Author Topic: Great Western Single Actions? (Read 2599 times)

Mike A. · « **on:** September 27, 2011, 02:17:56 PM »

Anybody else got one? Mine's a .22 with the high hammer and I think it was case colored originally, although the frame is now plum color. Perhaps the blued frames on these go plum like some Rugers. Anybody know?

Interested to hear if anybody knows which Colt SAA parts fit these. And do Colt replacement grips like those made by Vintage Grips fit Great Westerns? (Mine still has the original crappy fake plastic stags. Very 1954!).

Cleburne · « **Reply #1 on:** September 27, 2011, 05:38:23 PM »

I have a .38 Special with a 5-1/2" barrel. Just a slight trace of case colors in a small area on the frame. Has what I believe to be factory installed genuine stag grips, yellowed with age. Very light, smooth action.

Cleburne

Mike A. · « **Reply #2 on:** September 27, 2011, 06:08:03 PM »

I'll let you know what my .22 is like when I actually get hold of it. I know it will be HEAVY! It's a 4 3/4".

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2011, 01:54:40 AM »

not much experience with them. I owned a 357 atomic marked gun that my buddy talked me out of and a great western II 357. Both seemed like well put together guns.

Mike A. · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2011, 06:51:36 AM »

I have a couple of .357 Atomic loaded rounds in my ctg. collection. Dimensionally they are identical to standard .357 Magnum. Brass cases with Herter's headstamp. I was told that this was a higher velocity loading of the .357, sort of an early "+P".

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2011, 12:52:19 PM »

Original .357 Magnum loads didn't need a +P designation as they already were. Back then a 158 at 1550 fps was the standard. Now they don't even load 125s that hot.

There is sure a huge difference in recoil for today's factory ammo vs the ammo I was buying when I first started shooting it in my S&W M19 6". They changed the pressure on it at some point I guess when folks like S&W started chambering smaller guns like the J-frame M60 for the .357 Magnum.

Those old loads had some punch and were a lot more effective than today's factory ammo.

flatgate · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2011, 01:49:52 PM »

The Great Western Arms Company's release of a "Colt Clone" closely parallels Ruger's initial production of the .22 cal. Single-Six. GW produced "centerfires" long before Ruger did and even beat Ruger to the punch with their early .44 magnums.

IMHO, though, Ruger's early Flattop design "takes the cake"!

flatgate

Mike A. · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2011, 02:10:25 PM »

Yeah, Flatgate, I agree: once Ruger got going on SAs, neither Great Western nor Colt had much of a chance to dominate that part of the industry. Imports went mainly on price.

But Ruger didn't really cater to the "cowboy" crowd until very late in the game (Vaquero). Wonder what his attitude toward guys who "dress up Western" REALLY was? "All hat, no cattle?" Play acting didn't seem to me to be his cup of joe. More of a doer....

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2011, 06:30:44 AM »

44 Man has experience with what fits, Im sure he will be around.......

.

heyjoe63 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2011, 11:08:19 AM »

Mike A,

I just came across this post where you mention you have .357 Atomic loaded rounds.

Is it really true you have some?

I have been on the hunt for years just to see empty brass let alone loaded rounds.

Can you please provide some information or pictures?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Joe

crossfire · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2011, 04:32:26 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on September 28, 2011, 12:52:19 PM

Original .357 Magnum loads didn't need a +P designation as they already were. Back then a 158 at 1550 fps was the standard. Now they don't even load 125s that hot.

There is sure a huge difference in recoil for today's factory ammo vs the ammo I was buying when I first started shooting it in my S&W M19 6". They changed the pressure on it at some point I guess when folks like S&W started chambering smaller guns like the J-frame M60 for the .357 Magnum.

Those old loads had some punch and were a lot more effective than today's factory ammo.

