Author Topic: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........  (Read 4893 times)

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Offline SwampThing762

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Michael Savage was right.......


Secret US Panel Can Put Americans on 'Kill List'       Wednesday, 05 Oct 2011 07:57 PM
 
      Share:               More . . .    A    A   |      Email Us   |         |      Forward Article             American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior U.S. government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to U.S. officials. There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.
The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.
The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a U.S. citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.
Current and former U.S. officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a U.S. government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.
The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.
In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.
Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.
Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a U.S. citizen without due process.
Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.
The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.
 
LAWYERS CONSULTED
Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.
They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.
The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.
They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.
Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of U.S. military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.
Several officials said that when Awlaki became the first American put on the target list, Obama was not required personally to approve the targeting of a U.S. person. But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals' decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.
A former official said one of the reasons for making senior officials principally responsible for nominating Americans for the target list was to "protect" the president.
U.S. officials confirmed that a second American, Samir Khan, was killed in the drone attack that killed Awlaki. Khan had served as editor of Inspire, a glossy English-language magazine used by AQAP as a propaganda and recruitment vehicle.
But rather than being specifically targeted by drone operators, Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, officials said. Ruppersberger appeared to confirm that, saying Khan's death was "collateral," meaning he was not an intentional target of the drone strike.
When the name of a foreign, rather than American, militant is added to U.S. targeting lists, the decision is made within the U.S. intelligence community and normally does not require approval by high-level NSC officials.
 
'FROM INSPIRATIONAL TO OPERATIONAL'
Officials said Awlaki, whose fierce sermons were widely circulated on English-language militant websites, was targeted because Washington accumulated information his role in AQAP had gone "from inspirational to operational." That meant that instead of just propagandizing in favor of al Qaeda objectives, Awlaki allegedly began to participate directly in plots against American targets.
"Let me underscore, Awlaki is no mere messenger but someone integrally involved in lethal terrorist activities," Daniel Benjamin, top counterterrorism official at the State Department, warned last spring.
The Obama administration has not made public an accounting of the classified evidence that Awlaki was operationally involved in planning terrorist attacks.
But U.S. officials acknowledged that some of the intelligence purporting to show Awlaki's hands-on role in plotting attacks was patchy.
For instance, one plot in which authorities have said Awlaki was involved Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab,  accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underpants.
There is no doubt Abdulmutallab was an admirer or follower of Awlaki, since he admitted that to U.S. investigators. When he appeared in a Detroit courtroom earlier this week for the start of his trial on bomb-plot charges, he proclaimed, "Anwar is alive."
But at the time the White House was considering putting Awlaki on the U.S. target list, intelligence connecting Awlaki specifically to Abdulmutallab and his alleged bomb plot was partial. Officials said at the time the United States had voice intercepts involving a phone known to have been used by Awlaki and someone who they believed, but were not positive, was Abdulmutallab.
Awlaki was also implicated in a case in which a British Airways employee was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a U.S.-bound plane. E-mails retrieved by authorities from the employee's computer showed what an investigator described as " operational contact" between Britain and Yemen.
Authorities believe the contacts were mainly between the U.K.-based suspect and his brother. But there was a strong suspicion Awlaki was at the brother's side when the messages were dispatched. British media reported that in one message, the person on the Yemeni end supposedly said, "Our highest priority is the US ... With the people you have, is it possible to get a package or a person with a package on board a flight heading to the US?"
U.S. officials contrast intelligence suggesting Awlaki's involvement in specific plots with the activities of Adam Gadahn, an American citizen who became a principal English-language propagandist for the core al Qaeda network formerly led by Osama bin Laden.
While Gadahn appeared in angry videos calling for attacks on the United States, officials said he had not been specifically targeted for capture or killing by U.S. forces because he was regarded as a loudmouth not directly involved in plotting attacks.   (Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell; Editing by Warren Strobel and Peter Cooney)

Read more on Newsmax.com: 
Secret US Panel Can Put Americans on 'Kill List'
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Offline NWBear

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2011, 08:26:22 AM »
Isn't this just a continuation of the "Patriot Act" started after 9/11 and re-uped a couple of years ago?

Offline SwampThing762

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 02:55:40 PM »
Bear, This is a whole different ball game.  Now, we have a President who can order a hit just like another famous Chicagoan.......Al Capone.   Scary, yes?

ST762
We learned the true nature of Islam on 11 Sept 2001.

Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 03:53:20 PM »
Killing is not always a bad thing. I am for killing when need be.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 04:06:02 PM »
Killing is not always a bad thing. I am for killing when need be.

  When the government is doing the killing, "when need be" has to be after a judge and jury say it is.
 
