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Offline lester

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Help
« on: October 03, 2011, 03:54:12 PM »
Gents -

Hoping someone can help. Have an NEF Huntsman .50 cal with a 1.5-5x TC scope on it. When I bought the MZ barrel I got the 26" version. Always shot well with Hornady 240 grain XTP's. Then one day about 4-5 years it started shooting all over the place at the range. On a hunch I took the scope off and shot the open sights, it was dead on. The scope had crapped out, first time I ever had that happen. Sent it back to TC, they sent me a new one. Put it on, zeroed, good to go. This spring I was having trouble with ignition so I took it to a smith who specializes in MZ's. While at his shop he showed me a couple of Huntsman's he'd cut down to carbine length, they balanced really well and felt great in my hands. The 26" barrel on mine always made feel front heavy and I never liked that about the gun. So I had him cut it down to 21" and wow, it was like a new gun, short, light, balanced. All was good 'til today at the range, first time shooting it. Started with the 240 grain XTP's w/ green sabot. 4 shots, not one within 6 inches of the other! Switched to 250 grain TC Shockwaves, same thing! Was shooting Blackhorn 209, tried 80 and 90 grain loads, no dice. No option to go to open sights as the short barrel isn't drilled/tapped for a front sight. So either I have ANOTHER TC scope that's gone bad, or the shorter barrel length isn't giving the bullets enough spin to stabilize. A buddy who was with me thinks it's the barrel, suggested a non-sabot conical. Cheaper option than a new scope, but the symptoms are so similar, I think it's the scope. BTW, I checked all the scope mounts/rings, etc at the range, all were tight. Any ideas or help would be appreciated. Thanks,

Lester
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Lester

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"

Offline Slackdaddy

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Re: Help
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 04:15:11 PM »
I have a H&R MLer cut and crowned to 20", 2" group at 100 yds. (and thats my shakey shooting)
I shoot 260-330 gr PR Bullet Ultimates and 330 gr keith nose.
PR makes some .40cal 260 gr for the 50 cal ML, or even the .357 in a double sabot.
You want the bullet longer and smaller Dia in a problem gun.
 
But, your pissing in the wind till you put another scope on and eliminate that.
 
Slack
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Offline fastchicken

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Re: Help
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 05:37:41 PM »
Having the barrel cut won't have anything to do with bullet stabilization, example: a 1 in 48" rate of twist is a 1 in 48" rate of twist no matter how long of a barrel it is. Barrel could be 2" or 2 feet, the bullet will be spun at the same rate.
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Offline bubba

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Re: Help
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 02:02:32 AM »
I would check the crown closely.  It may not be right.  If the scope was on and you cut the barrel znd now it is not on, my guess would be the crown.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 09:39:03 AM »
Is BH209 the same powder you were using before the cut and recrown?  Does your barrel have a sealed breech plug or the factory plug with the plastic primer carriers?
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Help
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 01:39:53 PM »
Another vote for a closer look at the crown.  If it shot fine, right up until the barrel modification, then chances are that is it.  Length changes alone may change the point of impact, but shouldn't make a dramatic change in group size.  An inspection of fired sabots might find a slight tear, or uneven blackening, indicating a possible burr, or uneven crown.  You might want to mount a scope from another rifle and try it, just to put that possibility to rest.
 
Larry
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Offline lester

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Re: Help
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 04:53:51 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  Slack, you're right, first thing is to rule out the scope.  All my scopes are mounted and zeroed on rifles but I do have a 30mm Pentax red dot sitting on the shelf.  That will go on this weekend and we'll see if it holds a group.  Good point on the twist, thanks.  The crown looks good to my untrained eye, but what the heck do I know.  I did pick up a yellow sabot at the range.  It looked fine, in fact it looked near perfect except for the base that was flared out.  I saw, but didn't pick up, a piece of a green XTP sabot too.  It was one petal that had been seperated from the rest.  Didn't consider at the time it could have been tore up exiting the barrel at the crown.  Again, thanks to all.  I'll report back on scope/crown once I get a chance to get back to the range.
 
Lester
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Lester

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 05:31:32 PM »
Just caught your signature line; ;D

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"

Is there a chance I can meet the little lady?  ;)

Just funnin yah.  ;D I agree with bubba on the possible problem, with a vote also for checking to make sure the scope's not bad.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 06:12:42 AM »
One other possiblity is you have a good crown but it is sharp enough to dig into your sabots when you load them.   I have read where folks that have converted H&R 45-70s to MZs have modified the crown to eliminate this problem.  I do not know what the modification is but maybe someone else here does.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline lester

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Re: Help
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 01:35:35 AM »
Well it's hard to believe that I'd have two scopes of the same brand (TC Hawken) go bad, but that's what this ended up being.  Sunday I mounted an old Tasco 3-9 I forgot I had and 6 shots later it was dialed in, 1.5" group at 100 yards.  Thanks for all the suggestions guys, and I'm real glad it wasn't the crown.  Deer season opener's right around the corner and I was running out of time...
 
Lester 
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Lester

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 03:57:33 AM »
Happy to hear it worked out for you.  8) Now go get them, deer!  :D
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline lester

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Re: Help
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 04:46:06 AM »
Wiil do OSR, thanks.  I assume from your name you're current or former Army?  Same here, former 15T/11B type, now 00Z CSM, 28 years and counting.
 
Lester
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Lester

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 05:57:04 AM »
Top,

Former 11B4P/05B4P (VN years).  If no one has said it before, Thanks for your service.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline lester

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Re: Help
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 12:19:13 PM »
Thank you OSR, and the same thanks goes to you and your VN era comrades!
 
Lester
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Lester

"My greatest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my hunting and fishing gear for what I told her I paid for it"
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