Author Topic: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.  (Read 2160 times)

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TM7

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Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« on: October 05, 2011, 05:13:14 AM »
Koch Brothers are primary financiers of the Tea Party and Heritage Foundation conservative front groups..and are anti union purveyors. Now they are accused of trading with the enemy.... Iran!! Then go into denial mode.
 This bears some watching....
 
fyi..TM7
 
 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/billionaire-koch-brothers-in-the-dock-over-trades-with-iran-2365181.html
 
    Billionaire Koch brothers in the dock over trades with Iran Tea Party backers made multimillion-dollar deals with Tehran, report claims

By Guy Adams in Los Angeles

  Tuesday, 4 October 2011
 
                         The leading financiers of the Tea Party movement were last night attempting to rebut claims that a portion of their wealth comes from secretly doing business with the most un-American trading partner imaginable: the hard-line government of Iran.

Charles and David Koch, the prominent billionaires who fund a string of influential conservative think-tanks, stand accused of selling tens of millions of dollars worth of petrochemicals to Tehran, despite a longstanding US trade embargo against the nation that the former President, George W Bush, dubbed a pillar of his "Axis of Evil".
It has been reported that Koch Industries used foreign subsidiaries to supply the products, in an apparent effort to stay within the letter – if not the spirit – of the law. It has been suggested that the company used dozens of lawyers to help find a way around the embargo, and was trading with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's regime as recently as 2007.
The news was just one of a string of revelations made by Bloomberg Markets magazine, which gave 14 reporters, in several countries, six months to investigate the brothers and their business dealings. Their 14-page report was published on Sunday night.
Koch Industries yesterday issued a lengthy statement claiming that the article was the result of "substandard reporting" and contains "major inaccuracies". It insisted the sales to Iran were legal, and said that Bloomberg's reporting team "relied heavily on unreliable sources, despite our warnings".
 
The magazine's piece represents the latest effort by journalists to get to the bottom of the source of Charles and David Koch's fortune. The brothers, aged 75 and 71 respectively, built their corporation from an oil company they inherited from their father. They are now worth around $20bn each.
Though the siblings have traditionally kept a low profile, in recent years they have faced increased scrutiny for the roughly $50m they have donated since 2006 to non-profit organisations and think-tanks. These groups organise Tea Party events, and campaign against what they see as excessive taxes and burdensome industry regulation.
Bloomberg's piece relies heavily on information gleaned from newly obtained documents which were lodged with French employment tribunals in two labour cases involving the company's European subsidiary, Koch-Glitsch.
In addition to detailing the sales to Iran, the documents suggest the company paid illegal bribes in six countries between 2002 and 2008 to win contracts in Africa, India and the Middle East. It allegedly then sacked a compliance officer who complained to superiors about the practice. Some of the paperwork is described by Sara Sun Beale, a criminal law professor at Duke Law School, as a "smoking gun". It includes communications in which Koch employees admit that their "activities constituted violations of criminal law".
Bloomberg's reporters spoke to a string of former employees who were highly critical of the company's ethics. It offered their perspective on a number of controversies which Koch Industries have suffered during recent years. They say the corporation, which never publishes its accounts and says only that its annual revenue is approximately $100bn a year, "rigged prices with competitors, lied to regulators and repeatedly ran afoul of environmental regulations, resulting in five criminal convictions since 1999 in the US and Canada".
In one incident, the firm was alleged by US Senate investigators to have pilfered 1.95 million barrels of crude oil from federal lands by falsifying purchasing records. One former employee said the practice of incorrectly measuring oil was known internally as "The Koch Method". In another one of the misdemeanours detailed in the piece, the firm was found by regulators to have ignored federal rules regarding oil pipeline safety. This reportedly resulted in an explosion which caused the death of two people in Lively, Texas, in 1996.
A spokesman for Koch acknowledged some past mistakes. However, in a statement which ran to almost 2,500 words, it said the company has altered its previous practices to stay within the law. With regard to trading with Iran, their approach is "more conservative than that required by US law".
The billionaire brothers
* The two brothers, Charles, 75 and David, 71, each have a net worth of $20bn after inheriting their father's small oil company and turning it into a huge conglomerate operating in dozens of countries. They are enthusiastic promoters of lower taxes, free markets and small government and they have given millions of dollars to right-wing candidates. The brothers have hit back at what they perceive as a media obsession with their activities. A "Koch counter" on the company website measures the "fixation at The New York Times" and totals the newspaper's reports about them

