Author Topic: Most Powerful 45-70 Loads (Read 13452 times)

HuntinandBanjos94 · « **on:** October 15, 2011, 06:46:52 PM »

I am looking for the most powerful 45-70 loads that you guys use. I am talking about the one load you would go to if you needed max energy. Any bullet weight but prefer 400 gr or over.

P.S. My rifle is a buffalo classic.

StrawHat · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2011, 03:21:20 AM »

Personally, all I load is black powder and find it does everything I need it to do. If I need more, I carry my 50-70.

If you want some heavy loads, I suggest you find a copy of Ken Waters, "Pet Loads" article for the 45-70. He listed some loads that destroyed the brass after two firings.

Nobade · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2011, 04:26:20 AM »

Your rifle is not strong enough to contain the most powerful loads I use in my Ruger #1. But if you must, use the RCBS 405gr. bullet and keep adding RE7 or IMR 4198 powder until either you can't stand the recoil anymore or the action pops open when you fire it. Then back off a touch.

Seriously, what you are asking sort of doesn't make sense. Loaded to 1200 fps with black powder, that bullet will shoot clear through pretty much anything on this continent and doesn't hurt you or your rifle. If you want a flatter trajectory, use a different cartridge. If you are just doing it to see what happens, that is another matter and go ahead and have fun. After you see what she'll do, then back off to a reasonable speed and enjoy shooting your rifle for what it is designed for.

Oh, a case full (to the base of the seated bullet) of IMR 3031, 4064, or 4895 will not overpressure your rifle and will likely give you all the excitement you care to stand. About 1800 fps or so.

tacklebury · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2011, 04:37:00 PM »

Heaviest I've gone is a book load of RL 7 ie. 52 gr. under a 300 gr. HP Hornady. Kicked like the dickens in my classic and wasn't as accurate as 50 gr. or 47 gr. Both of the lower loads grouped under 1". I ended up going with the 47gr. because even that load blew a hole bigger than my fist through the first deer it hit. I am currently using a 48 gr. load of RL7 under a 350 gr. FP to try to reduce and mitigate some of the damage on light skinned deer. hehe Also, the 350 will work on anything else and holds together for penetration on bear etc.

HuntinandBanjos94 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:34:47 PM »

I know its not necessary at all but I just want to have fun and see what my 45-70 can do. I was looking at this load:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=91&BulletWeight=455&LoadID=8710

I don't know for sure but 2000 fps just doesn't seem right. any opinions?

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2011, 12:57:33 PM »

** sorry was on wrong post**

eod20 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »

tackleberry - what brand 350 gr bullet are you using? berry's?

tacklebury · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2011, 03:54:38 PM »

Nope, the Hornady 350 FP:

Nobade · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:35:17 PM »

Quote from: HuntinandBanjos94 on October 16, 2011, 07:34:47 PM

I know its not necessary at all but I just want to have fun and see what my 45-70 can do. I was looking at this load:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=91&BulletWeight=455&LoadID=8710

I don't know for sure but 2000 fps just doesn't seem right. any opinions?

More like 1675 fps at 35 KSI. Powder is too fast for that heavy a bullet, a slower powder would give as much or more velocity without the high fast pressure spike.

Getting that bullet up to 2000 fps in a 45-70 will put you into 458 win mag pressures, and possibly beyond. There aren't many 45-70 rifles available that will hold up to that kind of abuse.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:49:37 PM »

My most powerful load in a Ruger No 1.
A 300 Grain Hornady jacketed hollow point at 2300 Feet per second, this is using Norma N133 Powder.
This is what Kent Waters calls a Super Group 3 load. Just a little shy of the .458 Winchester Mag and kicks like one, not for the recoil sensitive person.

mechanic · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:25:59 PM »

I have fired some loads in my BC that were north of 1900 fps., but not many. It's too painful by far. That steel butt plate is not conducive to that kind of recoil. How much pressure will the BC stand? Beats me, but even though you won't be in the range of high pressure bottle necks such as the 223, you will be in the "ouch" recoil range above 1700-1800.

