Author Topic: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!  (Read 970 times)

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Offline tacklebury

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So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« on: September 29, 2011, 03:04:52 PM »
I've been itching for some time to do this and finally got all my ducks in a row and have succeeded.  Bear with me as it's a bit long and I'll try to detail a bit.  As an introduction, I've been wanting to make a .22 caliber muzzle loader, but at the same time, I really thought why make a new gun just for this, there's got to be a way to make a .22 work for muzzle loading easily.  As a platform for my project, I decided to use my Marlin 70P "Papoose" since it has an easy to access barrel end and breaks down into a nice case:

Big issue is that I still want to be able to use it with std. .22 LR ammo as well.  So with a bit of research and testing I came up with the following tap:

Which is the correct tap size to directly tap the chamber of a .22 rimfire and small enough thread to avoid having brass extruding itself into the threads when shooting regular ammo.  Here's the nipple:

Sorry, phone doesn't do well with the close-up, so later I'll try to take some better pics.  ;)  Anyway, I ran the tap into the chamber of the Papoose barrel about 3/8":

Once this was done, I made sure there were no burrs with a round file and then went out and shot up a clip of ammo...  Good to go so far!  No apparent effect on the ammunition extraction.  8)  So now I thread in the nipple with a tiny bit of breechplug grease that I use on my Muzzle loaders:

Then I re-attach the barrel to the receiver of the Papoose:

Finally, I use my smallest Lee Dipper (.3cc) to measure out some Goex ffffg:

For ammo, I've picked up two things, first off round lead BB's made by Gamo, but they are too loose and roll out the bore, so I use thermal recept paper to create a wad.  Once the balls are started, I rip off the tail and ram it down.

I have picked up some 30gr. NAA CBB style bullets too, but haven't had a chance to test with them yet:

So finally, I load up my brass cap dispenser with Remington #11 caps and step out on the back porch with the breech locked back in it's retaining divet:


Anyway, I am still working on the bolt release mechanism, but basically, It acts as the hammer and fires the cap.  I have drilled a small hole in the retaining divet on the left of the frame and I'm making a spring clip, which can be snapped on when wanting to do the muzzle loading:

  Rifle shot pretty close to POA, but it's a rainy day here and didn't have much time to set up paper and such.  Will post back more when I can put some on paper too.  8)  I was simply letting the bolt go manually today.  8)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline hillbill

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 04:46:02 PM »
who woulda thunk it? impressive! keep us posted

Offline Austin from NC

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 08:04:45 PM »
More, more wanna see more.

       Austin
(choot it, choot it Elizabeth, choot it) Troy Landry

Offline DANNY-L

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 02:37:47 AM »
If there's a will there's away,great imagination.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 02:46:31 PM »
 
Well, I got out to my Dad's today and shot it quite a bit more.  Does really well.  I haven't finished the thumb firing mechanism yet, so all these are still just manually holding open the bolt.  8)  I had dad take some videos documenting it's firing etc. on my phone.  He did ok and I got 3 usable ones anyway.  hehe  Not bad since he's almost 70 and hates techy stuff.  ;)  Below are links to the 3 You-Tube videos for you to watch if you want to see her in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJAwvttpWzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_A_M3TO9i0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In3CcM2hFTc

I also got picks of a couple of the groups I shot today on paper plates.  I forgot to take my dirty bird targets along.  8( 
First one here is at 15 yards using the .22 Round ball pellets and thermal receipt paper wad:


Second one is at 15 yards using the 30 gr. NAA CBB bullets:

The first three shots grouped right around the bullseye on this one, then the last two flew to the right and almost one holed.  I'm thinking that the microgroove rifling liked these, but wanted to be cleaned after a 3-shot.  The Round balls didn't seem to care how many I shot, but weren't too consistent in comparison.  ;)

So anyway, hope you guys enjoy watching and seeing this.  I'm entering phase two of my testing with this concept, so hopefully, I'll have some more interesting stuff to report on this in the next few weeks.  ;)

 
 
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline hillbill

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 04:39:24 PM »
im understanding yu jus lettin the bolt fly home? no trigger action?im thinkin yur on the way to a 22 bp gun we just need more research?

