fast and furious is heating up....

[myronman3]

  boy, it sure was a long time since i read about it first here on g.b.o..   and now things are heating up....

[Spirithawk]

OK. I'll bite. Fast and Furious? Enlighten me please.

[CannonKrazy]

I sure hope it keeps getting hotter. Seems that Eric Holder might have some explaining to do.

[billy_56081]

OK. I'll bite. Fast and Furious? Enlighten me please.

Spirithawk it was a program where the BATF was letting straw purchaers buy firearms in the states that were transfered to Mexico. It sounds like some of the guns actually made it to Mexico and some were used in the murders of American citacens. What doesn't make sense to me is why these "Mexican cartels" would pay 600 to 1000 dollars for a semi auto AR 15 when they could purchase Chinese full auto AK47s for 100 bucks a peice. Maybe I am an old reb neck hill billly but this crap don't make sense.

[Spirithawk]

Thanks Bro. Dang I knew that, just had a brain fart. I agree that there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. I think those selling could easily have been paid with other than normal currency if you catch my drift. At the least, I believe the sellers as crooked as the buyers.

[billy_56081]

As the story goes, the BATF informed the sellers that thsese straw purchasers were going to buy and to let them. As I said it makes little common sense as full auto AK47s can be had for around 100 bucks. I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.
 

[BUGEYE]

As the story goes, the BATF informed the sellers that thsese straw purchasers were going to buy and to let them. As I said it makes little common sense as full auto AK47s can be had for around 100 bucks. I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.

Bingo, that's exactly what it's about.

[Old Fart]

I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.

Bingo, that's exactly what it's about.

Me three. 

[magooch]

Once again, Erick Holder has been caught lying to Congress and there is more than enough paper to prove it.  But true to form, the Liar in Chief has expressed complete confidence in his homie.  If these guys were Republicans, they'd already be selecting the rope and tree.

[Conan The Librarian]

I'd really like to understand how they thought it would be OK to do this. It's pretty common for police to supply contraband like drugs, which can be used, but in a focused way that doesn't hurt many people. But this is unusual in that they supplied guns to criminals. What did they think they were going to do with the guns? Surely someone must have considered that, with all the gunplay in the Mexican gangs, there would be considerable mayhem.

[Avyctes]

I'd really like to understand how they thought it would be OK to do this.

According to what I've read about this, the official ATF stance was "You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet", by which I assume they meant that some collateral damage was both expected and Ok. 

I believe they also intended to stab the FFLs in the back by turning them in as accomplices to the criminals once the operational 'Go Go Go' was issued, even tho' they borderline forced these FFL dealers to do this dirty work for them. 

Another group asside from Holder and his bunch of SS and the ATF Gestapo that should have their feet to the fire is the FBI for going along with the ATF in this 'operation'.  They were the ones getting these criminal straw buyers around the NICS.

If our congress doesn't make a few omelets themselves out of these dirty, rotten eggs in the Attorney General's office, the BATFE, and the FBI, then it will only prove that our government is corrupt to the very top and needs purged as badly as the MX government does.

[45-70.gov]

I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.

Bingo, that's exactly what it's about.

Me three. 

me  four


it is all a set up to shut down the american gun industry
absolutely nothing else to gain....but blame


and they got caught.........NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE [rom e-man-u-well]
2 can play that game

[Sourdough]

Something else that has came out.  The guns was bought with taxpayer money.  Members of the Cartels living in the US went in to ATF and supossedly informed them of information about the Mexican drug cartels.  He was given a bunch of money by ATF as an informant.  This was American Tax Payer money.  That money was in turn used to make straw purchases of weapons at local gun stores. 

The FFLs at first refused to make the sales, then were contacted by ATF and told to make the sales, or lose their licsence.  So the guns were sold to Mexican Cartel members living in the US.  Guns were dispursed to the border area, both sides.  many people were killed with these guns, including a US DEA agent.  At that point ATF agents spilled the beans.  It's been all over FOX news ever since.  The other news agencies refused to touch it till just recently.  It got so big they could no longer ignore it.

Holder claimed he knew nothing of this operation before Congress, but now evidence in the form of e-mails are showing up that prove otherwise.  Holder either has to admit he lied, or claim incompetence in his job.   

