Author Topic: Bilingual Ballots??? (Read 1876 times)

Heather · « **on:** October 14, 2011, 10:02:45 AM »

According to Fox news the Federal Government is requiring bilingual ballots in TWENTY FIVE STATES for those who can't speak English. "In the run-up to the 2012 elections, the federal government is ordering that 248 counties and other political jurisdictions provide bilingual ballots to Hispanics and other minorities who speak little or no English." Ok from my understanding only American Citizens can vote. Also from my limited understanding of how to become a naturalized citizen you must learn some basic American History/Government and the ENGLISH language. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the bilingual ballots only seem to necessary for illegals, as all citizens must pass a test?

Heather
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/14/federal-government-orders-bilingual-ballots-in-25-states-ahead-elections/

BBF · « **Reply #1 on:** October 15, 2011, 12:46:22 PM »

You've had bilingual or Spanish only signs on polling places for some time, this is just a natural progression.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2011, 02:08:49 PM »

Obama needs the Mex vote, so he is making sure that illegals cast a ballot.

Welcome to America, now speak English.

ST762

subdjoe · « **Reply #3 on:** October 15, 2011, 02:14:51 PM »

Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish? Why not ballot in Magyar, or Estonian? What about Romanians here, shouldn't ballots be in Romanian? Maybe Tigrinya too.

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 15, 2011, 03:05:33 PM »

Quote from: subdjoe on October 15, 2011, 02:14:51 PM

Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish? Why not ballot in Magyar, or Estonian? What about Romanians here, shouldn't ballots be in Romanian? Maybe Tigrinya too.

SUBJOE. Absolutely NOT. This is America, we speak ENGLISH here. If they don't speak english they should not vote.
HEATHER. I didn't know til the last election that KYs ballots were in spanish too. Thats bull. No reason for anything, especially a BALLOT to be in anything but English. POWDERMAN.

subdjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** October 15, 2011, 03:12:42 PM »

I see I should have use the little smilies to show sarcasm.

powderman · « **Reply #6 on:** October 15, 2011, 03:37:10 PM »

Quote from: subdjoe on October 15, 2011, 03:12:42 PM

I see I should have use the little smilies to show sarcasm.

HEH, coming from you I should have known. Trouble is that the libs here would probably agree with it. Can't discriminate ya know. POWDERMAN.

subdjoe · « **Reply #7 on:** October 15, 2011, 08:21:54 PM »

Quote from: powderman on October 15, 2011, 03:37:10 PM

Quote from: subdjoe on October 15, 2011, 03:12:42 PM
I see I should have use the little smilies to show sarcasm.

HEH, coming from you I should have known. Trouble is that the libs here would probably agree with it. Can't discriminate ya know. POWDERMAN.

They do discriminate by automatically assuming that anyone who doesn't speak English must speak Spanish.

Or is that stereotyping?

Interesting thing in CA:

Quote

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA

SEC. 6. (a) Purpose.
English is the common language of the people of the United States
of America and the State of California. This section is intended to
preserve, protect and strengthen the English language, and not to
supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by this
Constitution.
(b) English as the Official Language of California.
English is the official language of the State of California.
(c) Enforcement.
The Legislature shall enforce this section by appropriate
legislation. The Legislature and officials of the State of
California shall take all steps necessary to insure that the role of
English as the common language of the State of California is
preserved and enhanced. The Legislature shall make no law which
diminishes or ignores the role of English as the common language of
the State of California.
(d) Personal Right of Action and Jurisdiction of Courts.
Any person who is a resident of or doing business in the State of
California shall have standing to sue the State of California to
enforce this section, and the Courts of record of the State of
California shall have jurisdiction to hear cases brought to enforce
this section. The Legislature may provide reasonable and appropriate
limitations on the time and manner of suits brought under this
section.

So in theory, no official business of any type should be conducted in any language but English.

BBF · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2011, 05:15:29 AM »

So it appears (AGAIN) that the Courts in CA ignore existing laws to favor special interest groups. You would think that the GOP would be interested in doing something about this. They are the ones who loose with the illegal vote.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2011, 08:00:10 PM »

Gee, maybe someone should send that info to the RNC. If English is official language of Kalifornia, we can have all the Spanish ballots declared invalid. That should steam Obummer like a boiled shrimp.

