Author Topic: Handi 30-06 reduced recoil recommendations for a recoil shy woman ? (Read 3734 times)

Bill3006 · « **Reply #30 on:** November 04, 2011, 04:31:24 AM »

The advantage of the reduced loads is that novice hunters can practice with their gun and not become recoil sensitive, yet when they switch to the full loads for hunting they can take advantage of the additional margin of error that larger caliber full loads provide that novice hunters (and the rest of us) sometimes need so we don't have to have perfect shot placement or perfect shooting conditions. Some of the reduced loads using the 0.308 caliber 100 gr Speer Plinker yield very low recoil, about like a 0.223 or so. Velocity is in the 1500 to 2000 fps range. When my wife and son were starting hunting, they practiced with the reduced loads, and switched to full power 180 gr 30-06 loads for hunting. As others have stated, they never noticed the recoil when hunting. The disadvantage of the reduced loads is that they shot to a different point of aim (several inches) than where the rifles were sighted in for the full loads, and they weren't as accurate. When practicing, they focussed on minimizing the group size, rather than putting the bullets exactly where they were aiming. It works, neither one is recoil sensitive.

BBF · « **Reply #31 on:** November 04, 2011, 06:29:21 AM »

The POI is the big problem with switching from one type of ammo/load to another. If you are the one to zero in the rifle with any load, no problem, if you do it for someone else or expect the recoil sensitive person to do it, it is another thing again.

On occasion you get lucky and have a firearm or two loads that group close enough together to need an adjustment.

IMO Use whatever ammo you pratice with should be the one you hunt with. I think the Factory Reduced Recoil ammo is good for deer sized animals up to 200 yards.That should cover most situations.

JMcDonald · « **Reply #32 on:** November 04, 2011, 02:33:46 PM »

I agree about getting used to your hunting ammo, though even still it isn't too much work to remember to click the elevation some standard amount of clicks up or down when changing between the two loads. However, still, a quality 150gr bullet at even 2000fps is good enough for medium-sized game (say, 150lb deer), so if you load and practice at that level that should be a great compromise.

I shot some of my .308 Unique loads today. The most accurate ones seemed to be the 15 and 17.5gr loads (loaded in 2.5gr incriments), but 20gr seems to be nearing the max for a 150gr bullet. Accuracy was a little worse with these loads, and extraction became stiffer. Primers were relatively flat, but not any more so than factory Federal loads I've shot. I need to get them through a Chrono, but I'd imagine they were at about 2000fps out of my short barrel, given the .30-06 with more case capacity (so less pressure) does 2000-2100fps with the same charge.

44 Man · « **Reply #33 on:** November 05, 2011, 02:58:29 AM »

Ok, lets get down to some specifics. If you load Nosler BT 125's to about 2200/2400 fps, they will do the job. The BT's are good from 3200 fps clear down to 1700 fps according to Nosler. My old 30-30 (same rate of twist as the 30-06) will shoot 125's into less than an inch. This way you could load up ammo for her at a reduced velocity and still use the same load for hunting. 44 Man

parkergunshop · « **Reply #34 on:** November 05, 2011, 03:09:28 AM »

Less bullet weight is the best option to reduce recoil along with a slight reduction in the powder charge.
My deer load with the 130 grain Sierra, 5X grains of H380 for a muzzle velocity of 2821 FPS groups into .532 inch at 100 yards. It has killed deer out to 300 yards with no problem. This is out of a 19 inch barrel.
This is the same powder charge used with the 150 grain bullet, but recoil is considerably less.

JMcDonald · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2011, 01:04:31 PM »

^^Two excellent pieces of advice!

BBF · « **Reply #36 on:** November 06, 2011, 07:24:39 AM »

As an afterthought with this whole reduced recoil business it dawned on me there is another way to look at this.

In your particular situation it involves an adult whose physique and tolerance of felt recoil will probably never change. So why not pick a cartridge that will serve her well with normal loads?

If the person was a youngster and has a good chance of growing into a 30-06 as an example later on in life, the reduced recoil scene has merit.

demented · « **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2011, 08:55:30 PM »

If you're gonna drop below 2400 fps, try a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. I've used this bullet started at 2300 in my 30-30, have taken two deer this year, one at 165 yards, the other at 70 yards, the bullet in both instances did a very good job.

JMcDonald · « **Reply #38 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:08:55 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on November 06, 2011, 07:24:39 AM

In your particular situation it involves an adult whose physique and tolerance of felt recoil will probably never change. So why not pick a cartridge that will serve her well with normal loads?