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 07:19:40 AM »
TM7,
 
I see the words "alledged" and "former employee" a lot in this article. Could there not be the slightest bit of slant or sour grapes with this ;)  just maybe 8)
 
Have you ever typed "George Soros" in your search engine ;D  Just out of curiosity? Seems like there is more than enough of this going on on both sides to me. Just my .02
 
CR
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Offline tattoo13

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 07:30:05 AM »
It has been reported that Koch Industries used foreign subsidiaries to supply the products, in an apparent effort to stay within the letter – if not the spirit – of the law. It has been suggested that the company used dozens of lawyers to help find a way around the embargo, and was trading with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's regime as recently as 2007.

So they didn't break the law.
They own a business in a country that does not have an embargo on dealing oil with Iran, so that business did, why is this news?

If you have a brother that lives in Amsterdam and he does drugs that are legal there but illegal here is are you a criminal?

Offline huntducks

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 09:18:29 AM »
Didn't GE have bus. dealing with IRAN? big time oblamer supporter...
Remember it's where the first bullet goes out of a cold barrel that counts most.

Offline tattoo13

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 10:52:27 AM »
and the rank and file TPer supports bombing Iran for about any old reason

Not sure if you have been to any tea party rallies or have actually had much interaction with any tea party people outside of this board, but in my experience most have no interest in fighting unnecessary wars.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 12:26:24 PM »
  Let's see;
 
  Obama has been accused of being a Muslim,  a Kenyan and the anti-Christ..
 
  Ron Paul has been accused of credit card fraud..  http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?34053-Ron-Paul-Campaign-accused-of-Credit-Card-Fraud
 
   Should we believe everything anyone has been ACCUSED of ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline kinslayer1965

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 06:06:03 AM »
 
Just thought I would throw this out there. Source is at the bottom.
 
