20ga or 12ga?

[evidrine]

What makes the better slug gun? Opinions and reasoning please.

[SHOOTALL]

What makes the better slug gun? Opinions and reasoning please.

A rifled bolt action like the Savage or Browning.
The more ridgid the action the better the accy in most cases . Pumps can do very well if bbl is made solid to reciver.

[spikehorn]

I don't own a 12ga slug gun anymore, only 20ga now and I'm not recoil shy. I have a NEF TrackerII 20ga and my son has a H&R 20ga USH both will clover leaf the shells they like to shoot at 75 yards, and they kill deer just as dead as any of the 12's I had.

[hunt-m-up]

How far are you planning to shoot? Bought my daughter a 20 gauge this year and I really like shooting slugs out of it, never shot a 20 before, then I had to give it back so she could kill her deer. 20 is a lot more fun to shoot from a recoil standpoint, but energy is not there for longer shots. If I was to go back to slug hunting I would probably go with a 12 ga. semi-auto.

[cjrjck]

Most modern 20 Gauge sabot slugs out of a rifled barrel are the ballistic equivalent of a modern muzzleloader using that same or similar sabot bullet. For example, the 260 grain Winchester Partition Gold and Federal Barnes Expander 20 Gauge sabot slugs clock 1900 fps from 2 3/4 inch shells. That is about what they would clock from a muzzleloader. Accuracy is the key variable. Some modern shotguns with rifled barrels can shoot with the best muzzleloaders. I shoot an H&R 20 Gauge Ultimate Slug Hunter and it will group under 2 inches at 100 yards, making it the equivalent of many muzzleloaders and capable of 150 plus yard shots.

[tacklebury]

Up until this year I'd have agreed on 20 ga.  Recently though, it's getting near impossible to get loads you want in 20 ga. around here.  I like it for birdshot, but slugs and buckshot are getting harder and harder to find.  I finally dumped my 20 ga. and jumped into a 3.5" 12 ga. which can handle everything from turkey loads to 1.5" shorty shells.  I am going to get a rifled slug barrel at some point, but with 3.5" magnum 000 buckshot, it's keeping me happy for the things I need right now.    I can buy so many different kinds of ammo off the shelf and for cheaper now, don't think I'll go back to 20 ga.  personally.

[eye shot]

I have been using the 12ga., there's more options for the hand loader. Where I usally hunt there is alot of hunters and the 12 has more authority to keep them down.

[evidrine]

All great replies. I guess what I was looking for was more from a ballistics point of view. Distance, velocity, energy, and accuracy. Which one really holds its ground next to the other. Assuming equally equipped with rifled barrels and same slugs. People are constantly comparing rifle rounds down to the smallest detail.  Never really hear that about shotgun slugs. Its usually what your gun prefers and and just roll with it.

[LanceR]

I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and give some answers based on an assumption.  I assume that if you hunt big game with a shotgun you are referring to white tailed deer and small to medium largish black bears (450# and down).

That is what I'm hunting in shotgun only areas and I use a Savage 220 20 gauge slug rifle.  It is built on a Model 110 rifle frame and it balances and shoots like the bolt action centerfire rifle it is. 

Until two seasons and eight deer ago I hunted with a Savage 210F 12 gauge slug rifle since it was the most accurate thing I could find.  When he 20 gauge version came out I was on it like a bad rash.

Using 3" Federal/Barnes 5/8 oz tipped Expanders it has a roughly 165 yard 6" mean point blank range (MPBR) meaning that the bullet never goes more than 3" above or below the line of sight out to 165 yards.  The bullet will drop another 3" by 200 yards so it will be 6" low at 200.  At 150 yards it has over 1400 FP of energy and it has just a smidgen under 1200 pounds of energy at 200 yards.  The point of impact wants to be set 2.9" high at 100 yards for a scope with medium rings to have the 165 yard MPBR.

