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Offline GWC

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Help with a plan
« on: October 12, 2011, 04:04:09 PM »
Due to a stroke severly limiting the use of right arm and hand, I've had to chonge my hunting style and equipment. The biggest change was shooting lefty vs my natural righty . Next the bolt action rifles and semi-auto shtguns were passed down to the sons and nephews. This brings me to my master scheme,one frame and three barrels. Hopefully a 1 in 9 twist 223 to rechamber to 22-250 ackley. a 20 ga smooth bore fitted with screw-in chokes and a muzzleloader barrel of some configuration. Would a huntsman barrel or the 45-70 conversion be best/easiest ? Also will all this work off a SB-2 frame ? Please point out any holes or problems with this idea.
 
Thanks, Brute
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 05:11:10 PM »
Brute,
 
H&R has offered combo guns with CF rifle (bottleneck case) and shotgun barrel, so with a proper fitting these would work fine for you.  The huntsman barrel with 209 primer will work as well on a SB2 frame.
 
I have both a 24" 50 cal Huntsman and a 22" 45 cal MZ 45-70 conversion and I prefer the 45 conversion because it is shorter and I like being able to push it a bit w/o worrying about an over pressure situtation.  Also, if you use the Savage 10ML breech plug to convert the 45-70 you can shoot smokeless powder in your MZ.
 
Good luck with your project and shooting lefty. 

BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 05:38:07 PM »
Why not get three different guns?  I know that I have several barrels for one frame, but others feel that, by the time you get new barrels fitted, you are just as well off to get individual guns and not have to change from one configuration to the next.  Just a thought....

-Kees-
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 06:17:18 PM »
BB - "if you use the Savage 10ML breech plug to convert the 45-70 you can shoot smokeless powder in your MZ".

Was this done by you? If you or another member posted about this.  Do you remember about when you posted it? I would love to read more about this.  Thanks.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 06:40:36 PM »
GWC - Like BB said, I would get a combo set (.223/20Ga), but I don't believe they make it, in that combo caliber/Ga..  If they don't or you can't get one, purchase a .223 rifle (SB2 frame) and send it in for a 20 Ga barrel with screw in chokes, and a .50Cal Huntsman muzzle loader barrel. This is the easiest way to get what you want. 
 
 The entire set up will only work with an SB2 frame.
 
 If you want to change the stock (from a Monte Carlo to straight), just ask H&R to also include a stock. 
 
 If you want to spend a little less money, and some extra time hunting for the extra barrels on this site, have fun with the classifieds.
 
 In the interest of fair play I have to warn you.  Your browsing in the classifieds might cost you more that what you originally intended to spend, since you'll be tempted by all the goodies.
 
 Best of luck. 
 
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 07:48:35 PM »
OSR,
 
Posts where from late last year.  I don't remember if it was the H&R Huntsman or H&R CF rifle forum so  you should search both.  I decided to go a different route on my conversion after I decided I didn't want to shoot smokeless.  I have a post or two in the H&R Huntsman/Sidekick forum about my approach.  FWIW, I think the savage breech plug install is a better solution than what I did, but I wanted the option of converting my barrel back to 45-70.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline tom548

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 04:21:59 AM »
I built one of these 45-70 H&R ML. a few years back. I had bought the Savage and wanted shorter and lighter. It is a great shooting rifle. Here are some pic. The Key is the breach Plug. No one should use smokeless in a barrel intended for black powder or subs.
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 06:56:36 AM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on October 12, 2011, 05:11:10 PM

I have both a 24" 50 cal Huntsman and a 22" 45 cal MZ 45-70 conversion and I prefer the 45 conversion because it is shorter and I like being able to push it a bit w/o worrying about an over pressure situtation.  Also, if you use the Savage 10ML breech plug to convert the 45-70 you can shoot smokeless powder in your MZ.
BB
Quote from: tom548 on October 13, 2011, 04:21:59 AM

I built one of these 45-70 H&R ML. a few years back. I had bought the Savage and wanted shorter and lighter. It is a great shooting rifle. Here are some pic. The Key is the breach Plug. No one should use smokeless in a barrel intended for black powder or subs.


