Author Topic: Bilingual Ballots???  (Read 1878 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2011, 10:09:12 AM »
I still believe the problems are seperate issues. American's using creative means to address the illegal immigration problem is unacceptable . We all know the problem and it should be forced to the table.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2011, 10:12:13 AM »
Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish
That's a tough one... maybe it's because Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the US, by a very large margin?
And so?  Isn't that discrimination against minorities too?
No more than English only
Quote
[/color] And stereotyping?
Nope, no stereotyping; just fact, that Spanish is the 2nd most common language in the US by a pretty substantial margin
Quote
- there are more Spanish speakers in the United States than there are speakers of Chinese, French, Italian, Hawaiian, and the Native American languages combined. According to the 2009 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by over 35.5 million people aged five or older.[1] There are 45 million Hispanophones who speak Spanish as a first or second language,[2] as well as six million Spanish students,[3] composing the largest national Spanish-speaking community outside of Mexico.

there's your reason for bilingual ballots
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2011, 10:43:59 AM »
YT said:
Quote
Nope, no stereotyping; just fact, that Spanish is the 2nd most common language in the US by a pretty substantial margin
 there are more Spanish s
 peakers in the United States than there are speakers of Chinese, French, Italian, Hawaiian, and the Native American languages combined. According to the 2009 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by over 35.5 million people aged five or older.[1] There are 45 million Hispanophones who speak Spanish as a first or second language,[2] as well as six million Spanish students,[3] composing the largest national Spanish-speaking community outside of Mexico.


there's your reason for bilingual ballots"

even if accurate, that's not a good reason for bilingual ballots;  just some excuse / rationalization. 

note the "second language" part.  They do  / should know enough English to read and understand a ballot.  If not, they should NOT be voting.

From "Suicide of a Superpower":

“Historians will look back in stupor at 20th and 21st century Americans who believed the magnificent republic they inherited would be enriched by bringing in scores of millions from the failed states of the Third World.”

We are trying to create a nation that has never before existed, of all the races, tribes, cultures and creeds of Earth, where all are equal. In this utopian drive for the perfect society of our dreams we are killing the real country we inherited -- the best and greatest country on earth.”

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2011, 10:56:03 AM »
Well lets start with the doctors who write perceptions in Latin ,
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Offline powderman

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2011, 11:22:01 AM »
Quote
Our families all came to this country sometime in the past, and we all strived to learn to speak American (English), and eventually we all became part of the American dream.  My point is the sooner immigrants learn to speak English the sooner they can participate in this great nation of ours.

 
Exactly, and if they cannot understand a ballot printed in ENGLISH they have no business voting on anything in America.
BIG MIKE A. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2011, 11:26:37 AM »
Quote
Our families all came to this country sometime in the past, and we all strived to learn to speak American (English), and eventually we all became part of the American dream.  My point is the sooner immigrants learn to speak English the sooner they can participate in this great nation of ours.

 
Exactly, and if they cannot understand a ballot printed in ENGLISH they have no business voting on anything in America.
BIG MIKE A. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  :o :o

Well that would rule out alot of Americans who speak english.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline powderman

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2011, 11:36:37 AM »
SHOOTALL. I should have said READ, not understand. If it must be explained it should be in ENGLISH. This is America, we speak english here. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2011, 01:28:52 PM »
[
That's a tough one... maybe it's because Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the US, by a very large margin?
Nope, no stereotyping; just fact, that Spanish is the 2nd most common language in the US by a pretty substantial margin
Quote
- there are more Spanish speakers in the United States than there are speakers of Chinese, French, Italian, Hawaiian, and the Native American languages combined. According to the 2009 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by over 35.5 million people aged five or older.[1] There are 45 million Hispanophones who speak Spanish as a first or second language,[2] as well as six million Spanish students,[3] composing the largest national Spanish-speaking community outside of Mexico.

there's your reason for bilingual ballots

YT - I have to admit that your correct regarding the number of Spanish (spoken at home) speakers in the US which the census lists at: 35.5million, but, and that is a big but, this number includes Spanish speakers who also are fluent in English.  I don't know how many that is, but I feel it is a significant number.

       If you look at my post, I stated: "The point I'm trying to make is that to allow people to get by in the US by not having to speak English, is to permanently create an underclass of non English speaking Americans.  These Americans will without a doubt end up in menial jobs." 
I believe my statement is proven by the median income numbers for Hispanics, which rate the lowest among: Whites, Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics.  This holds true for both Hispanic men & women. 
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2011, 01:31:51 PM »
Well lets start with the doctors who write perceptions in Latin ,

SHOOTALL - and all this time, I thought he failed script writing class! ;) ;D ;D
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2011, 02:04:41 PM »
Why is it that "bilingual" automatically means Spanish
That's a tough one... maybe it's because Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the US, by a very large margin?
And so?  Isn't that discrimination against minorities too?
No more than English only


So you are saying that discrimination is OK.
Quote
[/color] And stereotyping?
Nope, no stereotyping; just fact, that Spanish is the 2nd most common language in the US by a pretty substantial margin

No, it is stereotyping that all people who need a ballot in a language other than English speak Spanish. 
 
