Handi 30-06 reduced recoil recommendations for a recoil shy woman ?

[Default_Required]

So a friend and fellow mechanic found a pretty good deal on a Handi factory 30-06 with a factory fitted 12ga barrel for his wife for hunting season ( shes getting the itch bad ) ... Problem lies with her dear old dad and a joke he played on her with a hot/ heavy loaded 30-06 last year that bruised the snot out of her.. She wasnt interested in it... So our shop foreman bought it then came directly to me and asked me to start working on some lower recoil loads so she would have a rifle to hunt with. He really is a good man and someone I respect, This is also the first rifle he has bought since he got home from Veitnam and was rather excited about the buy. I know this load will also be for his 12 yr old nephew as well.
side note: he is already intrigued by the idea that he can have more barrels fitted to his rifle ( Do I smell an habit forming hehe)
Honestly its been a while since I have had an 06 to play with and my shoulder is still made of steel and a bit of a gluten for punishment. So I'm not sure where to start. And what lvl of recoil is going to suit her best ,30-30 maybe ?
 I have a half box of 165gr hornady btsp loaded over H414 that should be clocking in at mid 2600 fps. I think that might be a good starting point.
 Also noticed that Lee listed a Reloder 7  38.5 gr charge at 2488 fps with a 165gr pill. Should I go this slow ? I think this is 30-30 range speeds isnt it?
Anywho , If some of you have crossed this road before, what are your opinions? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I do not have alot of developement time till gun season is on us. And momma is still at the police academy so that is me and the kiddos all by ourselves until the weekends.. So I wont get many weekend range trips before opening day.
 
 Thanks for any advice ,  DR

[JMcDonald]

Here is some info I found a while ago!
 
http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm
 
I don't have the actual manual but I wrote down a load someone got out of their manual that 20gr of Unique under a 150gr bullet will do about 2000-2100fps with a .30-06. Apparently a max load (60kPSI) is 25gr of Unique for around 2400fps. Of course, take that with a big grain of salt and of course start low and work your way up if you feel the desire to try it. I shot a few 15gr loads today out of my .308 and they were quite mild and should have been doing about 1400-1500fps. Primers were as round as they were when I installed them, too, and the cases hardly expanded at all. In any case, a 150gr bullet at even 2000fps should still do pretty well to 150 or even 200 yards provided you pick a bullet designed for reliable expansion down to the mid-1000fps range (its down to 1600fps by 200 yards). And, naturally, recoil would still be pretty moderate for a .30-cal rifle.

[Default_Required]

JM Much thanks,
 
 I am fresh out of unique unfortunately. and the 06 loads that Hawk ( who I also enjoy reading) are a no go, Neither of these powders grace my selves.
 
.30-06 Springfield - 150 grain Speer SP bullet, 28.0 grains of XMP 5744 powder, CCI 200 primer, Win. case. COL 3.250". MV 2052 fps in 22" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)
 
.30-06 Springfield - 165 grain Speer SP bullet, 25.0 grains of SR 4759 powder, CCI 200 primer, Win. case. COL 3.250". MV 1941 fps in 22" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)
 
 But this is definately a good start ... I know my one source local to me keeps alot of different powders in stock and unique is usually among them . as for that XMP 5744, I have never heard of this powder.
 
 DR

[Bigeasy]

I don't want to post any specific loads here, but there are quite a few loading manuals that show reduced, 30-30 level loads for the 30-06 (150 grn bullet at about 2100 / 2200 fps.)  Combine that with a good recoil pad, and she should be good to go out to any reasonable range.
 
Larry

[JMcDonald]

I honestly bet you could google ".30-06 reduced loads [insert whatever powders you have that you think would be appropriate]" and you'll at least find a lot of stuff that will point you in the right direction. I know there are tons of people shooting these calibers with powders like 2400, H110, and LilGun (the typical Magnum Pistol powders) getting pretty good results. I want to say something like a 150gr bullet @2000-2200fps is pretty common with such powders, and should be significantly easier to shoulder than the same bullet at 2900fps. And again, a 150gr at 2200fps is still easily a 200yd gun with a quality bullet.

[Default_Required]

I don't want to post any specific loads here, but there are quite a few loading manuals that show reduced, 30-30 level loads for the 30-06 (150 grn bullet at about 2100 / 2200 fps.)  Combine that with a good recoil pad, and she should be good to go out to any reasonable range.
 
Larry

 Larry that is what I'm looking for , What powders are they listing for these reduced loads , Or which manual are you locating the listings in .. So far i have checked my Lee 2nd ,Hornady 7th and IMR/Hodgons/Win. online.. Even pulled out my Ram Shot to see if TAC would be of any help lol

[Default_Required]

I honestly bet you could google ".30-06 reduced loads [insert whatever powders you have that you think would be appropriate]" and you'll at least find a lot of stuff that will point you in the right direction. I know there are tons of people shooting these calibers with powders like 2400, H110, and LilGun (the typical Magnum Pistol powders) getting pretty good results. I want to say something like a 150gr bullet @2000-2200fps is pretty common with such powders, and should be significantly easier to shoulder than the same bullet at 2900fps. And again, a 150gr at 2200fps is still easily a 200yd gun with a quality bullet.