 

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 05:58:53 AM »
And when your name makes the list? That is the point here, when the government can decide in secret who should be killed then who is safe? Homeland Security is already compiling lists of who is buying guns, ammo, night vision equipment, MREs and even matches. Secret "hit lists" is a pretty scary development. If you've ranted against Obama here on GBO are you on the list?
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 06:26:26 AM »
Broadly speaking, I don't like this. It will appeal to internet tough guys who fancy theyselves killas, but it's not good.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 06:55:47 AM »
Broadly speaking, I don't like this. It will appeal to internet tough guys who fancy theyselves killas, but it's not good.
I think we should give the killas a little credit.  I actually think they are smart enough to know this is not a good thing, but they are too busy trying to project a false image of themselves that they can't be bothered with honesty.  Some of them try very hard.  Still, I'm sure some of them were Ron Paul supporters, and I wonder if this means they won't vote for him now? 

Offline gypsyman

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 07:55:23 AM »
Anybody tell me how long we have to wait to do something about a person like this? Would it have been wise to take out Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in OK? Do we wait until another plane crash's into a building, or a dirty bomb goes off a a major event? Just wondering. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline lakota

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 07:59:42 AM »
I dont approve of this list. Politicians being what they are this will be a slippery slope arguement. How long will it be before they start putting opponents of their beliefs on the kill list?
 
That being said, I still find little fault in the killing of this al ala whacky character. American citizen or not he was a prominent member of a world wide terrorist organization that has declared war on his "homeland" the United States. If he was an american citizen what was he doing riding in an Al Qaeda convoy in Yemen? Would opponents of this killing feel differently if he were killed while physically bearing arms against US troops or US citizens?
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 08:04:38 AM »
Anybody tell me how long we have to wait to do something about a person like this? Would it have been wise to take out Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in OK? Do we wait until another plane crash's into a building, or a dirty bomb goes off a a major event? Just wondering. gypsyman
I see no reason to wait at all.  Handle it just like McVeigh.  Arrest him, try him, fry him.  If he resists arrest, shoot him.  Just like any other criminal/terrorist/soldier who resists arrest/capture.
 
Change the law to allow self avowed enemies of the state to forfeit their citizenship in absentia. 
 
Have a trial in absentia and if he is convicted issue a death warrant. 
 
Go before a Federal Judge and let him decide if the person should no longer be an American. 
 
There are plenty of ways to handle this.  We don't need to give the President unchecked power to simply assassinate those he declares to be bad.
 
Seems like i recall some saying about those who would give up freedom for safety...

Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 09:13:58 AM »
Even if RP says he is against this I woiuld still vote for him. The only perfect candidate would be Jesus and he aint running. Killing this guy was simple and effective. So what were we supposed to do send the police to get him. Or maybe we coulda got a lawyer parasite to sue him.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 09:40:41 AM »
Killing is not always a bad thing. I am for killing when need be.

  When the government is doing the killing, "when need be" has to be after a judge and jury say it is.
 
 

In WW2 some Americans went to the other side . Some may have been killed in battle no judge no jury .
If you want to be treated like an American citizen you should act like one and not be in the enemy camp ploting aginst Americans.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 10:46:35 AM »
If you want to be treated like an American citizen you should act like one and not be in the enemy camp ploting aginst Americans.

The problem comes with this: some self-styled 'patriots' think folks with diff politics aren't Real Americans; some of the might be willing to kill, if they think God is on their side. Just look at the drivel some post here, and the terms they use to refer to folks that aren't of their approved religion or political persuasion.

Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 11:58:51 AM »
  To those of you you think it's OK. What part(s) of the constitution would you ignore and is that OK?
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Offline lakota

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 12:06:57 PM »
This guy was hanging out with the enemy. probably not a good idea in a time of war. In the future should the millitary avoid engaging enemy forces until it can be verified that there are no american traitors among them? Maybe they could air drop survey cards in for the enemy to fill out and and mail in prior to attacking.
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Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 12:35:18 PM »
  They put him on a kill list, without a trial, knowing he was a US citizen. The drone attack was aimed at him, not the alleged enemies with him. It would be very different if they targeted enemies and he was killed too.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 01:05:14 PM »
Sounds like alot of you folks are willing to let the police come and save you when someone is breaking into your house. When I had to deal with and armed intruder, he did not get a trial by jury.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 01:17:08 PM »
  Where does the constitution say you have no right to defend you home against an armed intruder? You were well within your constitutional rights. The government's assassination without a trial wasn’t.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.   John F. Kennedy

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under" -Ronald Reagan

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Offline dukkillr

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 01:20:36 PM »
  Where does the constitution say you have no right to defend you home against an armed intruder? You were well within your constitutional rights. The government's assassination without a trial wasn’t.
You are right, of course.  They are completely unrelated questions.  But desperate times call for desperate measures, eh?
 
Everyone once in a while you can tell that someone has adopted a position, not because they thought about it and made a reasoned argument, but because they don't like the people on the other side.  I think we've found one of those times...