   Here comes another Koch/Tea Party smear  By: Mark Tapscott | 09/19/11 8:05 PM
Editorial Page Editor  It looks like another liberal mainstream media outlet may be about to level a broad-gauge hit piece against Charles and David Koch. A couple of Bloomberg reporters have been digging dirt on the Kansas brothers who own one of the world's largest private corporations. For years, the two have devoted part of their substantial private wealth in support of political activities and causes with which they agree.
It's OK with the liberal mainstream media when lefty billionaires like George Soros thus spend their fortunes, but Lord help those on the Right who do so.
The Kochs are libertarians who believe that free enterprise, individual liberty and the rule of law are the best creators and guardians of prosperity and opportunity for everybody.
That's not a radical notion, as a majority of Americans would mostly agree with the Kochs. So nobody outside of the fever swamps of the Left was surprised to discover a Koch-backed group -- Americans for Prosperity -- is a major player in the Tea Party movement.
When it became clear during the 2010 campaign that the Tea Party movement was no passing fancy for millions of Americans, however, the Left shifted multiple divisions of its hate army from the continuing assault on Sarah Palin to go after the Kochs.
The Koch brothers provided the Left with a convenient stereotype -- two rich guys from middle America running an allegedly evil corporation with world-encircling tentacles -- to glom onto the Tea Party to discredit it.
And so we've heard ever since how the Tea Party is an astroturf tool the Kochs created to protect their millions. Jane Mayer's lengthy conspiracy-sopped August 2010 New Yorker article is the piece de resistance in this effort.
More recently, several Bloomberg reporters have been trolling among former Koch employees across the pond in search of disaffected voices willing to talk.
One of those appears to be Ludmila Egorova-Farines, formerly European manager for ethics and commercial compliance for Koch-Glitsch Sarl, or KGF, a subsidiary of a subsidiary of Koch's international operations that was dissolved last year.
Evidence was found four years ago that other KGF employees had paid bribes to obtain business. An investigation was begun, and Egorova-Farines was one of the investigators. Ultimately, more than two dozen people were either terminated or allowed to resign.
Koch USA officials say they were as surprised and angered as anybody else when they were first apprised of the bribery allegations, and moved as quickly as possible to get to the bottom of the situation and fix it.
But, during this period, Egorova-Farines grew progressively unhappy with KGF, allegations of discrimination were lodged, and her case went to the Employment Tribunal of Paris.
All of Egorova-Farines' claims were dismissed. She appealed and the decision was overturned on a technicality. KGF and Egorova-Farines then settled out of court.
I spent a lot of my reporting years working with whistleblowers, mainly within the government, and generally find them admirable. But, like the rest of us, they're just human and can have very mixed motives, of which careful journalists must always be aware.
A former U.S. government official of my acquaintance was approached recently by one of the Bloomberg reporters working on a Koch investigative piece. After some conversation about the French case, the reporter said, "the other interesting thing here is Koch has strong ties to the Tea Party."
When the official asked what the Tea Party had to do with French bribery allegations, the reporter dropped the topic.
I've also had occasion to meet a lot of Bloomberg journalists over the years and have been unfailingly impressed by their professionalism. But they're human, too, and can make mistakes.
Joining the rampant Koch-bashing would be a mistake.
Mark Tapscott is editorial page editor of The Washington Examiner. Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/09/here-comes-another-kochtea-party-smear#ixzz1a0vlkaBo
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 11:48:50 AM »
Another witch hunt, huh?  Not suprised by who posted it either...
Buckskin

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 12:05:11 PM »
Didn't GE have bus. dealing with IRAN? big time oblamer supporter...

Don't know...maybe?,,,also of interest since they make political contributions to both sides of the aisle.
 
But Koch Bros thru Heritage Foundation, etc. essentially hjacked and own the TP...and the rank and file TPer supports bombing Iran for about any old reason... maybe not here, but I'm certainly not the only guy that finds that odd...and would like alot more info on Koch business with Iran,,,and other US companies, too.
 
..TM7
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  WOW TM!  .. you really don't know the first thing about the tea party..  You make all kinds of false accusations about them.. none of them accurate..
  You worry about the Koch brothers donating money to political campaigns..check out the big shots in Solyndra and some of the other "green energy" companies who got huge chunks of our tax monies..and don't forget Pelosi's brother-in-law !
      CEO of GE is Jeff Immelt, Obama's jobs czar..Ge just shipped a whole division from Wisconsin to China..not a peep from BHO..Hmmm
   Boeing wants to build a plant in S Carolina..Obama is going bonkers..guess he would rather Boeing went to China also..
 
   Let's face facts..  We have the "Chicago mob" running the US capitol..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Buckskin

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 03:38:29 AM »
Didn't GE have bus. dealing with IRAN? big time oblamer supporter...

Don't know...maybe?,,,also of interest since they make political contributions to both sides of the aisle.
 
But Koch Bros thru Heritage Foundation, etc. essentially hjacked and own the TP...and the rank and file TPer supports bombing Iran for about any old reason... maybe not here, but I'm certainly not the only guy that finds that odd...and would like alot more info on Koch business with Iran,,,and other US companies, too.
 
..TM7
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  WOW TM!  .. you really don't know the first thing about the tea party..  You make all kinds of false accusations about them.. none of them accurate..
  You worry about the Koch brothers donating money to political campaigns..check out the big shots in Solyndra and some of the other "green energy" companies who got huge chunks of our tax monies..and don't forget Pelosi's brother-in-law !
      CEO of GE is Jeff Immelt, Obama's jobs czar..Ge just shipped a whole division from Wisconsin to China..not a peep from BHO..Hmmm
   Boeing wants to build a plant in S Carolina..Obama is going bonkers..guess he would rather Boeing went to China also..
 