I've always found it ironic that the .357 Magnum case was deliberately made longer in order to avoid having people attempt to use it in smaller frame revolvers. Everyone involved in the development of the 1st Magnum thought this was a good idea.
Apparently the manufacturers later reconsidered this idea and began making smaller and smaller .357 Magnum revolvers which, in turn, brought about a neutering of the cartridge by reducing the pressure approx. 25% from original loadings. SAAMI, after all is controlled by the manufacturers.
Maybe in hindsight, they simply should have left the .38/44 HV alone for those who believe they need .357 Magnum power in a compact CCW and extended the .357 Magnum's case even further (to about 1.375") so it couldn't be chambered in smaller frame revolvers and remain true to its original intentions.

Apologies to the OP for digressing. You might look here for stocks...
http://www.tombstonegrips.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=TGG&Category_Code=Hawes
(Look under Hawes/Sauer & Sohn in the index on the left)

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:33:43 AM »

I too have never seen a piece of brass or a loaded round but was told by some who have that it was actually loaded a tad bit milder then some of the 357 mag ammo of the day. Probably about simular to what is loaded in the 357 today.

crossfire · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2011, 07:58:47 PM »

There is a gentleman on another forum who recently did some testing of actual Remington 158gr .38-44 HV ammo in S&W .38-44 revolvers. He had a number of mis-fires due to the age of the ammo, but still had enough to get some solid velocity data. Google ".38-44 ammo" to find it.

Back to the OP. By everything I have read, the Great Western sixgun is a close relative of the predecessor to the current EAA Bounty Hunter, the Arminius, and some Colt parts (like the springs) will fit. I believe Matt Dillon's revolver in Gunsmoke was a Great Western.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2011, 12:48:50 AM »

I believe they saw a lot of action in Hollywood.

flatgate · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2011, 02:26:47 AM »

Here's a link to a wonderful pic of a GW chambered in .357 Atomic

Single Actions.com Great Western

Carl

heyjoe63 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2011, 10:32:40 PM »

So OP/Mike A--
Back to my original question, do you really have actual .357Atomic rounds, in hand???

Mike A. · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2011, 06:00:30 PM »

Hyejoe, what I have is two (2) .357s that I bought in a mixed box of shells a few years ago. They were in a ziplock bag with ".357 Atomic" written on it in black marker. They are regular .357s headstamped "Herters .357 Mag". Lead semi-wadcutter bullets with no half-jacket showing; look like the original .357 158 gr. rounds developed in 1935.

I had mis-remembered these as headstamped .357 Atomic; they aren't. Whether they were intended for .357 Atomic revolvers, I don't know. Not even sure they are not handloads, although they don't have any obvious die scratches or sizing rings.

(to answer your next obvious question, I can't do pictures--tried to take some and put them into the computer and was completely baffled. I'm afraid I'll have to wait until one of my children comes home for Christmas to get anybody pictures of anything. Kinda frustrating since I just got back from a visit to Italy and have a camera full! I may take them to a pro.).

But there's nothing about these except that old marking on the plastic to suggest that they are REALLY ".357 Atomic."

44 Man · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2011, 11:00:47 AM »

Sorry guys, I've been having computer problems (as in NOT having one at the moment), so I have not been able to check here as often as I'd like. As to parts, the originals (not the 'new' EMF Great Westerns) were very close Colt SAA clones excepting for the frame mounted firing pin. So most any Colt/clone parts should fit. I have used Uberti cylinder stop bolts in several brands of 'clone' guns with satisfaction, and that's the most likely part to need fiting. Of course most trigger/bolt stop springs and mainspring are pretty interchangable, except the older EMF 'Heritage' model had a slightly longer trigger spring. Grips are a crap shoot, same as for a Colt. There will likely be fitting involved to get them down to the grip frame dimentions unless you get really lucky. For that same reason I will not buy used Colt grips because most have been fitted at the factory meaning they may be too small for your Colt grip, or not. I believe if you buy an aftermarket set of grips for a Colt SAA they will most likely be a close fit, possibly needing to be dressed down a little to the frame. Right now I'm in the market for a set of the one piece style wood grips for an EAA Bounty Hunter if someone has a set lying around in a drawer. I'd love to have found a few Great Westerns back when they sold cheap. Now most people have discovered that they were of very high quality and the price has come up accordingly. 44 Man

