Author Topic: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?  (Read 1816 times)

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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« on: October 19, 2011, 12:07:42 PM »
Obama called Sarah Palin  liar, when she bought up the subject of death panels in the Obama health care plan.  Watch this video commentary, and you decide who the liar really is.

Mendte on Medicare, click on the video on the right, with the title, Mendte:The Dangerous State of Medicare 2:17.

 http://www.wpix.com/news/blogs/mendte/
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2011, 12:13:15 PM »
No she wasn't.  It is already starting.  Drugs in short supply needed desperately now for various things. 

Offline Gary G

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 01:01:39 PM »
Politicians in an attempt to buy votes got into the business of providing medical care. This caused the price of all medical care to rise enormously. Now, they do not have the money to pay for their promises. No politician wants to be the first to say cut medicare as it would cost them their job. The alternative makes Sarah Palin right.


The Liar-in-Chief has now established another death panel. The use of force to kill an american citizen is decided by an elite group. Will future enemies of the establishment be terminated? The Bill of Rights is no longer is in effect.


We are all United States citizens, but America died long ago at the hands of politicians.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline powderman

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 01:25:25 PM »
Quote
We are all United States citizens, but America died long ago at the hands of politicians.
     GARY G. Good post Sir. Yes, all of us may be citizens, but not all of us are Americans. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline NWBear

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 01:45:41 PM »
Sorry to disagree with a few points.  The real "Death Panels", if you want to call them that, are the Big insurance companies.  They decide what procedures to approve and how much they will pay.  If you can't afford treatment - too bad...  I know you will say just go to the emergency room  that's fine except then you need to lose everything you have and depend on the state to pay the bill (h'mm not popular here).  Of course a lot of Hospitals won't take indigent (non-paying) patients so then ...   As far as government health care driving up medical costs - that's a joke.  Government pays the worst (I do insurance billing so believe me I know).  One of the most expensive aspects of Health Care started decades ago with the advent of new technologies MRI, CAT Scan, etc.  When I was in school in San Diego over 30 years ago three Hospitals had a piece of equipment that had a demand, based on population, of one machine.  This means the millions of $$ spent on the othe two was just for bragging rights - and having the "latest technology".  Insurance costs have never really been directly tied to the consumer/user, since most people get insurance through their work.  If you want to know the real cost, get unemployed and shop around for insurance on the open market - not COBRA which is subsidised.  I doubt you will find much for less than $500/mo for an individual or $1000+ for a family.  That's $6000 to $12,000 per year of AFTER TAXES money (at least up to 7.5% of your income) plus deductables, for health insurance.  If you are in the under $50K/year income bracket as most housholds are GOOD LUCK.   
Based on what I know, Health Care and Health insurance are NOT a "FREE MARKET" where competition set the prices.
Not trying to rant, just some facts to consider.  As always there are scammers on ALL sides taking advantage of the system, but that is true in any system or company.

Offline Gary G

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 02:11:15 PM »
And how did the insurance companies get such monopolies? By lobbying government. If they had to compete against free market competition, costs would come down and service would be better. It all goes back to Roosevelts day and government price controls. This enabled third party payers.


Technologies are the excuse given by some for higher medical costs. If that were so, how is it that costs in the computer industry have decreased as technology has expanded? No government there.


Take students loans; what was the result? higher tuition costs.


Anything government meddles in, prices go up.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline powderman

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 04:48:15 AM »
Quote
The real "Death Panels", if you want to call them that, are the Big insurance companies.  They decide what procedures to approve and how much they will pay.

 
NWBEAR. They sure do, but I'm afraid they will pale in comparison to what the obaminations hc panel will do. All part of his plan to destroy America. POWDERMAN.  :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ironglow

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 05:00:47 AM »
  His lips were moving, weren't they !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 05:01:45 AM »
 Insrance companies (lobbyist/$)
 Government  (HMO Act)
 
 I'm saying they're all in it together.
 
 What was it? 1970-71 when the HMO Act was signed? We started seeing a list that insurance companies wouldn't pay for? Which procedures? Even Medi-care is an HMO designed program.
 
 Who does big banking borrow from? The insurance companies. Throughout the seventies we found that Insurance all of a sudden became Mandatory for various aspects of daily living. Who pushed for that to happen?
 
They are all in it together and "conditioning" started years and years ago.
 
Death Panels? By any other name, should we really be surprised?