   Let's face facts..  We have the "Chicago mob" running the US capitol..

Come on Ironglow, you know TM doesn't give a rat's behind what the left side of the isle does or is doing.  Fabricating slander on the right is only where he is focused.
Buckskin

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 04:50:34 AM »
  Saying the Tea Party  just wants to bomb Iran for kicks, is really a stretch of imagination.  In any TP events I have attended this was never mentioned.  I have seen no signs by the TP saying "bomb Iran"..  Fact is, the Tea Party has been focused primarily on "cleaning our own doorstep" in Washington.
  Main complaints ..less spending, lower taxes, less stupid regulations, less govt interference in private lives and OBEY the constitution.
  ...I can't fathom why those few facts can't penetrate some skulls..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 05:51:00 AM »
  Saying the Tea Party  just wants to bomb Iran for kicks, is really a stretch of imagination.  In any TP events I have attended this was never mentioned.  I have seen no signs by the TP saying "bomb Iran"..  Fact is, the Tea Party has been focused primarily on "cleaning our own doorstep" in Washington.
  Main complaints ..less spending, lower taxes, less stupid regulations, less govt interference in private lives and OBEY the constitution.
  ...I can't fathom why those few facts can't penetrate some skulls..
.
TPer sampling here says Bomb Iran because they are looking for nukes, to save the womens, and they are antisemtic holocaust deniers....sorry, that's the image your project.  Your problem...not mine....eg...look at Bucky's comments...substanceless.
 
Kinslayer wants to deflect into the lefty media myth...."but, but, but look how the 'lefty' media gives Soros a pass,,,etc., etc...."
 
Fact is if the Koch's trading with Iran,,,just like their father trading with the Stalinist commies, is true it shouldn't be ignored,,,just like isreal spying on us and reselling our weapons/secrets to NKorea, China, Pakistan is equally egregious. 
 
Where there's smoke there's fire....and apologists don't carry water...they carry fans.... ::)
 
 
..TM7
.
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   " Fact is IF the Koch's trading with Iran,,,"  ..  Hmmm, STILL dealing in rumors, I see.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  " just like isreal spying on us and reselling our weapons/secrets to NKorea, China, Pakistan is equally egregious".  credible links please..
       Uhhh.. Don't need Israel to do that...  Remember the missle aiming technology going to the Chinese during the Clintoon admin..  perhaps the nuclear giveaways to N korea..trying to quiet their "sabre rattling".  How about the coziness with all liberal admins (present included)..in relations with N korea, the Arab Spring and the munchkin dictator of Venezuela ?
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For you to go on claiming the Yea Party people are "holocaust deniers".. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ..  TM..is that YOU..accusing the Tea Party of being "holocaust deniers" ?  ;D ;D :o :P
 
  .....And what in blue blazes is.... "save the womens" ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 08:12:14 AM »
My local TEA party DOES NOT GET ANY MONEY FROM anyone.  We are just a bunch of local businesses and professional people tired of paying high taxes and having too much regulation.  We just want the government to back off.  TM you really should go to a local TEA party meeting.  Rediculous.  Most locally are conservative Republicans and Libertarians.  Lots of Ron Paul supporters. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 08:53:17 AM »
TM says in reply #14;
   " TPer sampling here says Bomb Iran because they are looking for nukes, to save the womens, and they are antisemtic holocaust deniers....sorry, that's the image your project.  Your problem...not mine....eg...look at Bucky's comments...substanceless"
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  Your words, TM ..beyond that...I see no point in trying to converse with such babble as in your reply #16..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline us920669

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 02:26:11 PM »
I just read the Adams article again and it looks like the brothers are mainly interested in taxes and regulations, which very much stand in the way of job creation.  That strikes me as a lot more important than whether someone muses about "bombing Iran", which is not being seriously discussed by anyone at this time.