ST762

BBF · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2011, 08:02:49 AM »

If the RNC isn't aware of this they are more incompetent that I ever thought they could be.

On the other hand, which Fed Court( the Ninth !! HAR !!) of even the CA supremes would enforce this.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2011, 08:13:31 AM »

I guess this will flame some but it might be better to have ballots that voters can read than ones others tell them how to vote on. There have always been people in this country who either did not speak english or did so poorly. I have worked with several people who could not read ( white natural born Americans) .
It seems every opertunity to make it hard for illegals ( un documented workers

) is used with out regard for the impact on other legal Americans. There is a right way to clean up the mess with illegals and not harm Americans who are legal. That is what voters should demand it.

subdjoe · « **Reply #12 on:** October 17, 2011, 08:54:43 AM »

I get my sample ballot and voter information booklet about a month before the election. I suspect everyone else does too. I fill out my sample ballot at home and take it with me so I can just copy over my picks. If everything is in the same order, and I suspect it is, others could do the same thing.

If they have trouble, have a friend or family member read and translate stuff at home, mark the sample ballot - I suspect that even illiterate people can match the patters of names.

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 17, 2011, 08:13:31 AM

I guess this will flame some but it might be better to have ballots that voters can read than ones others tell them how to vote on. There have always been people in this country who either did not speak english or did so poorly. I have worked with several people who could not read ( white natural born Americans) .
It seems every opertunity to make it hard for illegals ( un documented workers ) is used with out regard for the impact on other legal Americans. There is a right way to clean up the mess with illegals and not harm Americans who are legal. That is what voters should demand it.

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** October 17, 2011, 09:36:24 AM »

If these native Americans can't read, why would a sign/ballot in a foreign language be of any use?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** October 17, 2011, 11:16:45 AM »

No one sends me a sample .

powderman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 17, 2011, 12:08:47 PM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on October 17, 2011, 09:36:24 AM

If these native Americans can't read, why would a sign/ballot in a foreign language be of any use?

Ya beat me to it. POWDERMAN.

subdjoe · « **Reply #16 on:** October 17, 2011, 12:31:15 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 17, 2011, 11:16:45 AM

No one sends me a sample .

Your state doesn't put out a voter information booklet and sample ballots?

powderman · « **Reply #17 on:** October 17, 2011, 01:06:35 PM »

Quote from: subdjoe on October 17, 2011, 12:31:15 PM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 17, 2011, 11:16:45 AM
No one sends me a sample .

Your state doesn't put out a voter information booklet and sample ballots?

Never had it here either, only in the newspapers. POWDERMAN.

subdjoe · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2011, 02:44:53 PM »

Quote from: powderman on October 17, 2011, 01:06:35 PM

Quote from: subdjoe on October 17, 2011, 12:31:15 PM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 17, 2011, 11:16:45 AM
No one sends me a sample .

Your state doesn't put out a voter information booklet and sample ballots?

Odd...I just checked 20 states and all of them have sample ballots and voters information pamphlets.

Never had it here either, only in the newspapers. POWDERMAN.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2011, 03:43:45 PM »

Quote from: subdjoe on October 15, 2011, 02:14:51 PM

Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish?

That's a tough one... maybe it's because Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the US, by a very large margin?

powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2011, 03:58:48 PM »

SUBJOE. If we do they are not mailed out. POWDERMAN.

subdjoe · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:33:55 AM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on October 17, 2011, 03:43:45 PM

Quote from: subdjoe on October 15, 2011, 02:14:51 PM
Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish?

That's a tough one... maybe it's because Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the US, by a very large margin?

And so? Isn't that discrimination against minorities too? And stereotyping?

Savage .250 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:03:17 AM »

Why should this surprise anyone ?

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2011, 08:13:51 AM »

With the deficit the way it is, why would the government spend all that extra money printing bilingual ballots?
All Americans speak English right? Even 1st generation Americans that were born speaking another language, have a working knowledge of English. That's part of the transition to being an American. So if they want to participate in the electoral process, they should vote in their adopted country's language, which is English.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2011, 08:21:04 AM »

Your state doesn't put out a voter information booklet and sample ballots?

