shooting, I was surprised by the recoil of the little gun when I shot the 160's, It was nothing wild but it caught me offguard.
  Enjoy the deer season and post some pics. of the deer that fall to the 6.5.
  safety first
  HM

thanks . I'm in the shotgun zone in Michigan , so no deer hunting with this . i use my in-line muzzle loader for the firearm season .

Offline Troyboy

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 12:43:48 PM »
Nothing wrong with a carcano. They have there place in history same as any milsurp. Nice sporter you have there.
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Offline bilmac

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 05:03:21 PM »
If you are going to shoot it with the original sights be aware that most military sights will shoot way high. You will need to figure out a way to make a taller front or a lower rear.

Offline surehuntsalot

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Re: picked up a "sporter" carcano
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2011, 06:23:35 PM »
nice looking rifle