There is a distinct lack of drama involved which I like a lot.  Out to 165 yards I put the crosshairs in the middle of the heart/lung area, squeeze the shot off and the deer falls down within a few yards.  Last year I dropped 5 deer with five shots and in the few years (eight deer) I've been hunting with a 20 gauge I've never had a deer go more than 60 yards.  Lets face it.  As has been said already in the thread the tipped MZ Expander is the same bullet as the slug load and most muzzleloading rifles throw them at the same speeds.

From memory the Barnes MZ Expander will fully mushroom down to around 1200 FPS and if you felt that you could deal with the 34-35" drop at 300 yards it would still expand and kill deer just fine.

The Savage 220 slug rifle cranks out 1 to 1/14" groups at 100 yards if the loose nut behind the recoil pad does his bit correctly.

Deer aren't all that hard to kill and the 20 gauge gets it done with roughly 2/3 of the recoil of most 12 gauge loads and does it in a gun that is typically about 3/4 pound lighter.  The Barnes Expander is a stone cold killer on deer and black bear and it's the most accurate slug out of my rifle.  Slug guns are notoriously picky so you'll need to do some range work and let the rifle tell you what it likes.  All sabot slugs will kill deer so don't get hung up on brand names or anything else.  Shoot what you gun likes the most at the longest ranges at which you will be hunting.

In short the 20 gauge weighs less, kicks less and generally shoots flatter with less wind deflection than the 12 gauge.  The 12 gauge slugs are bigger diameter so they loose speed faster downrange.  I will grant that the 12 gauge loads make somewhat bigger holes in critters with similar bullets but the deer won't care much which one they get hit with.  If you put the bullet in the heart/lung area you'll have a quickly dead deer.

Lance

[SHOOTALL]

A 20 with same weight payload at same speed will kick harder than a 12.

[alleyyooper]

Before I went looking for my slug gun I shot my brother in laws 870 12ga with the rifled barrel and canivered scope rail.
I also shot my hunting partners 870 with a hastings slug barrel and the scope rail mounted on the reciver.
It was nicer to shoot that the non 870 barrel 12ga. shot gun.
Then I got the chance to shoot a 870 20ga. with thefactory  rifled barrel and cantilevered scope rail.
So much nicer on the shoulder than the 12ga. models. The fellow who let me shoot his 20ga was useing buckhammers in 2 3/4 ". I asked why when he could use 3" stuff? he said he tried the 3" buck hammers and several other brands in it and he felt they were exploding out of the hull so fast they didn't grab The  rifleing till near the end and he got crappy groups.
I bought my 870 in 20ga. based on the trials I was able to get. I mounted a 2x7 scope on it and sighted it in with 2 3/4 buck hammers.
On Nov 20th 2010 I shot  a nice 8 point at 53 yards quartering away. knocked the tip of the heart off torn the lungs to jelly and he went down with in 5 ' of where he was standing.
I like the recoil of the 20ga. compaired to the 12's.
    Al

[SHOOTALL]

My point was decide the ammo first and your shooting backs that. The load and FPS determine kick . The more weight in the gun the less felt recoil. Had either of the 12 ga guns been fed with reduced power loads it would have kicked alot less. Go self loader and kick feels less.

[Redhawk1]

I have been using a slug gun for way to many years, From Remington 870's & 1100's, Beretta's Extrema Slug gun, H&R sluggers, Savage 210,  to a Mossberg 935 slug gun. All 12 gauge from 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 inch slugs. I have killed a ton of deer with them, using all kinds of different slugs, but mostly Remington copper solids and Lightfields slugs. The 12 gauge is a great deer and bear killer, recoil has always been heavy using slugs, especially the 3 1/2 inch lightfields in my Mossberg. My most accurate 12 gauge slug guns have been the Savage 210 followed by my Remington 1100.  Now the past few years I have used a 20 gauge slug gun on deer just to try them out, and they have worked great on deer, have not shot a bear with one yet. Just bought a Savage 220, 20 gauge to try out this year on deer, the accuracy is great, better then any of the 12 gauge slug guns I have owned. At 100 yards 1 to 1 1/4 inch groups, that I am getting out of my new Savage 220, better then some guys I saw shoot rifles. From the reports I have had, the Savage 20 gauge has been a great deer killer out to almost 200 yards. The other nice thing about the Savage 220, it is just like a rifle, shoulders a lot better then a shotgun with a slug barrel. As for your question which one is better, I guess in my opinion they are both good, dead is dead, but the 12 gauge makes a bigger hole.

