Redhawk1
or did I misunderstand what you all wrote
It would appear you are absolutely correct. Where is here by the way? In any case youve failed to read or understand my previous posts; as previously stated Ive experience with both cartridges plus numerous other big bores including a couple double rifles. Ive also shot a single barrel .600 Nitro. With the 45-70 I have used the cartridge in trapdoors (have 3), Winchester M1886s (old and new), Marlin M1895s, various modern strong single shots and several Siamese Mausers including my own. A further rereading of my posts would reveal Ive been shooting big bores over 30 years. I've owned a M70 .458, a couple of .375s (currently still have a M70) and am looking at a .416 (either a Ruger or a Dakota). If I win the lottery (LOLs but if I do I will) I will have a battery of Searcy double rifles. The first really big animal I killed a very pissed off water buffalo in 65 and had been hunting for 10 years before that. The buffalo was doing a number on my M151 and I killed him with 7.62 NATO. Not exactly a big bore but the cumulative effect was there. I have hunted extensively and have a fairly large library of reference books, many on Africa. Neither I nor GEMSBUCK said we did not think there was a need for big bores. We both stated we have big bores, have experience with them and shoot them. The question was plains game out to 100 yards; there is no need for a DG big bore for plains game.
If you personally cannot handle a big bore round, don't judge others that can. That, Redhawk1, is an assumption on your part and certainly not one made based on the posts. Both GEMSBUCK and I have stated we have large bores and use them effectively. Our statements were in regards to your statement that "Big bore shooters don't make for bad shots and the insinuation that big bore shooters all are good shots. It was YOU who lump(ed) all big bore shooters into one classification not GEMSBUCK and I. Having big bores, using them effectively and watching others shoot them we pointed out the incorrectness of your statements and the erroneous assumptions you draw. As a metaphorical point; one doesnt have to be able to drive a dump truck to know when someone else cant drive one.
Lets point out another erroneous assumption on your part; The only difference between the big bore and small bore is the recoil, all the other preparation is exactly the same. Actually the preparation to shoot a big bore is much more extensive than it is with a small bore. It is because of the recoil that the preparation is different. A shooter, given good marksmanship instruction or background, will shoot a small bore well much quicker than they will shoot a big bore well. Given poor or no marksmanship instruction most shooters will not learn to shoot the big bore well at all and probably will not shoot the small or medium bore that well either. An experienced, trained shooter understands recoil and either knows how to deal with it or will learn how and will shoot both big and small bores well. The untrained or inexperienced shooter who gets a big bore and proceeds to shoot it with no instruction will get the snot knocked out of them, will not learn to shoot it well and if he doesnt give up will shoot it very poorly. If he still takes the big bore hunting he will either miss the game animal entirely or wound the animal. Note in my previous discussions I included the larger magnums though they may be of small or medium bore.
I do not make poor examples of other shooters; they make poor examples of themselves. You
.should reserver your negative comments to those that apply. This is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. Considering some of your remarks concerning myself and others on this thread I would think you should heed your own advice. To further the discussion however, I consider it poor ethics if we excuse poor shooting at game animals whether it is with a small or big bore. I consider it poor advice to recommend big bore cartridges with considerable recoil to probably inexperienced shooters when they are not needed. I consider it good form that the question be answered based the questioners abilities and the questioners needs to effectively kill the game within the parameters of the question. The question should not be answered based on ones own prejudices for a particular cartridge or size of bore. The answer should remain germane to the question.
You may also want to rethink this statement; You don't have to like big bores, and no one says you have to shoot them. But if you do go for big and even dangerous game some PH require them. Redhawk1, I hate to burst your bubble but it is not the PH that requires big bores for DG, it is the law in most African countries. As to other large game in Africa that are not DG, i.e. plains game, we find small and medium bore standard cartridges have been killing such plains game for well over 100 years without problem. Yes big bores kill them, but the big bores are not necessary.
In closing this discussion let me say I realize you are the moderator of the Big Bore forum and obviously like big bores. That is ok and even if you dont realize it I like them to. Big bores are fun and I have even slayed some non DG with them, some large and some pretty small game at that. But big bores for DG are not really necessary for non DG big game hunting. They are specialized tools for a specific type of hunting situation. It does no harm for the comparatively few hunters that can effectively use big bores to use them on non DG. I consider it unethical for a hunter to use a big bore, magnum or any cartridge for that matter if they can not shoot it well. A hunter owes it to the game animal and himself to learn to shoot as well as they can. It is unfortunate that many hunters do not learn how to shoot, do not know their own limitations and are blissfully ignorant of it all. It is also unfortunate that many untrained, unknowledgeable or those who must have the biggest with the mostest attempt to buy skill or make up for their lack of shooting ability with more power, i.e. big bores and magnums. This is actually counter productive. Almost all hunters would be better served with small or medium bores which they can shoot well rather than with a large bore or magnum that they can not shoot well. That goes for here as well as Africa. It is the simple truth, the simple fact. It has nothing to do with my likes or dislikes, what I shoot or dont shoot, where Ive hunted, what Ive hunted for or even what my own hunting ethics are. Perhaps you should learn to understand that.
Larry Gibson