Quote
- there are more Spanish speakers in the United States than there are speakers of Chinese, French, Italian, Hawaiian, and the Native American languages combined. According to the 2009 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by over 35.5 million people aged five or older.[1] There are 45 million Hispanophones who speak Spanish as a first or second language,[2] as well as six million Spanish students,[3] composing the largest national Spanish-speaking community outside of Mexico.

there's your reason for bilingual ballots

No, that is a PC excuse for having ballots in Spanish. 

And, you are again making the assumption that "bilingual" is the same thing as "Spanish speaker."   
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline crustylicious

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2011, 03:45:15 PM »
Couple of things for your consideration:
"if they cannot understand/read a ballot printed in ENGLISH they have no business voting on anything in America." - That was already attempted, they were called Jim Crow laws and they were found to be illegal.  Not so hard to understand
 
There is no "official" language in the USA.  Blame the founding fathers!
John Adams proposed that English be the official United States language. After debate, the founding fathers declined the proposal on the grounds that it was “incompatible with the spirit of freedom” from which the Constitution was borne
http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/files/rcd/BE021540/Views_on_Bilingualism.pdf
 
You may want to check the actual voting rights act and census data.  http://www.census.gov/rdo/pdf/2011_26293.pdf
In almost half  the counties required to have bilingual ballots it's due to the presence  of Native American speakers.
 
Reading requiremnts for naturalization -
“An understanding of the English language, including an ability to read, write, and speak...simple words and phrases...in ordinary usage in the English language....”  http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d84d6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d84d6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
So it's concievable that our valued new citizen may need help comprehending complex issues and what better way to provide them with the information they need to make an educated decision than  presenting it in a language they can better understand. Shouldn't Americans help Americans?
Thanks for reading. Now back to the xenophobic rants! ;) ;) ;)

 
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2011, 06:23:45 PM »
YT & crusty - Xenophobic? Really? I thought this was a discussion on the pros and cons of bilingual ballots.  Throwing a label on someone doesn't make your argument better.  ::)
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2011, 06:07:46 PM »
YT & crusty - Xenophobic? Really? I thought this was a discussion on the pros and cons of bilingual ballots.  Throwing a label on someone doesn't make your argument better.  ::)

I'm surprised this thread died after that. 


Quote
Quote
Thanks for reading. Now back to the xenophobic rants!

You can be sure they'll be back! 

Well..  I dunno...  Is this one??

My family came over on the Mayflower and we have been proud Americans for over 200 years.  We have fought and died in every war this country has ever fought. Do I think that makes us extra special?  No.  It does not.

But..  we, and folks like us , have a stake in this country and it's future.  We were immigrants.  We chose to assimilate and become "Americans".



Back to the OP;  bilingual anything in this country is wrong and will only contribute to our demise.

As I have already shared:

From "Suicide of a Superpower":

“Historians will look back in stupor at 20th and 21st century Americans who believed the magnificent republic they inherited would be enriched by bringing in scores of millions from the failed states of the Third World.”

We are trying to create a nation that has never before existed, of all the races, tribes, cultures and creeds of Earth, where all are equal. In this utopian drive for the perfect society of our dreams we are killing the real country we inherited -- the best and greatest country on earth.”
 

I agree with Heather,  bilingual ballots in this country are just plain wrong.  I / we should not have to explain that to anybody.



Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2011, 05:18:12 AM »
If you don't understand the language, you don't understand the issue(s), nor the candidates.
 
We speak english here as voted on by our young government.
 
Can't understand english? Stay away from our ballots.
 
This nation has got to maintain its sovereignty.
 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2011, 05:48:24 AM »
Just because you don't speak a language does not mean you don't understand the issues . If that were true then when you by products it would be useless to get the instruction book with several languages printed as only one would understand how to use the product.
I don't think our country has an official language .
 
Sovereignty , Explain , Our country was made up people speaking English , German , Dutch , Spanish , and many others from Western and Eastern Eourpe add the Nations here , the different tribes from Africa and others . Our country has always been made up of people who speak different languages. It has never effected our sovereignty.
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2011, 06:40:19 AM »
Language. Our first Congress voted on the nations language. What shoud it be. English won. German was a close loosing second place. By one vote.
 