[dougk]

You need to look at the 16 ga. 

Doug

[tacklebury]

You need to look at the 16 ga. 

Doug

Got one, but I ain't payin what they want to get ammo for it.  Not when I can get 12 ga. for 1/2 or less the price.  At least here they are about that.

[dougk]

You need to look at the 16 ga. 

Doug

Got one, but I ain't payin what they want to get ammo for it.  Not when I can get 12 ga. for 1/2 or less the price.  At least here they are about that.

Wow...

Midway USA sells 16 ga and 12 ga both for $4.49.

where are you getting your slugs?

Doug

[pastorp]

Even if you do pay twice the price for 16ga slugs, how many do you shoot. In the real world cost of a hunting trip a extra $10.00 for the slugs don't amount to much IMO. Beside I like the 16ga better than a 12. Carries like a 20 & hits like a 12 was the old timers opinion. But somehow the appreciation for a trim lighter gun has been lost it would seem.

Regards,

[tacklebury]

Wasn't speakin purely slugs and I meant locally here.  Cannot find 16 ga. very often and when you do they are like 14 bucks a box...  I can get 100 12 ga. for 21 bucks for birdshot.  I don't use smoothbore for slugs often and usually use my .45 Colt for close in work.    Buckshot, which I do use some,  for the 16 here is non-existent though and I have literally never seen any on the shelf.  8(

[surehuntsalot]

I went to a 20ga 870 with slugs for deer and hogs hunting in the swamps here about 7-8 years ago
they do all I need them to do

[dougk]

Wasn't speakin purely slugs and I meant locally here.  Cannot find 16 ga. very often and when you do they are like 14 bucks a box...  I can get 100 12 ga. for 21 bucks for birdshot.  I don't use smoothbore for slugs often and usually use my .45 Colt for close in work.    Buckshot, which I do use some,  for the 16 here is non-existent though and I have literally never seen any on the shelf.  8(

Haaa

Good point. 

I am fortunate in that Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops and Academy all carry 16ga.  I periodically pick up cases of 7 shot from Bass Pro Shops for close to the same price as 12 ga.  Slugs and buck are about the same price as 12 ga.

Doug

[one shot hunter]

I have carried a 20 gauge slug gun for 35 of my 42 years of deer hunting in Iowa.  The deer I shot didn't know if they were hit with a 20 or a 12 gauge slug.  Most died within a few feet of where I shot them.  I especially like the SST slugs for my 20 gauge.  I use a TC Encore, Ithaca Deerslayer and a M2 Benelli  for most of my deer hunting these days.  I found I carry my light 20 gauge slug guns much more than I shot them.  I do own two 12 gauge slug guns but they are seldom used anymore.

[1sourdough]

 I'm eying up the Savage 220 in 20 ga when I have to use a M-L or shotgun. For right now I'll try to stick to my Knight though. I think I would go with a 20 if I got another slug gun.

[jem44357]

20 ga.. It is just as accurate as the 12, it hurts me less and dead deer tell no tales so no data there on how they feel about it.
 
Jim

[jem44357]

A 20 with same weight payload at same speed will kick harder than a 12.

My 20 Encore seems to kick more with 2-3/4"er's then my 12 with 3"er's, it is a bunch lighter. The felt recoil right on my shoulder seems less but the reaction of the gun seems more violent.
 
Jim

[jem44357]

Sorry my bad! 

[SHOOTALL]

A 20 with same weight payload at same speed will kick harder than a 12.

My 20 Encore seems to kick more with 2-3/4"er's then my 12 with 3"er's, it is a bunch lighter. The felt recoil right on my shoulder seems less but the reaction of the gun seems more violent.
 
Jim

My 20 ga kicks more than my 12 if same type loads are used . Both are 870 pumps. To match a 12 ga payload many 20 ga shells need to be 3 inch loads .