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Author Topic: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???  (Read 555 times)

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Offline jim36

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Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« on: October 03, 2011, 02:21:51 PM »
Great day to shoot. 65 to 75 degrees and no wind. While shooting the 45 70, I was getting some good results and then, 1 to 1 1/2'' difference. Tried to figure it out. Found that I had mixed some Hornady (short) cases along with some Remington cases. Both were the same COL. I know there have been some posts concerning the diffrence in the two cases. Have any of you reloaders noticed this? I think I am going to stick with the RP cases from now on. What say Ye"                Jim
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 03:55:23 PM »
Yep, tried messin with the Hornady, but they are a real pain being 1/8" shorter than std.  Guess they did it so they could make FTX bullets longer and still stay inside std. throat dimensions for typical lever guns.  Needless to say, I've only used them for shooting some really long nosed leads and just loaded them using the old Lee Classic loader - rap-n-tap style.  Very difficult to get crimping to work with std. dies too.  8(  I stick to my Starline .45-70 for all normal loads.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 04:03:03 PM »
IMO the LE cases (& ammo) aren't worth fooling with.
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Offline tacotime

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 11:04:16 AM »
How many shot do you fire before cleaning the bore at the range?
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 11:28:02 AM »
The difference in cases will change the groups. One brand of case may have harder/thicker brass, the other may have more room at the head. Chances are if you were to switch back and forth between Rem and WW or Starline you'll see groups open up.
 The other factorcould be if you're shooting cast that are to small for the bore or using crayon crap for lube , leading can be sneaking in on you.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 01:05:02 PM »
Quote from: tacotime on October 04, 2011, 11:04:16 AM
How many shot do you fire before cleaning the bore at the range?

I never clean the bore at the range and rarely clean the bore at home.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 01:15:19 PM »
Makes sense you would get slightly different grouping.  If all the cartridges were loaded to the same over all length, powder space will be slightly different between the short and longer cases, as will the amount of the bullet being held by the case.  I have several hundred RP cases I reload.  Have about 60 LE cases I have not tried yet.  Crimping should not be an issue if I use them in my SxS.
 
Larry
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Offline GH1

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 01:18:33 PM »
 I dealt with the same thing. I picked up 50 primed cses at a gun show for the low price of $20.00. When I tried to load them I found out why they were so cheap, they were all LE cases.
 I wasn't able to crimp them with my RCBS dies, although the folks at Hornady told me their dies will work. Shortening the dies will work, but the dies didn't belong to me so I didn't want to start grindng on them.
 I bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die, as I was led to believe OAL wasn't an isse. It turned out I had to shorten the Lee die and although I can now load I'm not really happy with the crimp I'm getting. Fortunately I have a Handi so crimp isn't that big of a deal, but I felt it was pretty underhanded of the vendor to sell me the brass without warning me. Maybe he didn't know, but I doubt it. I think he sized and primed them only to be unable to load them.
 I'll continue to use them until they're shot out, but I'll never make that mistake again.
GH1 :)
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 02:59:06 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on October 04, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Quote from: tacotime on October 04, 2011, 11:04:16 AM
How many shot do you fire before cleaning the bore at the range?

I never clean the bore at the range and rarely clean the bore at home.

That must be the secret to those iron sighted bug hole groups you get, next I guess you use K-Y jelly for bullet lube? LOL
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 03:24:22 PM »
I just don't see any sense in cleaning the bore of a rifle unless you're using corrosive primers  or blackpowder.  If you clean then you have to shoot 6-7 rounds to get the rifle to settle down again.  Most our thoughts on cleaning are from WWII and our father's or grandfather's drill sargents.  It just wears your barrel out.  If accuracy falls off then clean.  Once a year after hunting season seems to work for me.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline gr8ful

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 03:45:23 PM »
Glad to see ya back swampman, been missin ya.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 08:06:40 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on October 04, 2011, 03:24:22 PM
I just don't see any sense in cleaning the bore of a rifle unless you're using corrosive primers  or blackpowder.  If you clean then you have to shoot 6-7 rounds to get the rifle to settle down again.  Most our thoughts on cleaning are from WWII and our father's or grandfather's drill sargents.  It just wears your barrel out.  If accuracy falls off then clean.  Once a year after hunting season seems to work for me.

You exactly right Swampy!  But I tell ya, cleaning that bore after every outing is a hard habit to break!   :-\   I'm still working on that once a year thang, but it's real hard!
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Offline jim36

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Re: Range day with the 45 70. Questions???
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 04:21:26 AM »
I don't clean the bore at the range. But, like Richard, it's a hard habbit to break , cleaning after a day at the range. Being an old man, that habbit was instilled in me many years back.
There will be no more loading of the LE cases for me. Thanks for the input. I think BigEasy hit the nail on the head.
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