BB - Did you use the original Huntsman barrel for your conversion?  Thanks for any info.

tom548 - That's what I thought, that's why I was curious about how BB managed to use smokeless powder in a Huntsman barrel.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline tom548

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 07:12:56 AM »
If you could find out what the barrel was made of  and tested to (PSI) it could be possible but not worth being wrong and loosing  some body parts.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 07:18:57 AM »
OSR,
 
My 45 Cal MZ uses a 22" 45-70 Govt. barrel, not a Huntsman MZ barrel.  On my gun instead of a threaded breech plug I installed a brass plug, which is essentially a plug with the same OD as a fired 45-70 case but has much thicker walls and case head.  Once I was sure it would work for me I then epoxied it into the chamber.  It has an "o" ringed 209 primer pocket.  Approx. 100 shots later with BH209, 70 to 100 grain charges, and the plug is still in place.  In theory, with some heat I can breakdown the epoxy and remove the breech plug if I ever want to return the barrel to 45-70 service.  Also, I removed all the ejector hardware.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline Ol BW

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 07:48:58 AM »
You can get a Handi in 22-250.  Is it a different twist than .223?  Other than that I cannot see a reason to buy a .223 and re-chamber to 22-250. 
 
As for the 45-70 or the Huntsman, why not get both!  ;D
 
Sounds like you may be on the way to Handi-holism. . .
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Offline ibgp3

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 08:08:19 AM »
Most if not all of the 22-250's are 1 in 14"
Some but not all of the .223's are 1 in 9"


That is a big difference in the size of the bullet that can be stabilized.
 
This is a Sierra listing:


Caliber: 22
  • Bullet Diameter: .224"
  • Bullet Weight: 65 Grains
  • Bullet Style: Spitzer Boat Tail


  • Ballistics Information:
    Sectional Density: 0.185
  • Ballistics Coefficient: 0.303


  • For use with 7" to 10" twist barrels.
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2011, 09:10:53 AM »
Quote from: bikerbeans on October 13, 2011, 07:18:57 AM
OSR,
 
My 45 Cal MZ uses a 22" 45-70 Govt. barrel, not a Huntsman MZ barrel.  On my gun instead of a threaded breech plug I installed a brass plug, which is essentially a plug with the same OD as a fired 45-70 case but has much thicker walls and case head.  Once I was sure it would work for me I then epoxied it into the chamber.  It has an "o" ringed 209 primer pocket.  Approx. 100 shots later with BH209, 70 to 100 grain charges, and the plug is still in place.  In theory, with some heat I can breakdown the epoxy and remove the breech plug if I ever want to return the barrel to 45-70 service.  Also, I removed all the ejector hardware.
 
BB
BB - I should have figured that out on my own. :-[   Guess it was a brain vapor lock, aka brain F**t.  Thanks for clearing that up.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2011, 02:22:37 PM »
No worries, BB has a penchant for the odd and arcane.........he's lots of fun to play with!  ;D
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Offline GWC

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2011, 02:59:46 PM »
Also chambering to 22-250 ACKLEY IMPROVED. Regular 22-250 chamber won't clean up in the shoulder and you can't adjust headspace like you can on a bolt gun. 223 works great and the fast twist is a bonus for heavier Barnes' Triple Shocks.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Help with a plan
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2011, 04:21:36 PM »
GWC,
 
I would love to see you take a 1:9 twist, 24" heavy barrel 223 and rechamber to 22-250 AI.  It has been on my todo list but 44, 45 and 410s keep getting in the way. ::)   I think that could be one mean P-dog or whistle pig gun.  Let us know if you make the ackley and post results and pics please.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.
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