Offline us920669

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2011, 05:57:28 AM »
You may be on to something there - only time will tell.  I am sympathetic to businessmen who try to do global trade - they really are a great force for peace.  I do think unions, especially public sector unions, are job killing machines.  It's hard to tell that to someone who got their job through a union, but there is a study somewhere saying that every government job costs 3 real world jobs.  I think that number is a bit high, but even if it's only half that, 1 1/2 jobs killed for every job added, it's not a situation that will get us where we want to be.   

Offline LeftieD

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2011, 07:31:35 AM »
Kock Brothers backs tea Party. Kock Brothers may have down something illegal or immoral. Therefore, the Tea Party is doing something illegal or immoral? Huh? "Warning, warning, danger, Will Rogers. Does not compute! Memory banks failing!." (Arm twirl and robot shuts down at this point) How about selling guns to Mexico? In my own words, I don't know nuthin about that. I wasn't briefed, oh wait, I just didn't read those memos. Umm, let's see what's the meaning of the word "is"?


Maybe if we all just tried to kick all of the bums out and get people that are willing to work for the people and not political parties we'd get somewhere. IMHO. Say good night Gracie! Good night Gracie.
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have. --- Ronald Reagan

Offline ironglow

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2011, 07:49:25 AM »
TM says;
     " Huh, Yeah Ok, let me summarize for some people once again:
 
 "We need to bomb Iran and wipe them off the planet to save them womens, and because they might get nukes, and because they are anit-semites and deny the holocaust, and they want the Palestinians to have a home. We need to overlook the Koch Bros trading with this vile enemy...even if they don't trade in American dollars."
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TM;
That doesn't sound familiar, and it is constructed rather awkwardly..can you provide a link to this quote ?
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Frankly, I don't know why you are so down on the Koch bros..there are plenty more who help both Republican and Democrat causes..  I doubt any of them are without sin, in fact I don't know anyone who is without sin..other than Jesus Himself..
For instance, Al Gore is continually helping Democrat candidates ...and he made his fortune by perpetrating a huge fraud..  exposed & proven, when the East Anglia U... lie filled E-mails came to light.
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  As far as this fable claiming Tea Party is a  captive of these Koch bros.... Anybody who is repeating that story ..is simply repeating a lie !

If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2011, 10:43:43 AM »
I've been to a couple of TP rallies and I haven't figured out how to get some of that money the Koch brothers are supposedly handing out. where's it going ?

btw, I had to go three counties over to find one. I'm surrounded by libs.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2011, 11:14:10 AM »
I've been to a couple of TP rallies and I haven't figured out how to get some of that money the Koch brothers are supposedly handing out. where's it going ?

btw, I had to go three counties over to find one. I'm surrounded by libs.
.
Oh no, $ not going to you....you're suppose to work. The money goes to the steering orgs and committes of the TP that tell you what to think.   I wish I could find that link I had on these guys and how much they receive (and personally keep).
 
..TM7
.
nobody told me what to think.  there was a couple of speeches and question session then refreshments that I paid for, unlike wallstreeters, the people kinda bunched up in different areas and talked about issues. a local tv reporter talked to a few people. when you finished your drink you found a trash can for it and it was a very diverse group of people.  I had never enjoyed talking to a democrat before, however, they never tried to push a liberal agenda and didn't try to shout you down.  we were united on one theme, get government out of our lives.
should be cool enough to go again soon if I can find another one.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2011, 11:37:15 AM »
TM7, have you been to a TEA PARTY meeting. They are the most independent thinkers I have been around and have a better knowledge of who to vote for and what they are doing than anyone/group I know.
They do not belong to a group other than local, or that is the way it is in Florida and I have been with them since they started.
Can a group be hijacked? yes  Has the Tea Party? Not here.
Good men have to do something and group like the Tea Party is a start.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2011, 01:48:25 PM »
I think this hit & run article may be better cetegorized under the Truth, Lies and Conspiracy forum.
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Offline LeftieD

