Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?

[ironglow]

First let me say..I have no idea who Gov Hot Legs is..unless you guys on the liberal side are confusing the office of Gov with  the office of Sen...and you guys thought right along of Sen Anthony Weiner as "Hot Legs"..
  Never can tell with the radical left !
  So..How's Obamacare working lately ?

[jimster]

It's all scare tactics used by both sides . Some can see through them others cant.

 
Scare tactics...?  I'm not scared of much these days...they will have some people decide the things that my brothers and my my mother and myself decided eventually.  I would suppose for the very few people here that want government involved in every aspect of their lives, no big deal, it's a way of life to a few people here.  As for me...I really liked making the decision myself with my family having a say as well. I might not be able to make these decisions anymore due to the changes coming, but there are a couple here that won't miss a thing.    They are still saying there is no such thing as the death panel, after I told them I was on one... .   Death panel does not sound so good, I admit....there are other ways to put it, we may have to be politically correct and find another way to say it.
 
I bet Congress won't be included in anything that has been legislated, anyone want to bet?
What does that tell you? 
 
 
 

[BUGEYE]

my wife and her sisters were that panel a few weeks ago when their mother died.
it was a heart wrenching decision for them.
but government should never have that power.

[ironglow]

my wife and her sisters were that panel a few weeks ago when their mother died.
it was a heart wrenching decision for them.
but government should never have that power.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  Bugeye.
  My wife and her sister performed that exact task a few years ago.  Not fun, but they would have resented some bureaucrat sticking his/her nose into the decision...

[SwampThing762]

my wife and her sisters were that panel a few weeks ago when their mother died.
it was a heart wrenching decision for them.
but government should never have that power.

BUGEYE,

I know this is late, but I wish to express my condolences for your family loss.  Yes, government should never have that power.   


And to the libs here at GBO, the death panels are real, no matter how vehemently you deny the reality.   The IPABs are the ones that do the review to determine if you get your treatment, and live or die.

The other death panels is that small group of the White House shadow regime that decides if you are killed or not without due process because the President believes you are an enemy of the state.   Again, there is the power of life and death in the hands of government.

Accept it.  If you do not like it, pray that the liberal messiah descends from his lofty perch in January 2013.

ST762

[BUGEYE]

my parents each died suddenly so I was not involved, but I saw real anguish in my wife.
if some insurance fat-cat or government big-wig had showed to make the decision, there would probably have been a "killing".  I'm sick of this liberal gov.

[Dixie Dude]

Well, when someone is 80 years old and needs a life saving operation that they might be physically able to go through, and some bureaucrat says no, then the 15 member panel in Washington will be a death panel.  They will be deciding ultimately who gets what and how it is rationed.  Download the health care bill and read it.  It is going to cost more, ration limited resources, and not do what it was intended.  Most of the health care "crisis" was caused by the "free trade agreements" (and Obama just signed 3 more, South Korea, Panama, and Columbia) and our manufacturing went overseas, there went the jobs that provided health care.  Bring industry back and you get your health care back.  Poor and elderly were always adequately covered by Medicare and Medicaid.  Most who weren't covered were 18-35 that had jobs that provided it, but they chose not to buy.  That was 85% of the uncovered.  Rest were mostly people between jobs or just plain lazy. 

[NWBear]

Well, when someone is 80 years old and needs a life saving operation that they might be physically able to go through, and some bureaucrat says no, then the 15 member panel in Washington will be a death panel.  They will be deciding ultimately who gets what and how it is rationed. 

DD, What do we call it when it is an Insurance company "adjuster" who says we won't cover that procedure?  You still have the option of paying for it yourself - free market !!!!  Sure you paid for your insurance, but did you read the fine print?  All the exclusions and conditions, probably not (no shame I don't).  Believe me there is plenty that Medicare/Medicade DON'T cover, I do insurance billing for a living.  So they are not condeming you to death (Death Panels) just making a business decision to not pay for something they did not contract to cover?  You still have the option of paying yourself.  Same with any Govt. plan, don't like it - pay for additonal coverage or care out of your pocket.  I really don't understand the controversy.  Is everyone for a free market until the consequences affect them?

