Mikey
I have been reloading for probably as long as you. I use the reloading manuals as a guide, not the absolute bible. This is the advise ad directions they all used to say before this age of percieved overt legal liabilitities. I work up loads using theold recommended techniques and do not get into trouble. On several occasions, with some cartridges, I exceed the loads listed. If some of us did not exceed those loads, in appropriate firearms, we would not have several of the very fine cartridges we have today that started as wildcats. We also would not have the higher performance loads based on the .45 Colt or the 45-70. We would not have the +P loadings for several pistol and revolver cartridges.
I am not looking for an arguement here, I'm just stating that reloading can be done safely by working up appropriate loads using the manuals as a guide. The manuals have had and still have errors in them. The Lyman statement regarding "the use of larger bullets when the chambers had or did not have sufficient tolerance to use the larger bullet." that is a good guide but it does not state that ALL the chambers will not take the .311/.312 bullets. It only infers that some might not. I've yet to see a M44 that wouldn't take a .311 bullet. If the owner has any doubts there are several easy methods to determine if it will.
One of the problems we see more and more with new or inexperienced shooters is when they read statements that imply the manuals are the bible, the god's gospel and never to be exceeded is that they assume everything the manuals publish is safe. They will go straight to the max load published in a manual or on a web sight just about every time. And why not? it's in the manual so it's safe, hell the experts say so. I do not say the manuals are the "last" word, simply because they are not.
It is ok with me that you stick to your original opinion; "I'll stick by my original caveat that one should cast out both the chamber and bore to determine the best bullet size for the rifle. If it turns out to be 308. Fine. If it turns out to be 311, fine." However, that is not what you said in your post. You stated equivicably that "we have determined" that 7.62x54Rs were .308 bores. Most are not and that is what I said.
As a side note or perhaps the theme of a different thread; " If you shoot a 311 bullet through a 308 bore, you will not get the accuracy you want or expect and you will wear down the rifling more rapidly than expected. Of course, there are pressure concerns as well." I wonder what diffinative evidence you have of that? I have shot many thousands of .311 cast bullets through many .308 barrels with nary a sign of wear. Has anyone really "worn" out a barrel with cast bullet loads? I shoot many many pulled .310/.311 SKS/AK bullets through a couple of .308s and '06s without any notice of wear. Accuracy is as good and most often better than when fired out of .311/.312 barrels. Would probably be an interesting discussion on those subjects.
"If you shoot a 308 bullet through a 311 bore, you just loose your accuracy." There is no doubt about that point and THAT was exactly my point in my original response. Complete agreement there.
We should all be cautious and not use any loads that exceed the safe limits of the cartridge or firearm used. However, the manuals do not contain ALL safe loads or loading techniques. The manuals are guides and darned good ones at that. I believe all reloaders should have several (AND READ THEM) because what is explained in one may not be in another and they also point out different loading methods and techniques.
By the way Mikey, I just got this .300 mugglesome, semi belted rebated rimless magnum based on a shortened, stretched and blown out gee whiz, hold a pound of powder case (oh yah, and the shoulder was changed from 40 degrees to 41 degrees). Well I haven't got the rifle yet but I got a brochure from the dealer (really a drinking buddy who scratched the design last night on a table napkin in the local bar). I am going to build it on a martini (is that the same company that makes the drink?) action because I watched Zulu when I was a kid and always wanted one. Anyways, what is the max load with the best bullet I can load ( the most accurate too by the way) for shooting across canyons and as personal defenase against all these crazed mountain lions, grizzley bears and othe ferocious beasts when I go jogging downtown in the city park? I would look it up in a manual but by the time I read it the data would be obsolete and anyways, what are these forums for anyway? Can you also tell me how much the change from 40 degrees to 41 degrees on the shoulder will tighen my group at 1000 yards? Will there be a zero difference if i swtch fro 110 gr bullets to 250 gr bullets and is there one powder I can use in it and my .410 derringer which I want to start reloading for too. Should I get a progressive press for the derringer as I see they are popular with competition shooters? Just one more quick question; who makes the mount to put the new Bushnell lazer range finder binoculars on the Martini? I thought I would have a mil-dot reticle put in it for range finding and then I could have binoculars, range finder and scope in one package on the rifle. Sure would be handy (maybe "scout"ish) having all three in one package and not having to swtch between them when being charged while jogging would be a great Idea, don't you think? Ok, I know you're busy but one last thing; I've got two hundred bucks now and will get another hundred from my taxes so can you name the best custom gunsmith who can build my rifle for that?
Now don't we just love those questions:-)
Larry Gibson