Sovereignty. Part of which I view as national identity/culture. If we don't maintain that we loose it. I do not have a problem with other languages being spoken. I remember my time in Italy as a non speaker and know how tough it can be to function daily on the economy as we used to call it. I still maintain the english should be understood by all voting, not left to the interpretations of a translator who may very well influence the decision by being adament in "their" argument. Such as a younger member of a family. Just the way I see it. I would like to know how many other nations there are that have bilingual ballots besides Canada. I'll try to search for that tonight I guess.
 
I understand your points and you present a valid one. ;)

Offline BBF

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2011, 07:35:51 AM »
The instruction to fill out a ballot in Canada are in both official languages, the debates are in both whether the candidate is bilingual or not through a translator and we have sufficient newpapers and media to have an informed public IF the wish to be informed.
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2011, 02:34:16 PM »
According to Fox news the Federal Government is requiring bilingual ballots in TWENTY FIVE STATES for those who can't speak English. "In the run-up to the 2012 elections, the federal government is ordering that 248 counties and other political jurisdictions provide bilingual ballots to Hispanics and other minorities who speak little or no English." Ok from my understanding only American Citizens can vote. Also from my limited understanding of how to become a naturalized citizen you must learn some basic American History/Government and the ENGLISH language. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the bilingual ballots only seem to necessary for illegals, as all citizens must pass a test?


Heather
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/14/federal-government-orders-bilingual-ballots-in-25-states-ahead-elections/



What are the requirements for becoming a naturalized United States citizen?



Generally speaking nine requirements

An applicant for naturalization must be admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident (LPR), commonly referred to as one who possesses green card status. There is only one exception to this requirement: If an applicant has served in the U.S. armed forces during war, that person may be naturalized without first becoming a permanent resident if they were in the United States upon induction or enlistment into the U.S. military.

Continuous residence in the U.S. for at least five years immediately preceding the applicant's filing for naturalization. Continuous residence is not the same thing as physically present here. That is, one must maintain their status as a legal permanent resident but not necessarily be physically inside the borders of the U.S. to accomplish this. For example, if one is overseas for a portion of this period, maintaining an address location and paying one's state and federal taxes may help ensure continuity of residence for this requirement. Also, if overseas for anymore than a few months, it may be advisable to obtain a travel document prior to departing. This may be done on INS Form I-131. Only three years continuous residence are required if the applicant is filing for naturalization based upon marriage.

Actual physical residence (within the state in which the petition is filed) during at least the three months immediately before filing for naturalization is another requirement.

Physical presence within the U.S. for a total of at least one half of the period of required continuous residence. That is, two and a half years for most applicants and one and a half years for spouses of U.S. citizens.

The ability to read, write and speak ordinary English unless they are physically unable to do so due to a disability such as being blind or deaf, or suffer from a developmental disability or mental impairment. Those over 50 years old on the date of filing who have lived here for a total of at least 20 years after admission as a permanent resident and those who are over 55 and have been legal permanent residents for at least 15 years are also exempt from this requirement.
A basic understanding the fundamentals of U.S. history and government.

Good moral character and an affinity for the principles of the U.S. Constitution.

Continuous residence (but not necessarily physical presence) in the United States from the date of filing the naturalization application up to the date of being sworn in as a citizen.

Applicants should be at least 18 years of age at the time of filing. Certain exceptions exist, however, for the children of other permanent residents who are seeking naturalization.


Should we be required to accept a vote from someone who cannot meet these requirements?
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Bilingual Ballots???
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2011, 03:32:18 PM »
My family came over on the Mayflower and we have been proud Americans for over 200 years.  We have fought and died in every war this country has ever fought. Do I think that makes us extra special?  No.  It does not.
Well, it makes your people early arrivals.. near 400 years back.

Quote
But..  we, and folks like us , have a stake in this country and it's future.  We were immigrants.  We chose to assimilate and become "Americans".
Did your forebearers actually assimilate? Yours from the Mayflower... did they learn the language of the Nausets at first encounter beach, when they arrived uninvited? Did they leave behind the customs and language of the land they came from, or did they opt to keep them? I'm going to speculate, it was the later... .





Back to the OP;  bilingual anything in this country is wrong and will only contribute to our demise.

As I have already shared:

From "Suicide of a Superpower":

“Historians will look back in stupor at 20th and 21st century Americans who believed the magnificent republic they inherited would be enriched by bringing in scores of millions from the failed states of the Third World.”

We are trying to create a nation that has never before existed, of all the races, tribes, cultures and creeds of Earth, where all are equal. In this utopian drive for the perfect society of our dreams we are killing the real country we inherited -- the best and greatest country on earth.”
 

I agree with Heather,  bilingual ballots in this country are just plain wrong.  I / we should not have to explain that to anybody.



Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.