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 05:02:05 PM »
Tea Party was never anti-wall street, that's the wack jobs presently running around in NYC. The Tea Party was and is anti-big government and anti-deficit spending. The Tea Party is made up of average middle of the road TAX PAYING citizens that are sick of free hand outs from politicians pandering votes. Are owners of small businesses that are being driven out of business from more and more laws and rules all designed to kill jobs. Are people that are sick of hearing how "Rights" come from the government and these rights include free everything for anyone. Are anti-open borders and benefits to anyone that can lie, cheat or sneak a way into this country. They are not racists, not terrorists, not asking for anything but to be left alone to make their lives better without government involvement. The Tea Party wasn't and isn't the Republican Party. It is more aligned with the Republican Party only because what's the second choice? SEIU? Democrats? Socialists? Communists? Not.
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have. --- Ronald Reagan

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 05:27:29 PM »
Tea Party was never anti-wall street, that's the wack jobs presently running around in NYC. The Tea Party was and is anti-big government and anti-deficit spending. The Tea Party is made up of average middle of the road TAX PAYING citizens that are sick of free hand outs from politicians pandering votes. Are owners of small businesses that are being driven out of business from more and more laws and rules all designed to kill jobs. Are people that are sick of hearing how "Rights" come from the government and these rights include free everything for anyone. Are anti-open borders and benefits to anyone that can lie, cheat or sneak a way into this country. They are not racists, not terrorists, not asking for anything but to be left alone to make their lives better without government involvement. The Tea Party wasn't and isn't the Republican Party. It is more aligned with the Republican Party only because what's the second choice? SEIU? Democrats? Socialists? Communists? Not.
Very well said.
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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2011, 01:29:23 AM »
Tea Party was never anti-wall street, that's the wack jobs presently running around in NYC. The Tea Party was and is anti-big government and anti-deficit spending. The Tea Party is made up of average middle of the road TAX PAYING citizens that are sick of free hand outs from politicians pandering votes. Are owners of small businesses that are being driven out of business from more and more laws and rules all designed to kill jobs. Are people that are sick of hearing how "Rights" come from the government and these rights include free everything for anyone. Are anti-open borders and benefits to anyone that can lie, cheat or sneak a way into this country. They are not racists, not terrorists, not asking for anything but to be left alone to make their lives better without government involvement. The Tea Party wasn't and isn't the Republican Party. It is more aligned with the Republican Party only because what's the second choice? SEIU? Democrats? Socialists? Communists? Not.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  Very well said and very accurate..
 
  One of the chief differences between the Tea Parties and the OCCUPIERS  is that the Tea Parties are the people who, have long and still are.. paying the tab for govt spending and wilful ignorance of the constitution, while much of the OCCUPIERS are freeloaders and have been for much of their lives...very few knowing what hard work is...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2011, 04:38:39 AM »
Your lost TM. Just lost in the web blog of lies about what the TP is and why people choose to be part of it. Do you beleive in the bail out of corporations and banks? Yes or No?
 
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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California Rifle & Pistol Association
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Long Live the King! #3

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2011, 04:45:00 AM »
Your lost TM. Just lost in the web blog of lies about what the TP is and why people choose to be part of it. Do you beleive in the bail out of corporations and banks? Yes or No?
I doubt if he's been to a rally.  could he really be objective if he went to one ?
probably not.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2011, 05:21:19 AM »
the sherman was applied to microsoft not as any kind of fairness, but democrats being jealous of anyone having that much money.  it was aimed at Bill Gates, not microsoft.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Koch Brothers accused of secretly trading with the Enemy.
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2011, 06:36:56 AM »
TM, I noticed you did not answer the simple yes or no question on corp. bail outs. I know why, because you believe in corp. bail outs for those applications that agree with your political agenda.
 
I don’t believe in any of them or corp. welfare, welfare, and leaches that suck off the system. That’s the difference between the Occupy Wall Street crowd and the TP. The OWS crowd wants a stop to corp. welfare but is in favor of more welfare for the individual leach suckers and private bail outs. That is a fact.

 
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3