[ironglow]

 Not hard to figure out..  Just look at the countries which have govt insurance for some time..they all have death panels.
  Either that or they place such a long waiting time for emergency procedures and diagnoses, that the patient often dies while waiting..
 
  Canada    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MODV9pdViIA&feature=related
 
  Canada     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MODV9pdViIA&feature=related
 
 The UK      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PWgoSKxx84

[BUGEYE]

Not hard to figure out..  Just look at the countries which have govt insurance for some time..they all have death panels.
  Either that or they place such a long waiting time for emergency procedures and diagnoses, that the patient often dies while waiting..

Holland openly encourages euthanasia.

[powderman]

MOM is 86, still has cancer but it's not moving. She just had surgery for carpal tunnel on her rt hand. It has let her continue to play the piano for her Church. I doubt it would have been allowed under obamacare. POWDERMAN. 

[Hodr]

Death panels have been in existence since the Napoleonic Wars.  Death panels are on TV every day, a sample is MASH.  They are called TRIAGE.  Look up the word on Wiki.  The horror of Obama care is that TRIAGE is to be performed by bean counters hundreds of miles and hours away instead of the medics on the scene.
 
Hodr

[BUGEYE]

Well, when someone is 80 years old and needs a life saving operation that they might be physically able to go through, and some bureaucrat says no, then the 15 member panel in Washington will be a death panel.  They will be deciding ultimately who gets what and how it is rationed. 

DD, What do we call it when it is an Insurance company "adjuster" who says we won't cover that procedure?   You still have the option of paying for it yourself - free market !!!!  Sure you paid for your insurance, but did you read the fine print?  All the exclusions and conditions, probably not (no shame I don't).  Believe me there is plenty that Medicare/Medicade DON'T cover, I do insurance billing for a living.  So they are not condeming you to death (Death Panels) just making a business decision to not pay for something they did not contract to cover?  You still have the option of paying yourself.  Same with any Govt. plan, don't like it - pay for additonal coverage or care out of your pocket.  I really don't understand the controversy.  Is everyone for a free market until the consequences affect them?

When somebody is 80 + years old and scheduled for a major operation under anethesia the families should pause and reflect....the probability of the elderly dieng shortly after such invasive practices goes way way up.  This is often profit centered medicine operating....caveat emptor.
 
I get a kick out of the so-called self-styled conservatives who want endless unlimited med coverages for ailing relatives, or themselves, with no say by taxpayers representatives which is the government in the case of medicaid and medicare, and HC boards in the case of members in HC insurance plans; yet when it comes to social net aid for the underclass it should all be cut, cut, cut.  Seems odd..
 
Meanwhile, just try to start a HC Insurance company in a monolpolistic environment...you better bring mega amounts of capital and influence to the table.  About the only institution capable of doing this is the government. Not talking about forming a subsidary from an existant mega corp.

I know of nobody in Canada, Holland, UK, Italy, France, etc...demonstrating or demanding a HC system just like the USA's.
 
...TM7
.

you are totally wrong in your assumtions.  when we want to cut, cut, cut, it's not any program that helps people who cannot help themselves. plus, the countries you mentioned ? those with enough enough money, come here for medical care because their socialized medicine can't give the care they need.

[jimster]

OK, so we are getting somewhere, the title of this thread was

Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?

Now we have admitted there already was and is death panels and she was't lying I guess, so now it comes down to some saying

I get a kick out of the so-called self-styled conservatives who want endless
unlimited med coverages for ailing relatives, or themselves, with no say by
taxpayers representatives which is the government in the case of medicaid and
medicare, and HC boards in the case of members in HC insurance plans; yet when
it comes to social net aid for the underclass it should all be cut, cut, cut. 
Seems odd..