[Conan The Librarian]

Thanks. Looks like a pretty serious mess, going right up to the head of the Justice department. What do you think the odds are that Holder will have to resign or be fired? I'm thinking pretty low percentage probability because this sort of thing is just tolerated. It will take some pretty strong effort by republicans to make this happen.

[powderman]

I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.

Bingo, that's exactly what it's about.

Me three. 

me  four


it is all a set up to shut down the american gun industry
absolutely nothing else to gain....but blame


and they got caught.........NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE [rom e-man-u-well]
2 can play that game

 
ME 4. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

You're 5 Charlie! LOL
 

[OldSchoolRanger]

Something else that has came out.  The guns was bought with taxpayer money.  Members of the Cartels living in the US went in to ATF and supossedly informed them of information about the Mexican drug cartels.  He was given a bunch of money by ATF as an informant.  This was American Tax Payer money.  That money was in turn used to make straw purchases of weapons at local gun stores. 

The FFLs at first refused to make the sales, then were contacted by ATF and told to make the sales, or lose their licsence.  So the guns were sold to Mexican Cartel members living in the US.  Guns were dispursed to the border area, both sides.  many people were killed with these guns, including a US DEA agent.  At that point ATF agents spilled the beans.  It's been all over FOX news ever since.  The other news agencies refused to touch it till just recently.  It got so big they could no longer ignore it.

Holder claimed he knew nothing of this operation before Congress, but now evidence in the form of e-mails are showing up that prove otherwise.  Holder either has to admit he lied, or claim incompetence in his job.

There is also the option of charging Holder with perjury.  He lied to Congress during hearing about the fast & furious program.  There is already talk about this.  It is discussed in the 2nd Amdt forum.
I hope they do charge him.  It will make him and the President realize that the law applies to all.

[Cabin4]

This program was Obama's and Eric Holders attempt at blaming legitimate gun owners and guns shops for guns moving into Mexico. Our government set up an operation to smuggle firearms and blame it on its citizens as a means to push for gun control measures.

 

[myronman3]

i havent read anything i disagree with.   
  one point someone brought up, was why the cartels would spend 1000 on an ar when they could get aks for 100....the simple answer to that is that they didnt pay 1000 for them, we the taxpayer did.  i am sure they bought them very cheap.   
  holder, obama, and every other p.o.s. government employee involved in this need to serve some time in prison.   "just following orders" and "i didnt know about it"  and "full confidence" doesnt cut it. 

[Winter Hawk]

It was the agents working on it that blew the whistle.  They had tried to get it stopped by going through the regular channels, when that didn't work and one of them was killed with one of the guns, they opened about it. 

American Rifleman has had articles about it every month for a half year or more.  The NRA also raised the question of why the cartels would buy sporting guns when they can get full auto weapons cheaper.

-WH-

[yellowtail3]

The FFLs at first refused to make the sales, then were contacted by ATF and told to make the sales, or lose their licsence. 

if this is true, this needs to be followed all the way up, and someone need to go to jail. Not just jail, but jail as expressed by Al Pacino's character in And Justice for All

[Cabin4]

There's already enough facts available to send Holder and a few others to jail. Obama should be impeached if this reaches the WH and hard to beleive it did not. We will see.

[powderman]

There's already enough facts available to send Holder and a few others to jail. Obama should be impeached if this reaches the WH and hard to beleive it did not. We will see.

 
No doubt in my mind that obummer not only knew about it and approved it. He saw it as a way to make gun owners look bad leading to disarming the law abiding citizens  of America, A lifelong dream of the dnc. POWDERMAN. 

[tobster]

Maybe, as Obama's favorite minister( I use that term loosely) Rev. Wright says "Those chickens are coming home to roost". We can only hope.

[lakota]

The ATF is a rogue agency that needs to be shut down and completley abolished.
 
That being said I have a pretty jaded view over "Fast and Furious" and I dont think that anyone is going to do anything about it. The republicans are too afraid of being called "racists" to go after Holder or Obama and they will both skate away from this as happy as can be. If anything maybe a few ATF officers may pay for it with their jobs and jail time.

[Lost Farmboy]

I smell this whole thing as a set up against American gun rights.

Bingo, that's exactly what it's about.

Me three. 

me  four


it is all a set up to shut down the american gun industry
absolutely nothing else to gain....but blame


and they got caught.........NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE [rom e-man-u-well]
2 can play that game

 
ME 4. POWDERMAN. 

Me six