 See after a long hard day I need focused minds to help point me a direction that I should have known to check from the word go hahaha . Again I thank you JM

[jeepmann1948]

Check out this Hogdon site for youth loads using H4895

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
Lots of reduced loads for many different chamberings

[thejanitor]

The hodgdon site shows a trailboss load for 150 gr bullets. It would not be for hunting deer but it would get her shooting and being comfortable (trusting) the re-loader and buddies she is shooting with. And just before season (with her knowledge) adjust up to a light hunting load as mentioned above. With the slow easy beginning she should be comfortable trying something with "a little more kick" after getting used to handling a gun again. I would take it slow. Good luck to you and your friends.   thejanitor

[Sourdough]

  http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20Basic%20Manual.pdf
 
Go to page 22 for loads with the 30-06, using Trail Boss.  Light Sub-sonic loads that make good plinking loads or good loads to introduce a a new shooter to a larger rifle.  I use these loads in my Supressed 30-06. 
 
But the most important thing is to get a Youth Stock or cut the Factory stock down to fit her.  If the stock is left long enough to fit a man it will knock her silly.  if the stock fits properly it will just be a big shove.  I take 12 and 13 yr old girls and have them shoot one of my 30-06s with ful loads capable for hunting Moose and Grizzlies.  But the rifles fit them and they are capable of shooting them good.  I cut the original Factory stock off to an 11" pull, a little short for a man, but just right for a "small" woman or 10 to 14 yr old boy.

Odds are who ever pulled the cruel joke on her also gave her a full size stock, doubling the effect.  Women can not shoot a full size stock, they are too long and that causes the gun to kick them bad.  A lot of men are too dumb to understand, "Why if I cut the stock off then nobody else will be able to shoot it", mentality.  Well DUH, is it her gun or not?

[BBF]

     1+ for Sourdough's post re rifle stock fit.
 
That is the very first thing I would do.
 I've had several women that never shot a 22 lr graduate to a full house 308 Win( Rem. Mohawk)  by having a proper fit and using several levels of performance loads 'til they got comfortable.   
 
Secondly if you are going to reduce the MV to 30-30 level I would look at a bullet designed for that speed.

I do know Rem. and at least one other Mfg. does make a Reduced Recoil load in 30-06. Buy a box, let her try it out AFTER the rifle is fitted for her. The result with that ammo will give you an idea where you ought to be.
 
The Reduced Ammo info will give you MV and bullet weight , pull one of them, measure the amount of powder.
With rifle weight and the above 3 values you can go  on-line and get a Recoil Calculator program to calculate free recoil. Adjust any handloads to suit the tolerated recoil level for the shooter.
 
 

[Deerhunter#1]

grab some 125 nos bt or sierra 125 pro hunter or some hornady 130 sp and some h4895. These combos should work well and can even do reduced loads with the h4895.

[buckeyehunter2]

Deerhunter #1...I agree totally.   I was recovering from a shoulder injury last year prior to deer season.   My 30-06 shoots 165 grain Nosler's the best, but the recoil is brutal.   I decided to develop a 125 grain load so that I wouldn't further damage my shoulder.   As it turned out the 125 grain Sierra was as accurate as the 165 Nosler bullet.   Long story short I shot a medium body sized whitletail buck at 145 yards last year.   It knocked the deer off it's feet.   Only my shoulder knew the difference....

[wtroger]

Plus one on 125 loads that what I dd for my daughter and son when they started hunting and it is what my grandson shoots today. The only difference i mine was a 308 W. The white tails here don't know the difference between 125 or 165

[Deerhunter#1]

I am shooting the 130new hornady out of my 30-30. I just got a 308 and am going to try the same bullet. My shots in pa are under 20o yards.  The 08 I am going to push it about 2600 second. The 30-30same is about 2300. No recoil at all and plenty of power

[goofyoldfart]

I, for one, don't know about girlie-men, BUT with my 'Scitous brothers in the shoulder, I am very sensitive to recoil. So this thread is greatly appreciated, Default_required!!!! got some pretty good ideas here. Thanks to all. God Bless to all.


                           Goofyoldfart

[Ol BW]

There is some info on that very thing in the latest Handloader magazine.
 
I worked up a load to try to mimic Managed-Recoil loads from Remington, using Reloder 7 and 125 gr. Sierra bullets.  I cant remember what level they are supposed to be. (maybe 30-30?)  I used info from a Nosler book I believe, and it was listed at the same speed as the Managed-Recoil is listed in the Remington catalog. (around 2700 fps I believe) 
 
+1 on fitting the gun to the lady, and to staring out ultra low and slowly working up.
 
Remember many times it is how a lady feels about a gun and caliber, so you might be facing an uphill battle without some way of getting her to try these light loads.

[Default_Required]

I, for one, don't know about girlie-men, BUT with my 'Scitous brothers in the shoulder, I am very sensitive to recoil. So this thread is greatly appreciated, Default_required!!!! got some pretty good ideas here. Thanks to all. God Bless to all.