I definitely agree that I don't expect her (or a lot of poeple, for that matter) to ever enjoy shooting real .30-06 loads. But, in this case, there are plenty of advantages to sticking with .30-06. He already has the gun, scope, dies, and supply of cases for .30-06. Replicating that setup in another caliber would be like $500 on the low end. Plus, now she gets to shoot the same amount but with greater case life, less powder usage, and / or reduced muzzle blast over using a smaller cartridge and pushing it closer to its limits. The only negative about sharing two loads in the same gun is the required optics adjustment, but the solution is as simple as remembering how many clicks it takes to change the zero between the two: "[Here honey, you try a few of yours' *raises elevation by 6 clicks and has it to her*]."
Now, if he didn't already have the .30-06, and the gun was really for her, it would indeed be silly to buy one and then only be able to shoot reduced loads. If he were buying something new, then definitely a .243 would probably be ideal. And of course, if he were looking for an excuse to buy another rifle, this would also fit the bill

. But, there is absolutely nothing preventing him from making it work with the setup he has.

BBF · « **Reply #39 on:** November 07, 2011, 04:34:13 AM »

As I mentioned somewhere else, a two scope for one rifle setup would also work provided the stock lenght isn't a problem for the smaller shooter.

JMcDonald · « **Reply #40 on:** November 07, 2011, 05:00:33 AM »

Hmm. Do you think swapping scopes would be more precise than adjusting elevation by a fixed amount each time?

Great point about stock fit, though. I love my adjustable stock for this reason. I can adjust it for my 6'2" wingspan, and then my 5'3 ("and a half," she says) can easily fit it for herself. Though, with PG stocks I tend to prefer a ~12.5" LOP anyways, so a short fixed stock isn't a big deal for me.

BBF · « **Reply #41 on:** November 07, 2011, 05:05:04 AM »

Yes, if you have a good quality bases and rings I'd prefer it over fiddling with the scope and you won't forget who's setting you got into the scope

.

Even eye relief can be fitted to the individual.

JMcDonald · « **Reply #42 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:53:27 AM »

Even really precise QD rings will still likely be off by at least a half MOA. Most decent scopes will have far more consistency in their adjustments than that. And I wouldn't call turning the elevation turret a fixed amount "fiddling," nor would I expect two shooters to get confused as to who was the last to shoot it

. If nothing else, marking the turrents would completely elimiate that problem.
Eye relief can indeed be tailored to the shooter, but it un-tuned eye relief has never been a hindrance for me, at least as far as practical accuracy goes.

Default_Required · « **Reply #43 on:** November 07, 2011, 03:15:38 PM »

Ok hahahaha let me see if I can rapid fire to all the comments

Not my wife so trading off isnt in the cards ...

Recoil shy due to her fathers messed up joke with a full on 180gr 06' load that bruised the snot out of her , Not my doing , just helping out where I can to put one more Handi in the woods this year

44 mag, 357 max, 30-30 , 243, 7-08 proper bullet selected 22-250 or 223 are all good options , but not in this economy for mechanics working peice-work pay checks.. So under limited options ( meaning no other options) I was trying to tame the roar of the mighty 06' to a puuurrrrrrrr to get my friends wife in the wo0ds

Lead bo0lits isnt an option soft or hard cast , I do not have any and am not going to order any for this project, Way to much copper coated candy in my gun room to warrant buying lead...

I had considered Trail Boss with a 155gr A-max or 168gr A-max, due to lower velocites mated with the thinner jacket and poly forcing cones of these offerings , But I have yet to experiment with this due to having no Trail Boss on hand.

And neither of the loads worked up will be below 2400 fps , Actually the 125gr Hot Cor should be boogey'n around 2700 fps give or take.

Think that covers most of y'all

DR

BBF · « **Reply #44 on:** November 08, 2011, 05:08:02 AM »

OK. So did we help ? $:-\$

Default_Required · « **Reply #45 on:** November 08, 2011, 11:59:13 AM »

Well Of Course Scatter.

I always appreciate the wide spread of ideas, suggestions and experiences our community brings to the table.

Quote from: 44 Man on November 05, 2011, 02:58:29 AM

Ok, lets get down to some specifics. If you load Nosler BT 125's to about 2200/2400 fps, they will do the job. The BT's are good from 3200 fps clear down to 1700 fps according to Nosler. My old 30-30 (same rate of twist as the 30-06) will shoot 125's into less than an inch. This way you could load up ammo for her at a reduced velocity and still use the same load for hunting. 44 Man

Quote from: parkergunshop on November 05, 2011, 03:09:28 AM

Less bullet weight is the best option to reduce recoil along with a slight reduction in the powder charge.
My deer load with the 130 grain Sierra, 5X grains of H380 for a muzzle velocity of 2821 FPS groups into .532 inch at 100 yards. It has killed deer out to 300 yards with no problem. This is out of a 19 inch barrel.
This is the same powder charge used with the 150 grain bullet, but recoil is considerably less.

