Author Topic: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads  (Read 1623 times)

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Offline AtlLaw

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Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« on: October 18, 2011, 11:57:59 AM »
Cast from WW's sweetened with some 95/5 solder and water quenched.  I used a "Lee-mented" Lee mould and these were shot from my M-94.  I was very happy!   ;D
 
I've never tried quenching bullets before and these shot every bit as good as the core locks I use for hunting.  I can't wait to try them in my other 30-30's.  If they shoot anywhere near as well I'll be shooting them guns a lot more!   :D  'course I'm getting to like that TAC powder pretty good to!   ;)
Richard
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Offline BBF

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 01:26:54 PM »
You did write FN, how big of a meplat?
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Offline res45

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 04:04:26 PM »
It's like this one. This is my deer load I shoot in my Sav. 30-30 pump gun,Lee 170 gr. GC cast from 30:1 Lead/Tin alloy and 30 grs. of H335 MV 2100 fps.  My plinker loads uses 8.0 grs. Red Dot same bullet cast from WW alloy no gas check and two light coats of Alox/JPW lube MV 1250 fps.  The 30-30 and cast bullets were made for each other.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 06:27:53 AM »
how big of a meplat?

The picture res posted is it.  Looks to be about 60% of the diameter of the bullet.  I can measure one tonight if I remember.  'course that's a real big "if" at my age...  :(
 
This is my deer load I shoot in my Sav. 30-30 pump gun,Lee 170 gr. GC cast from 30:1

When I saw how well they shot and with the big meplat  I started thinking about using them on deer myself.  But, being comparatively new to casting and cast bullet shooting I am a little dubious about doing it.   :-\    I just wonder if such a small caliber hardened bullet will cause enough tissue damage/disruption for a quick kill; 44 cal and up, no worries!   ;D
 
Richard
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Offline BBF

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 10:18:03 AM »
how big of a meplat?

..................................
........................................I am a little dubious about doing it.   :-\    I just wonder if such a small caliber hardened bullet will cause enough tissue damage/disruption for a quick kill; 44 cal and up, no worries!   ;D

That is my concern as well. Meplat size is 1/2 of the equation the other being impact velocity. 2100 fps MV  is close to the commercial loading MV.
 
There is a program available that calculates permanent wound size using V and meplat size on line.
 
  I have two Lee 308 cal molds. One for 200 gr which is a RN the other is 150 gr FNGC
 
The only 30 cal rifle I have is a Rem 742 in 30-06 which adds two more consideration when using cast bullets.
1. Enough pressure to cycle the action
2. The possibility of plugging the gas port. I have no clue if that is even possible with the pressure created by even light loads.
 
I do like the looks of that 170 grainer above :) .
 
With bullet prices creeping up at even faster rates it may be the sign of the future for more and most cast bullet use.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 11:26:05 AM »
With bullet prices creeping up at even faster rates it may be the sign of the future for more and most cast bullet use.

Bad thing is lead WW's are getting harder to get!   :(   Last 100 lbs I bought had a good bit of the total weight made up of steel and zink.  Not to mention 50-55 cents a pound...  :'(
Richard
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 02:37:21 PM »
If you are worried about meplat size, try some Ranch Dog C.311-170RF or TLC311-165RF. The molds go in and out of stock as demand warrants since they are basicaly custom molds ordered in 'groups'.
It's the largest meplat that I know of for a .308. As you can tell from the picture it had some trouble fitting in a short throated Marlin. There is some pretty good youtube videos of guys hitting targets waaaaay out there with these bullets......No experience with them myself,.....yet!
 
For bullets to try before you get a mold;
http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/Ranch_Dog_Outdoors.html
 
For molds and info;
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_16&products_id=129
 
 
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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 07:25:30 AM »
Richard:
Last time( 10 years) I checked on lead prices in a salvage yard it was going for 1 buck a pound.
 
I'm (un)fortunate depending on my viewpoint to have several hundred of pounds available from a boat's movable ballast and if I add the weight of the keels it would come out to almost 2000 lb.
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Offline res45

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 01:46:51 PM »
A bullet with a meplat about 60 to 70% of the bullets dia. should be good to go.  The FN design along with the velocity,bullets weight/forward momentum and most importantly shot placement is what kills.  They transfer the energy due to the flat front portion of the bullet well.