Mike A. · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2011, 06:00:00 PM »

Thanks 44Man. Now I know where to look for spares, should I need them.

heyjoe63 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2011, 06:04:41 AM »

Quote from: Mike A. on October 23, 2011, 06:00:30 PM

Hyejoe, what I have is two (2) .357s that I bought in a mixed box of shells a few years ago. They were in a ziplock bag with ".357 Atomic" written on it in black marker. They are regular .357s headstamped "Herters .357 Mag". Lead semi-wadcutter bullets with no half-jacket showing; look like the original .357 158 gr. rounds developed in 1935.

I had mis-remembered these as headstamped .357 Atomic; they aren't. Whether they were intended for .357 Atomic revolvers, I don't know. Not even sure they are not handloads, although they don't have any obvious die scratches or sizing rings.

(to answer your next obvious question, I can't do pictures--tried to take some and put them into the computer and was completely baffled. I'm afraid I'll have to wait until one of my children comes home for Christmas to get anybody pictures of anything. Kinda frustrating since I just got back from a visit to Italy and have a camera full! I may take them to a pro.).

But there's nothing about these except that old marking on the plastic to suggest that they are REALLY ".357 Atomic."

Thanks Mike A for the info. Not the answer I was hoping for. You were my first lead on the mystical mythical .357 Atomic brass/ammo legend in months. They supposedly were made by Herters, so that makes sense. Something caused the guy to mark the bag Atomic. Maybe he had it figured out. Or maybe they were marked Herters but loaded hotter? Aaaargh. The search continues.

flatgate · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2011, 07:50:48 AM »

I have great news for all the Great Western fans out there! I got a phone call a couple of days ago from John Dougan, the man whom has written several books about Ruger Single Action revolvers. He's finishing up a book on the Great Westerns. I'll post more info when I can.

RugerForum.com members will see the announcement at the same time.

Stay Tuned!

flatgate

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:21:52 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 22, 2011, 12:48:50 AM

I believe they saw a lot of action in Hollywood.

I seem to remember reading Marion Morrison had at least one of these in his films.

CW

Frank V · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2011, 01:11:17 PM »

I think James Arness (Mat Dillon) used one in Gunsmoke too?

Frank

flatgate · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2011, 12:37:30 AM »

Quote from: Mike A. on September 27, 2011, 02:17:56 PM

the frame is now plum color. Perhaps the blued frames on these go plum like some Rugers. ).

Great Western contracted the same investment casting company as Ruger to produce the cylinder frames in the early days of Ruger's .22 Cal. Single-Sixes. Here's a Ruger made in 1953, one of only 65 made during the initial production run.

Kinda plum, eh?

Below is a casting for the Single-Six.

Carl

heyjoe63 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 03, 2011, 04:21:53 AM »

Quote from: flatgate on October 29, 2011, 07:50:48 AM

I have great news for all the Great Western fans out there! I got a phone call a couple of days ago from John Dougan, the man whom has written several books about Ruger Single Action revolvers. He's finishing up a book on the Great Westerns. I'll post more info when I can.

RugerForum.com members will see the announcement at the same time.

Stay Tuned!

flatgate

You can already preorder AUTOGRAPHED copies on the Great Western Forum. Also, book is co-authored by John Dougan and Jim Hoobler.

http://gwcollector.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=231

flatgate · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2011, 04:57:51 AM »

Have any of you GW fans seen the above Display? It's AWESOME!

PS

Info http://www.gunandswordcollector.com/Templates/book%20pages/dougan_hoobler_GW.html