Offline powderman

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 01:22:40 PM »
They put him on a kill list, without a trial, knowing he was a US citizen
 
 
LOST. Citizen maybe. American?? No way, just another muslim and a self avowed enemy. Good shoot. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2011, 01:26:14 PM »
So to you geniouses, what should have been done with this animal? Maybe a lawyer could sue him or the sheriff could have arrested him? Let's hear all you you constitutional scholars words on how you deal with a rabid animal who is outside the reach of the law? Come now I would like to hear your idealistic world view on this!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline rio grande

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2011, 01:36:16 PM »
Anybody tell me how long we have to wait to do something about a person like this? Would it have been wise to take out Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in OK? Do we wait until another plane crash's into a building, or a dirty bomb goes off a a major event? Just wondering. gypsyman

After reading this, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Don't you realize that  most liberals including those in government and the law enforcement agents who take their orders from them could, and probably do, characterize you (and billy, and all the rest of us too) as  "a person like this"?

Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2011, 01:39:39 PM »
Anybody tell me how long we have to wait to do something about a person like this? Would it have been wise to take out Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in OK? Do we wait until another plane crash's into a building, or a dirty bomb goes off a a major event? Just wondering. gypsyman

After reading this, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Don't you realize that  most liberals including those in government and the law enforcement agents who take their orders from them could, and probably do, characterize you (and billy too) as  "a person like this"?

I don't see an answer on what should have been done with him?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline rio grande

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2011, 02:22:18 PM »
Anybody tell me how long we have to wait to do something about a person like this? Would it have been wise to take out Timothy McVeigh before he blew up the federal building in OK? Do we wait until another plane crash's into a building, or a dirty bomb goes off a a major event? Just wondering. gypsyman

After reading this, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Don't you realize that  most liberals including those in government and the law enforcement agents who take their orders from them could, and probably do, characterize you (and billy too) as  "a person like this"?

I don't see an answer on what should have been done with him?

The original post was about extra-judicial killing.

But since you ask, you tell me - what  exactly did he do?  Do you know? Does any of us know if he did anything other than mouth off or the reasons why he was killed? 
He was accused.  Simply accused.  And his death recommended by a secret committee.   
Did he get an opportunity to hear the charges, and possibly refute them? 

The very real point is this - this sets the idea of Justice and the 5th Amendment on it's head. 
The U.S. President can now order the execution of anyone, including American citizens, including you and me, anywhere, according to his whim.  No explanation or proof of guilt or legal process is needed.  All that's needed is a 'secret committee' and a compliant press.  Oh yeah, and 'sheeple'.

"According to the US government, al-Awlaki was murdered because he “inspired” others to attack the United States through his preaching over the internet. He was also supposedly personally involved in planning the activities of the “underwear bomber.” No evidence of his guilt has ever been released: it’s all secret, along with the list of individuals marked for death by US authorities.
Yet this alleged “terrorist” wasn’t always so notorious: indeed, right after the 9/11 attacks he was summoned to Capitol Hill to lead a prayer vigil for Muslim congressional staffers, and was invited to the Pentagon to lecture on Islam."
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/10/02/assassins-of-liberty-2/

"The first time we take out an American citizen on American soil, on the mere suspicion that he may be a “terrorist,” our legal eagles will point to the al-Awlaki case as justification. That a citizen of this country may be put on a list that marks him for death, without public trial, seals the doom of our old republic."

Offline dukkillr

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2011, 02:37:08 PM »
So to you geniouses, what should have been done with this animal? Maybe a lawyer could sue him or the sheriff could have arrested him? Let's hear all you you constitutional scholars words on how you deal with a rabid animal who is outside the reach of the law? Come now I would like to hear your idealistic world view on this!
I feel like you must have missed post #11?

Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2011, 03:44:49 PM »
So to you geniouses, what should have been done with this animal? Maybe a lawyer could sue him or the sheriff could have arrested him? Let's hear all you you constitutional scholars words on how you deal with a rabid animal who is outside the reach of the law? Come now I would like to hear your idealistic world view on this!
I feel like you must have missed post #11?

And then they could kill him?
 
Seems like this worked very well and ya know what it saved money, the lawyer parasites don't work cheap.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 03:57:29 PM »
Killing is not always a bad thing. I am for killing when need be.

+ 1,

To paraphrase a "Clintism" (Clint Smith);  "Some people just need to be killed (shot)".
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 04:01:07 PM »
Things like this happen much more often that you might know! It is just that BO is a braggart.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: American citizens can be placed on a kill list and Obummer knows........
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2011, 04:22:43 PM »

In WW2 some Americans went to the other side . Some may have been killed in battle no judge no jury .
If you want to be treated like an American citizen you should act like one and not be in the enemy camp ploting aginst Americans.
For the record, if you check you would even find loyal Americans who ended up on the wrong side of the war, in the uniforms of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan.  Right before U.S. entry into WWII was formally declared, some ethnic German-Americans, Italian-Americans, and Japanese-Americans, were visiting relatives in the countries their parents emigrated from.  These German-Americans, Italian-Americans, and Japanese-Americans, who were unable to leave, were drafted into the militaries of those countries, and forced to serve, sometimes in combat against their native country (the U.S.).  As shootall states: "Some may have been killed in battle no judge no jury". It's life, stuff happens! 
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.