So we naturally went back to the we need this government control, even though on our death panel we choose to not spend any more insurance money.  So where are the facts of all these "conservatives" using up money to drag things out?  Or was my case real rare case? 
And do I get someone from the governmnet on my next panel even though I have proven capable on jy death panel?
 
 

[jimster]

OK...getting somewhere...good thoughts here. 
 
So now we have established the fact that there will be people on these panels probably from the government(?) to make sure the proper economic decisions are made.   
 
Even though our goverment has proven it can't make these economic decisions, never has been able to use simple math, and currently are spending more than they take in on everything they touch...they will be able to handle this?
 
We are obviously doomed from the start, I have proven I can make these decisions as a conservative even though it affected my family.  Our government has already proven it is not capable of making any decisons at all.
 
It appears we just have proven their HC plan is doomed already.  Same as everything else they touch.
 
Good thread...we came a long ways on this one and finally got somewhere.
 
 

[jimster]

Or a governmnet taken back by we-the-people wherein things might run right again.

I am with you on that...too bad we passed legislation already without that in place. Whoops. 
 

Point is Americans just don't want to see governmnet disappear per say

Have not heard anyone say they want government to disappear, except the socialists say conservatives say that, but it's a false statement in general. Nobody has said that really. I would however agree with you on the people would like the current bunch of people holding office to dissapear.  Sooner the better.
 

Just remember...we're all Capitalists when there's profits to be had, but we're all Socialists when there are losses to be spread around.

I do not think we are all capitalists, but we certainly need that for socialism to survive at all.  Wealth is not created by government or socialists.  Although they do take a pretty big share of mine.  I'm not sure some socialists are aware of where their money/stuff comes from because they openly despise capitalism.  Seems if they were smart they would make friends with whoever is making the money they use..?  Oh well. 
 
The birds at the bird feeder don't know where the food comes from either, all they know is it's just there somehow.
 
 

 

[SwampThing762]

A Public Option is the absolute worst thing for the healthcare industry, even worse than the individual mandate.   Obama wants everyone to be on government healthcare, which will destroy the insurance and healthcare system in America.   Here it is in his own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

and again.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUgMJHOt6dw&feature=related

Obamacare is designed as a particular tool to destroy and dismantle the current healthcare system.

TM7 posts that eliminating or reducing the executive performance incentives and benefit packages will bring the cost of healthcare and insurance down.   Nothing is farther from the truth.

Allowing the free market to compete for family and employer dollars will help reduce cost of insurance, but there is still the burden of cost for actual care.      There is a federal law that is currently on the books, SIGNED BY PRESIDENT REAGAN [caps for the GBO libs who are anti-capitalism, pro-Obamacare], known in the healthcare industry as EMTALA, which says that if you come to the emergency room of a hospital you must be given care without regard to ability or inability to pay.    People who have the ability to pay for care go to the ER like a doctor's office or urgent care facility, obtain care, leave and then do not pay for rendered services.   Millions of people [this includes illegal aliens] go to the hospital for care, receive it, and walk out on the bill.   That results in millions and millions and millions of dollars in lost reimbursement for healthcare providers.     That cost is then absorbed in cost increases for people with insurance and do pay their bills.  Again, you have one group of Americans paying for another.

The solution, in my opinion, is to repeal and replace EMTALA with legislation that addresses the issue of care costs and provides an expanded basis for physicians and hospitals to render care under state and federal charity care guidelines.    Further legislation that strengthens collections and credit reporting  laws should also be enacted allowing medical costs to remain on a credit report for 10 years, not seven.

Other options include keeping the charitable donations tax deduction in place if those contributions are paid to clinics and organizations who provide free healthcare to people who would otherwise tie up hospital emergency rooms.  Include in charity guidelines for hospitals referrals from said clinics to process these patients under institutional charity programs.    People will still get free care, and it does not increase the costs of a hospital stay.

ST762

[BUGEYE]

under obama care we'll have to cross the border into mexico to get timely medical care.