Author Topic: WM Moore Co. shotgun  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline grnoah

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WM Moore Co. shotgun
« on: October 14, 2011, 12:38:20 PM »
I just bought a double barrel muzzleloading shotgun by WM Moore Co. London. I have not received it yet but by the pictures it looks in pretty good shape for a 130 year old gun. I hope I didn't just buy an expensive wall hanger. I would like to shoot it but how do I tell if it's safe? It has Laminated steel, not Damascus barrels. The seller says the barrels measure 3/4" inside. Would that be 10 gauge? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
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Offline Rock Home Isle

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 04:32:01 PM »
I would have a competent gunsmith inspect the bores and certify that they are not corroded through and will still sustain the pressures that a heavy load of blackpowder could generate. That would be money well spent. Thoroughly clean the bores and then shine a bright light down the bore and look for dark regions in the bore. If dark areas are present, these would be warning areas to pay close attention too.
 
3/4's of an inch diameter would be .75 calibre, the same as a Brown Bess musket. That would make your new/old shotgun an 11 gauge.
 
Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works would have the wads and cards that you'll need to develope your hunting and target loads. In my 11 gauge I use a  heavy card over the powder, followed by a fibre wad that has been soaked in lube. On top of this goes the shot charge followed by a very thin cardstock or a thin cork wad that goes down over the shot. For this last wad, take a fingernail clipper and nipp the edges in 2 places before use. Those clipps will aloow the trapped air in the bore to escape and not compress. This will make it easier to to ram that last wad down over the shot charge in the bore and keep it from compressing the trapped air and throwing your ram rod out of the bore.
 
With some of my loads I get better patterns with just the heavy card over the charge and the thin cork wad over the shot. You'll need to see how your gun performs with different charges and wad combinations. THis range work will seem to be a tedious exorcise, but it is time well spent.
 
I've used my 11 gauge (Brown Bess Carbine) to take everything from doves, rabbits, squirrels to ducks and geese. You are going to have fun with this gun.  8)
 
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Offline grnoah

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 03:35:56 PM »
Thanks,
I do have a good gunsmith I'll take it to. I would love to take a turkey with this. If not this fall then next spring.
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Offline keith44

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 06:05:15 PM »
have him ring the barrels in front of, it's the first test that should be performed anyway.  Being a double the soldering between the barrels and the wedges (?) can degrade also due to corrosion from other sources.  Even if the barrels fail inspection, all is not lost.  There are many companies who re-solder and re-regulate the barrels.
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Offline grnoah

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 02:33:09 AM »
Finally received my shotgun the other day. I took it to my gunsmith and the first thing he did was the ring test. Passed. He looked the barrels over real close and said he sees no problem with shooting it. He then took the locks apart and found a broaken mainspring in the left lock. So I sent off an email to Dixie and they are going to try to match one up for me. It has all Birmingham proof marks under the barrells. Along with an "11" stamp which I take to mean 11 gauge. Also in very small numbers in between the two barrells is 1/8 once and what I think is 1850 twice. Can anybody tell me what that means?
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Offline keith44

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 04:00:37 AM »
I would guess that the 1850, and 1/8 are some hint at a regulation load, but I find nothing even close.  The next thought is barrels were built in 1850?? (but again I have my doubts)
 
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Offline grnoah

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2012, 08:15:21 AM »
Bringing this one back up to the top for another related question. I put this project on hold for the winter but it's time to get back to it. I had my gunsmith go over the shotgun and she's ready for a test fireing. I'm looking for a recommended powder and shot charge. I bought wads from Dixie and have a bag of #6 shot on the way. As stated earlier I plan on harvesting a Gobbler with it this spring. What would be my effective range?
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Offline ironball

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 11:26:32 AM »
If the gun is not choked, probably around 25 yards. But only tests patterning will tell you for sure.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2012, 01:44:22 PM »
I spent quite a bit of time with a Wm and Moore 11ga. it's not hard to adjust the load to be able to bust blurock at 50 yds.You adjust the pattern by trying different combinations of wads and powder and shot charges. Circle Fly used to make 11 ga wads along with other oddball gauges, I still have almost full boxes for the 14 ga.
You'll need to get a good shotgun powder/shot dipper, it'll be regulated for drams of powder and oz of shot. I'ld start with 12ga minimum loads. #5 plain shot, not the harder magnum shot , is a good all round.
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 06:51:05 AM »
Before ordering wads I would want to know the actual exact bore diameter, 3/4" could mean + or- a sixteenth and wads need to be sized a lot closer than than, say + or - .005". Too large and they'll be very hard to load, too small and they won't serve their intended purpose of sealing powder gasses and containing the load from rolling out of the barrel. The famed gunsmith V.M.Starr is the authority on ML shotguns and his little booklet on "The Muzzleloading Shotgun" is a wealth of general information and is available free of charge online, just Google his name.
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Offline grnoah

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2012, 03:06:43 PM »
Thanks for the info coyotejoe. Great reading. Answered allot of my questions.
Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun... you might meet them both if you show up here not welcome son.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2012, 04:18:08 PM »
I would guess that the 1850, and 1/8 are some hint at a regulation load, but I find nothing even close.  The next thought is barrels were built in 1850?? (but again I have my doubts)
I have a breach load Wm Moore from about 20 years later.
So far I can not find anything on the Moore guns

Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 04:00:10 AM »
Thank you coyotejoe for the link to Mr. Starr his writings are very insightful although all my time has been spent on H&R ml's I seem to be getting a hankerin for a Moore gun. Kurt
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Offline JBlk

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 05:17:30 AM »
The proof marks show in your pictures are identical from the ones shown that are on a breech loader that I own with the name J Manton on it.This shotgun was manfactured in England by an unknown maker.I wonder if it could be from Moores shop.If your shotgun shoots half as well as Starrs Old Betsy, you will have a  fine muzzleloader.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: WM Moore Co. shotgun
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 05:36:28 AM »
The proof marks show in your pictures are identical from the ones shown that are on a breech loader that I own with the name J Manton on it.This shotgun was manfactured in England by an unknown maker.I wonder if it could be from Moores shop.If your shotgun shoots half as well as Starrs Old Betsy, you will have a  fine muzzleloader.
Proof marks are done at a proof house, an independant lab if you will, So firearms built in the same area and the same time frame are going to have the same proofs.