Offline tacklebury

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 03:16:00 PM »
Yep, the bolt is the hammer in this case.  Since the cap is near the size of a 22 shell, the little dimpled area the shell usually sits in hits perfectly centered on the cap each time.  Once I get the spring clip mounted on the left side of the receiver, it will push the bolt release until it snaps the bolt free.  As I said too, I was pretty sure I could make a straight up 22 Muzzle loader, but I wanted to see if it was worth it, and I think it is.  I am also working on another phase of this item, which is under raps (not illegal or anything) but I don't want to open that door until I get it working.  ;)  I am into flexibility and one thing I like about this, is you can put very little powder down the spout and you can gallery shoot also.  ;)  I shot one with a double scoop and BAM was like unto a .22 Magnum, so I think this makes for more flexibility in power.  This is nice in a survival/SHTF scenerio so you can get maximum usage of your resources.  ;)  Plus it's super easy!  The tap cost me 6 bucks and tapping the chamber was the most complex part taking a whopping 15 minutes.  The nipple cost me $5.99 and all the 22 bullets cost me 15 bucks...  for like 1150 bullets.  Receipt paper is free and I just throw it away.  Plus I was given the can of ffffg powder and don't own a flintlock (yet), so figured what the heck!
 
***edit***
 
Plus the tap will be good to do, I'd say about 20,000 chambers.  ;)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline tacklebury

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 01:02:44 PM »
I have one small request if anyone is interested.  I'd like to proof this concept using a std. .22 cal rifle mold.  I will in time buy some molds to try, but it'll be a while before this can become a reality.  If anyone has some .22 molded bullets and would send me 10 or so, I can test each mold out see about groups and figure out which ones will stabilize with the microgroove rifling.  Anyone who'd be willing to help shoot me a pm with the Mold maker and cherry number.  That way I am not getting lots of duplicates.  If we find some that work well, I'll be sure to post the data here too.  ;)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline tacklebury

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 05:49:00 PM »
Well one quick update so far.  Cornbelt a.k.a. Tim was kind enough to send me something I'd never heard of in the form of Daisy VL .22 caseless ammo.  Apparently, this was used in a firearm Daisy designed in the 60's and fired .22 cal bullets without a case using compressed air heat to set off the charge.  Kind of a neat concept.  Anyway, the idea died and here's a picture of some of this now defunct ammo:
 

 
Tim apparently bought some mistakenly years ago and thought it might work in my .22 Marlin Muzzle loader and work it did!  It worked perfectly with no misfires or other issues.  Unfortunately, I still haven't finished my thumb release bolt spring, so I am still dropping the hammer, so to speak, in a manual manner and tonight I had only 20 or so minutes when I finally made it to the range and got set up.  Thus, I have only one group that wasn't that stellar.  The wind was about 25 mph today also, and kept spinning my target, so sometimes, the bullets were slicing into it at about 45 to 60 degrees.  Ah well, I was still pretty happy to see how nicely they loaded and all.  Thinking later, I might wet some ffffg powder with a water & dextrose binder and try making some little charges like this in a board with a dowel rod to push out the finished caseless round.  Thanks so much for contributing to my research Tim, was a blast to shoot em.  I will try the other pellets also at some point, but didn't have time today.  8(  Anyway, here's the target from 25 yards:
 
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline briarpatch

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 01:50:59 AM »
I want to say something but I am "typeless"   Good job.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 04:04:59 PM »
Well hopefully typeless is a good thing.  hehe  I'm not really sure though.  ???   I just hope that it is an interesting project to people.  Simple cheap way to throw some lead around in a different fashion.  ;)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline briarpatch

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Re: So my muzzle loader of a different flavor!
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 07:04:50 PM »
If I were talking it would be speechless. I find that fasinating, again good job.