These thoughts are in tune with mine on this... My first buck fell to a 7.62x39 125gr and it wasnt moving nearly like a 125 from a reduced 06..... So I'm thinking this will serve for sighting, practice and hunting... This load ended up being about 3"-3.5" higher then the 165gr reduced loads at 100

DR

Sourdough · « **Reply #46 on:** November 09, 2011, 08:28:05 AM »

If the stock fits the 30-06 is a pussy cat in the recoil department. I put 12 to 14 year old girls behind them all the time, shooting full loads.

Bill3006 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:07:04 AM »

Sourdough, would those be Alaskan girls or the more frail variety from the lower 48?

JMcDonald · « **Reply #48 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:25:34 AM »

Haha. You and your girls are probably among a minority in that one

.

BBF · « **Reply #49 on:** November 09, 2011, 05:02:49 PM »

Considering you have to wear multi layer clothing most 0f the time in Alaska I can see why the girls can handle the recoil.

ratdog · « **Reply #50 on:** November 09, 2011, 11:54:51 PM »

try some trail boss loads my wife shoots my 45-70 no problem and she is a wimp. or like the guys say load her up some 125 grain spitzers less recoil than a 30-30 i shoot a lot of the 125's and they are cheaper.i shoot them in my 30-30 handy too.

Sourdough · « **Reply #51 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:27:51 AM »

It's all about proper stock fit, and learning how to properly hold the gun. Seen many grown men cry over the 06, when they had a wimpy hold on the gun, with a limp left wrist. This puts the stock loosly against the shoulder, and it kicks the snot out of them. Those girls roll it into the shoulder pocket, hold it tight against the shoulder with the left hand, and get a big shove, not a kick. Seen my 98 lb 4'11" wife have to take two steps back to keep from being knocked over by that shove, but she was ready for another shot. While the shove was big, it did not hurt.

BBF · « **Reply #52 on:** November 10, 2011, 06:46:48 PM »

Last but not least are muzzle brakes or there is that mercury recoil compensator that is used in shotguns which will work in a rifle as well.

LanceR · « **Reply #53 on:** November 11, 2011, 01:37:26 AM »

I'm coming late to this thread since I don't own a Hadi and found it while searching for something else. I realize that you've got to work with the cartridge and shooter at hand so...

There is a newer article over on chuckhawks.com than the one already listed.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_H4895.htm

H4895 powder has been tested by Hodgdon down to 60% of the maximum powder charge for any cartridge for which they list H4895. At 60% of the max powder charge it will still give completely uniform ignition and velocities while keeping pressures safe. Please note that reducing the powder charge in some loads can actually increase the pressure so I would not recommend using any reduced loads that the powder manufacture does not publish.

Hodgdon also lists "Youth Loads" that are designed to cleanly take deer at 200 yards. The listed load for 30-06 uses a 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (2615 FPS) and has less than 60% of the recoil of a full power load using the same bullet (10.2# versus 17.1#) in an eight pound rifle. That load is still not down to 60% of the max charge.

Keeping the points of impact close together with two different loads can be pretty easy out to around 200 yards. The reduced load above and a 165 grain Ballistic Tip at 2750 FPS will be within less than an inch of each other out to over 200 yards if both are zeroed 2.7 to 2.8" high at 100 yards. At 250 yards they are still within 1.5" and the "reduced load" is still rocking 1150 foot pounds of energy-plenty enough for any deer.

If you crank the 165 grain bullet up to about 2900 FPS and use the 2.8" zero height at 100 yards the bullets will be within 1" of each other to 200 yards but the 165 will be 2.5" higher than the 125 at 250 yards.

Lastly, if you dropped the charge to 32.2 grains of H4895 (60% of the 52.7 grain max charge) you would still have a MV of around 2330 FPS. You'd have 1900 FPS at 200 yards with right at 1000 pounds of energy at that distance. Again, that'll work for any deer. Even in a 7 pound rifle that produces only 9 pounds of recoil. For comparison a 95 grain .243 load at 3000 FPS has 10 pound recoil in the same rifle.

In either case the 30-06 reduced 125 grain 30-06 loads get you down to .243 recoil levels while still being very good deer killers.

Hope this helps.

Lance