Ben

tacklebury · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2011, 06:32:40 PM »

Bye the Bye, this is the data from Alliant's website for the .45-70 using Reloader7 and a 300 gr. Speer HP, which is very close to the FP Hornady for how deep it is seated in the case. It came very nearly identical to the Hornady 300gr HP, but this is also from a 22" barrel, so you can see at about 50fps/inch increase the 32" BC would probably gain as much as 500fps over this speed using a slow powder like RL7. I've looked up very similar loads elsewhere. There isn't anything you cannot put down with that speed. Other loading manuals show slightly higher loadings too. ;)Centerfire Rifle45/70 Government (Lever Actions)

Speer 300 gr FNHP

Case	Minimum OAL (inches)	Bbl Length	Primer	Powder	Charge Weight (grains)	Velocity (fps)	Notes	Print
Winchester	2.53	22	CCI 200	Reloder 7	47	2,001	-	View this recipe

Cheesehead · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2011, 06:41:48 PM »

Just today I was shooting my Marlin 1895. The rounds were Hornady 350's over a MAXIMUM charge of RL 7. Three round were enough. Its been awhile since I shot that rifle, I must have forgot you just dont shoot 20 rounds in a row.

Cheese

parkergunshop · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2011, 04:16:48 AM »

Update on an earlier post:

My most powerful load in a Ruger No 1.
A 300 Grain Hornady jacketed hollow point at 2300 Feet per second, this is using Norma N133 Powder.
This is what Kent Waters calls a Super Group 3 load. Just a little shy of the .458 Winchester Mag and kicks like one, not for the recoil sensitive person.

The above load in a 8 pound Ruger No 1 actually has more felt recoil than my .458 Winchester Mag with the 510 grain factory loads in an 11 pound Bolt action. I agree that over 2000 feet per second is not needed with any bullet in the 45/70 even with what Waters calls the group 3 rifles.

Only if you hunt in Africa would you need a load more powerful than a 300 grain bullet in the 45/70 at 2000 FPS, and I question the wisdom of hunting the big three in Africa with a single shot rifle.

drdougrx · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2011, 04:27:13 AM »

I think that Nobade said it right in that you can pretty much load it till you can't handle the recoil. I load my #1 with a 350gr speer sp bullets. I've had them up to 1970fps....never again...... My current load will hold an inch at 100 all day long and chronographs at 1690fps under a nice (not max) dose of IMR4895.

JeffG · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2011, 07:21:31 AM »

+1 If you want all that oomph! Get a 485 Winny. The rifles are heavier, and have recoil pads. Your shoulder will be better in a few days, but your head will be a little crooked for a week.

tacklebury · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2011, 12:59:24 PM »

Yah, I like the mid 40's with RL7. Kick is there, but more of a push than hard kick. Get it over 50 and it starts hurtin me.

BBF · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2011, 07:51:09 AM »

Quote from: parkergunshop on October 19, 2011, 04:16:48 AM

........................
............................and I question the wisdom of hunting the big three in Africa with a single shot rifle.

At first glance I agree, particularly people that hunt with archery on DG. However judging by the films I see there are several people armed with large caliber rifles in the "herd" of humans that accompany the hunter.

JeffG · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:30:32 AM »

Garrett has custom loaded lead for 45/70* 420 gr lead at 1850fps. Hot, nasty and very effective! $80 a box.

tacklebury · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2011, 12:02:53 PM »

They've been doing it with drillings and side by sides for years. In the time it takes you to re-cock a bolt action, I have a second bullet in my BC, no problem.

Several African big game animals are one shot only by the hunter anyway. On an elephant (can accelerate to 40 mph in 4 steps) you have to hit a 3" circle from any direction you decide to take the shot. If you miss that, you will have no time to cycle a bolt in many cases. That's why the PH have the 500 NE or bigger to put the beast down in time, hopefully. That's why the 575 TRex was made.

All that to say, I cannot afford a trip to Africa, but if people can take a Cape buffalo with a 50# recurve, you bet you can with a single .45-70. hehe

simplicity · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:06:34 PM »

If your really looking to get oomph out of hat classic have the chamber lengthened to be 45-120 yuh can stilll shoot 45-70 and you can load the 45-120 up quite a bi more without a ton of chamber pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKdAY30tWxg

tacklebury · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:51:27 PM »

Hehe have considered it. The 52 gr. RL7 rocked me back about the same though in the 70 gr. version. Don't think, unless I start doing lots of BPCR, I'll jump it. With RL7 I can load from trap door to DANG it levels.