Up until the late 1800's every firearm used a swaged lead or cast or paper patched lead bullet and there are many dead animals among other things to prove just how good they worked.  As far as bullet hardness water quenched WW will be about as hard as Lino alloy,the WW bullet will expand somewhat while the Lino want and both will mostly like pass completely through unless they strike a major bone.


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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 05:54:15 PM »
A bullet with a meplat about 60 to 70% of the bullets dia. should be good to go.  ... Up until the late 1800's every firearm used a swaged lead or cast or paper patched lead bullet and there are many dead animals among other things to prove just how good they worked.  ... unless they strike a major bone.

The hard lead bullet has always had me guessing about expansion and tissue damage.   :-\  So much so that I read everything I could find on pouring bullets with a hard alloy rear section followed by a pure lead forward portion.  But some of the learned members here seem to think a hardened cast bullet is fine, just aim for the shoulder so as to hit something solid to transfer energy.  I dunno...  :-\
Richard
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 06:10:03 PM »
Just choot 'em in the eye Richard.... ;D
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 07:29:01 PM »
From Veral Smith,
 
"In my book, Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets I have a chapter which will answer your questions fully, with a formula which calculates the wound diameter created by a flat nose at a given speed. 
To be sure of maximum effective range, using my formula, which gives a relitive number to the 'displacement velocity' of tissue spray, which causes the wound by any bullet, if the wound is larger than the bullet.
I cannot do justice the the topic in this forum.  You'll have to read my book, which you'll find listed in my catalog."
 
"My displacement velocity formula is: Velocity times meplat width in thousandths of an inch, divided by 4. Ideal DV range for big game is 100 to 125, with 130 at the very max for fastest kills. At 100, wound diameter will average about 1 inch, at 125 it will be around 1 1/4 inch.  If the wound diameter is 1 1/2 inch or larger in diameter the animal will normally run like it's tail is afire for 50 to 150 yards before expiring, though the shot is centered in the vitals.  Yes even with a 4 inch diameter exit wound on a deer.  Many will drop instantly with large wounds, if nerve shock anchors them, but many will run violently because blood flow is slowed by too large a wound."
 
"You can measure the meplat of the bullet you are planning to use and calculate the DV for yourself.  Bullet shape and design aren't factors, as the flat causes a spray of tissue which doesn't touch the sides of the bullet, and this spray is what makes the wound, whether the bullet is an expanding type or non-expanding.  i.e. A SWC shoulder never gets wet during penetration unless it nearly stops in the animal."

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,101081.msg1098270914.html#msg1098270914
 
That would give the Ranch Dog bullet with a velocity of 2000fps, a DV number of 112.5.
Right in the zone.............
 
(I don't sell RD bullets, just using that example.)
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Offline res45

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 12:33:28 PM »
I just measured one of my Lee 170 gr. bullet,the DV works out to be right at 104.95 not as good as the RD mold but it's been sufficient.  Casting the bullet with a little softer alloy gives some expansion but the bullet is still hard enough to punch through 1/4" steel plate on a 45 degree angles at 40 yds.

Found that out when I was testing the load for accuracy with the irons,I was wondering why I was seeing daylight through my bullet trap that sits in front of the dirt berm.   If I were buying my first 30-30 mold I would have probably bought the RD 30-30 mold if it had been available at the time,mainly because of the TL design which I have had great success with in both rifles and pistols.
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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2011, 01:39:20 PM »
@res45
 
Bet a Mule Deer couldn't tell the difference.........OUCH!!.......Thud..............
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline res45

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Re: Tried my 170 gr FPGC 30-30 loads
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 02:46:04 PM »
Down here in the sticks of NC where I live most whitetail bucks run between 100 and 200 lbs. most are smaller than larger but an occasion monster buck gits killed every so often on private land. 

People don't hunt as much as they used to around here and a lot of bad genetics are starting to creep into the deer population.  It's ashamed because back in my early years there were always nice big deer to kill and plenty to go around.  There are still plenty around  but I see more lying dead beside the road hit by vehicles than I do on the back of hunter pickup trucks down at the country store in town when all the guy hang out.   

Now the darn yotes are starting to populate the area and eating people cats and little dogs at night,had one trot through my backyard the other night but couldn't get my rifle fast enough to put a hurting on it.
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