They sure don't

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** October 18, 2011, 08:28:00 AM »

So the Native nations who were here first and retain land encircled by America who did not adopt America but was forced to be American at gun point in many cases should speak English because you think so ? It seems some were forced to and their language was out lawed until it was needed in WW2.
This is a case of mixing a need that could help Good American's make good choices vs a problem with illegals. The chineese resturant where I go has one person that can speak good English . Its dumb to mix the two

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #26 on:** October 18, 2011, 08:54:21 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 18, 2011, 08:28:00 AM

So the Native nations who were here first and retain land encircled by America who did not adopt America but was forced to be American at gun point in many cases should speak English because you think so ? It seems some were forced to and their language was out lawed until it was needed in WW2.
This is a case of mixing a need that could help Good American's make good choices vs a problem with illegals. The chineese resturant where I go has one person that can speak good English . Its dumb to mix the two

SHOOTALL - Your facts on history aren't quite correct, Native Americans did not have their language outlawed. Native Americans do in fact speak English, and their native tongue. I for one do not condone what happened to the Native Americans, and am a big supporter of Native American causes. You are aware that Native Americans are still considered sovereign nations, right? What we are discussing is a nation being split into two distinctive linguistics (English & Spanish) groups. That will be a problem in the future, if you look at Canada, and you will see what happens when a nation ends up being bilingual.

It's not dumb to compare the two. Your argument about the Chinese restaurant doesn't hold water. I'm sure that all the naturalized citizens in that restaurant have a working knowledge of English. The ones that aren't citizens, but are legal immigrants can't vote. So what is the problem? The fact that the naturalized citizens might not speak perfect English doesn't stop them from getting voting information from Chinese language newspapers. The same holds true for Spanish speakers. I'm sure Obama translated into Chinese still sounds like "Obama" and most importantly is still spelled O, B, A, M, A, on the ballots. BTW in Spanish, it's also spelled O,B,A,M,A.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #27 on:** October 18, 2011, 09:11:40 AM »

The framers of our Constitution voted on english as our national language.German loosing by one vote. NONE of our federal documents or documents relating to, should be in any other language. Is the Washington monument actually the Tower of Babel?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** October 18, 2011, 09:12:24 AM »

Oldscholdranger , With out being rude your facts are off with regard to the Navajo tribe . Their language was outlawed and not allowed to be taught or spoken. In WW@ it was revived and used as code ( one never broken) . This fact was the base for the movie WIND TALKERS .
I think my post is a good one . Point is we have many here that would benefit from clear communication. Trying to punish those who we have accepted as citizens makes little sense just punish those WHO CAN"T VOTE ANYWAY ! I can think of several people from around America who's family has been here for generations that talk a language that is not pure English but a mix of several languages.
I'm for sending home the illegals but not punishing Americans .
Have you given thought to American holdings like Peurto rico and such ? They vote

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #29 on:** October 18, 2011, 09:55:26 AM »

SHOOTALL - I look on your comments as a friendly discussion, and as such a learning experience. So no, I don't perceive your points as being rude. I do believe you are partially correct when you say, "Their language was outlawed and not allowed to be taught or spoken." This was true according to Wikipedia: "Children were sent away to Indian boarding schools, where they were to learn English and practice Christianity. They were prohibited from using their own languages and religion." That sentence was referring to the boarding schools. But, the language was not banned from being used in public, like the Japanese banned Koreans from speaking Korean, when they controlled Korea prior to WW2.

You misunderstand, me when you say that I support punishing those we have accepted as citizens. The point I'm trying to make is that to allow people to get by in the US by not having to speak English, is to permanently create an underclass of non English speaking Americans. These Americans will without a doubt end up in menial jobs. Our families all came to this country sometime in the past, and we all strived to learn to speak American (English), and eventually we all became part of the American dream. My point is the sooner immigrants learn to speak English the sooner they can participate in this great nation of ours.

There is no shame in retaining your ethnic/national language, American English has hundreds if not thousands of words picked up from other languages, after all we are the great melting pot.

Regarding Puerto Rico, I have no problem with their ballots being bilingual, but I'm sure you are aware that Puerto Rico teaches English as a second language in their school system.

Regarding your comment about Puerto Rico voting. Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico, cannot vote for President, Puerto Ricans living on the mainland (CONUS) can vote for President. The same holds true for the rest of the US territories: American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Island, U.S. Virgin Islands.