                           Goofyoldfart

Glad this is helping out others in our Handi club
 
You guys are the greatest , you all know that right ?
 
 I actually used the Speer Hot-core 125gr over the low listing of  R7 loading for around 2700fps , it did real well grouping at 50 yards and the recoil was pretty subdued.. I also loaded up some low listing of R7 with a 165gr ( have alot of 165gr rounds no 150s though ) Rem. psp core-lokt at 2488+/- it had a little more bump then the 125gr but not bad , Took some factory 150gr Rem. core-lokt for refference since its been a while with the -06 and never the Handi -06.
 The friends wife went out  saturday and shot his fathers 30-30 and that recoil was fine with her, so I'm thinking that success has been achieved with these loading.
 
 I appreciate the foward thinking on the stock OAL , but that isnt a real concern since she is not a petite woman.. Though I do agree completely about the length of pull , And have a youth stock in the wings should my acessment be off.  Think this will work out well for my foreman his small nephew and our friends wife this season.
 
 Thank you again guys    DR
 

[tdoor]

Best recommendation I can give you is to trade off a recoil shy woman for one that is not shy to shoot full power loads

[JMcDonald]

Best recommendation I can give you is to trade off a recoil shy woman for one that is not shy to shoot full power loads

Well that's a terrible recommendation so you might think a little longer .

[tdoor]

Or one that dosn't hunt

[tacklebury]

Pretty decent review of a few different ones from Chuck Hawks: http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm
 
***edit***  Also, I really like RL7 for reduced loads, because the sensed pressure to me is more push than kick. 
 
Dohh sorry didn't see it was already posted above.  8(

[Spanky]

Maybe you could try some cast bullet loads in it. There's alot of cast info on the web for the 30-06.
 
 
 
Spanky

[BBF]

Spanky:
I've been looking at cast bullets in those smaller calibers and unless this is a soft "pill" that will expand to some degree I'm just not comfortable shooting these small meplat bullets into big game.

[Spanky]

Spanky:
I've been looking at cast bullets in those smaller calibers and unless this is a soft "pill" that will expand to some degree I'm just not comfortable shooting these small meplat bullets into big game.

 
I agree with you. For a .30 caliber I'd go with a soft pure lead hollowpoint for maximum expansion.
 
 
 
Spanky

[BBF]

Unless there is another option for preventing leading of the barrel it would mean paper patching I presume.
That is a can of worms I'm not ready to open.

[scratchmark]

try using sierra or comparable match hpbt bullets. they there not designed for hunting due to a THIN jacket, yet ive been using the 150 grgr since the mid 80's and every deer drops in its tracks, oops, i had one run 30 feet once. they are brutal and with a thin jacket and light load, they should perform well.

[tobster]

"Best recommendation I can give you is to trade off a recoil shy woman for one that is not shy to shoot full power loads"

    A lot of times a woman that can shoot full power loads can also furnish shade in the summer and heat in the winter. Default Required, you may think you're being a friend, but you are actually nothing more that an enabler. As such, you might as well try Trail Boss.  Good luck.

[44 Man]

Just my 2 cts, but as to your wife, if she is very recoil shy, she should not be behind a 30-06.  I'm not recoil shy but I do not enjoy shooting a 30-06 at the bench.  We know in the field, you don't even notice recoil, but if she percives it hurts at the bench, she won't WANT to go hunting with it.  Just pick her up a 30-30 or 243 (I find .243's all the time in the used gun rack).  I enjoy shooting my 30-30 with 125 gr handloads.  Don't push a woman into a caliber she is afraid of because she will not enoy it and will stop shooting period, and that would be a shame.  She can have lots of enjoyment shooting if it is fun,  So get a gun she enjoys and she will work up from there at her own pace.  Even if she never goes beyond a .243, that caliber is capabile of doing much more than most people realize.
For your friend, I think you are on the right track.  Maybe dropping down to 150 gr bullets may help even more.  Less powder means less recoil also, so less of a faster burning powder will also help reduce the recoil.  Hope he enjoys getting back into hunting.   44 Man

[JMcDonald]

Just pick her up a 30-30 or 243 (I find .243's all the time in the used gun rack).  I enjoy shooting my 30-30 with 125 gr handloads. 

I absolutely agree about not starting someone off with too much gun, because it will potentially make a "stay at home" wife out of an "I'd love to go to the range with you!" wife.

But, why buy another rifle (especially a .30-30) when he can duplicate its ballistics with the .30-06 he already has using reduced loads? It would be a lot cheaper to just pick up a milder powder than it would be to invest several hundred into a rifle, scope, etc.

Hell, even a moderate Unique load will give you ballistics adequate for deer within 200 yards. A while back I remember finding a snapshot of an older manual showing that a .30-06 with a 150gr bullet over 20gr of Unique delivers somewhere between 2000-2100fps at relatively moderate pressures. I remember 25gr of powder under the same bullet would give almost 2500fps at max pressure (nearing 60k PSI, I believe). A 150gr bullet with a MV of 2000fps doesn't drop below 1600fps until after 200 yards, so a quality hunting bullet designed to expand at these lower velocities would get the job done within .30-30 ranges.