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2011, 05:14:13 AM »

I arrived at my "DANG" level with 50 gr of RL-7 pushing a 350 gr Hdy. RN

shot1 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2011, 12:03:34 PM »

A Lyman #457193 will drop an average 418 gr bullet from wheel weights with a little 50/50 soldier added. 70 grs of FFG Goex black powder with a 30 thousands Walters wad on top or for smokeless 28 grs AA5744 will get you around 1400 fps from a 28" barrel. I used this load to shoot a few deer with out of my Sharps 45-70 rifle. Shot one deer at 111 yards that was facing me. By the time the bullet struck the deer put its head down and the bullet struck it on the forehead just above the eyes. The bullet turned it's neck vertebrae into saw dust and exited just behind the left shoulder going down and shooting completely off the left back leg just above the knee joint. Bullet then hit a hard packed logging road and went under the ground for about 10 yards which looked like a mole and came out of the ground and went through an about 4 inch thick tree and that is where I lost track of the bullet. Do you need any more penetration that that? If you do I suggest a 50 BMG with armor piercing ammo.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:09:52 PM »

May just be me but I find that a #1 will reach the DANG level a lot sooner with the same load then an H&R wil.
Must be the way the stocks are cut.
Take the BC stock off and replace it with a monty carlo stock with a good pad and you can stand a lot more than you will in a #1 or buy an extra BC stock and have a pad installed.
That is what I am going to do to my 120.
If you want to feel what a stout load in a BC with a pad feels like just go shot a 450 Marlin in a Handi.
350gr factory load at about 2050 fps gives a good idea of the recoil.
Not near what a 45/70 #1 feels like.
I just don't like #1s.
They abuse me to much.

LONGTOM

petemi · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2011, 01:04:25 AM »

My hunting load which is very accurate, MOA at 100 yards, is a Rem 405 over 45.8 gr. IMR4198 for 1950 fps. This is out of a 22 inch Handi Rifle. It kills on both ends. Do I need that much velocity? Yes, I believe I do. I hunt my own land which is farmland and wooded. Shots can be from ten to three hundred yards.

Pete

Ranch13 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:27:18 AM »

If you load a 500gr cast bullet with the government or sharps style nose, cast from nothing harder than 20-1 or wheelweights, and push that bullet to 1200 fps it'll shoot thru a bull buffalo on a broadside and will almost travel the length of one on a straight on shot. Most anyone big enough to handle a rifle can shoot that 500 gr bullet with ease and not alot of discomfort, and with properly equipped sights can shoot moa out to as far as you care to shoot.
I always wonder why folks will drool and slobber all over themselves about the power and wonder of a 454 casul but yet think a 45-70 loaded with 300 gr bullets at trapdoor levels is underpowered.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:37:51 AM »

Look at IMR 4198 and RL7 powders and work up to the max in your gun. If its afactory stock, I'll bet you give up before you reach max loads.

Good luck,
CW

StrawHat · « **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2011, 11:26:05 PM »

Quote from: Ranch13 on November 01, 2011, 05:27:18 AM

If you load a 500gr cast bullet with the government or sharps style nose, cast from nothing harder than 20-1 or wheelweights, and push that bullet to 1200 fps it'll shoot thru a bull buffalo on a broadside and will almost travel the length of one on a straight on shot. Most anyone big enough to handle a rifle can shoot that 500 gr bullet with ease and not alot of discomfort, and with properly equipped sights can shoot moa out to as far as you care to shoot.
I always wonder why folks will drool and slobber all over themselves about the power and wonder of a 454 casul but yet think a 45-70 loaded with 300 gr bullets at trapdoor levels is underpowered.

I know what you mean. I use a 45-70 loaded with BP and the guys around here all feel sorry for me. Until it goes off and the game drops. Then they want to know "How did that happen?" I use the 405 HB bullet.

rbursek · « **Reply #29 on:** November 12, 2011, 11:21:09 AM »

yOU WANT PUNISHMENT, try my #3 with the half moon metal butt plate, with 500gr Hornadies max out in that 6lb rifle, loaded 20 that way in 1976 and have 15 left.
Bob