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 05:07:52 AM »
 Lets see , many young people are not going into the medical field because the return on investment is not worth it since insurance and govt. are fixing prices and income. The govt. has lowered the test score needed to get a lic in America, this is the test off shore dr's take to pratice here . Be it insurance or govt appointed group when they can withold medicine or treatment they are a death pannel.
Someones plan is working .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 05:10:50 AM »
I believe 'Death Panel' is a political term made up by Palin on a facebook post. There is no such thing. Does anyone know anyone empaneled on a 'Death Panel'?

Bottom line - 'death panel' is an effective political slogan, along with being a lie, but there is no such 'panel'
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 05:16:33 AM »
Fair enough , So what would you call the group that decided a friend of mine with cancer could not have a treatment ? His church, here at work , friends etc got togather and paid for the treatment that allowed him to live and work almost 10 more years. I see the agenda as those who wish to put the decision back in the doctors and paitents hands. We pay for insurance for all our working life and lose benifits for stupid reasons , like changing policies while still working at the same place and with same insurance co. They seem to forget who paid.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 05:31:22 AM »
I want the Dr to decide if I can live and would I live a good life if treatment was given. Not some group looking at the profit side of a blance sheet.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 05:37:45 AM »
  No "death panels" HUH ?
 
     Hitler's gang murdered 6,000,000 Jews and they never called it "murdering"...they called it the "final solution"...
   
   Liberals and other socialists are full of "newspeak".. an artperfected by the National Socialists (Nazis)..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2011, 05:40:38 AM »
I want the Dr to decide if I can live and would I live a good life if treatment was given. Not some group looking at the profit side of a blance sheet.
they are already trying to cut PSA tests, mammograms and pap smears.

my first defibrillator cost $10,000, my second was $15,000.  if I live long enough to need a 3rd one, it will probably not be done, whether private or public insurance.  according to obama, I'm not worth saving.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline powderman

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2011, 05:44:47 AM »
I want the Dr to decide if I can live and would I live a good life if treatment was given. Not some group looking at the profit side of a blance sheet.

 
AMEN to that. I too have seen life saving procedures withheld because the ins co says NOOOOO. I'd call that a death panel. It's a crock whe a professional Dr prescribes a med to better ones life and the ins scum say, no, we won't pay. They are really saying, SO WHAT?? We don't care, just give us our money. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline DDZ

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2011, 11:28:21 AM »
We can't call it a spooky name like death panels, that is just to harsh for the pro government health care crowd. So why not just deny they exist. Its easy enough to just deny, deny, and deny some more.
 Maybe we can come up with a name that doesn't sound so final. How about something like cancellation panels, termination panels, or extinction panels. After all the term abortion certainly worked for gaining legality to murder people in the womb.     
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline jimster

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2011, 04:00:40 PM »
Quote
The real "Death Panels", if you want to call them that, are the Big insurance companies.
I guess I have to disagree, since I myself was on a death panel, a real one.  No insurance company people were there.  Two doctors, my mother, and two brothers were on this death panel.  We decided if life should go on or be cut short, insurance company was not there at all, and if we would have decided to stretch it out, there would have been gobs of more money involved I'm sure.  We decided to end life, nothing to do with insurance money though.  Death panels are real, I was one one so it must be so.  Now it's just a matter of who else can be on these death panels besides doctors and family after the legislation kicks in. 
Let's see...what did we call it while at the hospital...private conference...I don't know I forget, but it's basically a death panel, you might want to find out who else gets to be on it besides family and doctors in the future.  Anyway, our death panel did not have an insurance agent there, unless the doctors working for them...they did offer to drag things out another month.  We just said no. Doctors said OK. 
 

Offline srussell

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2011, 05:51:23 PM »
i do be live in the death panel theory.for two reasons . big insurance company's don't like paying out period. and second i truly be live the liberals would like to get rid of two generations of hard line Conservatives(the baby boomer generation and the one ahead of them.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2011, 07:41:01 PM »
I want the Dr to decide if I can live and would I live a good life if treatment was given. Not some group looking at the profit side of a blance sheet.
Well said, and straight to the point!
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 07:48:15 PM »
I believe 'Death Panel' is a political term made up by Palin on a facebook post. There is no such thing. Does anyone know anyone empaneled on a 'Death Panel'?

Bottom line - 'death panel' is an effective political slogan, along with being a lie, but there is no such 'panel'
Okay, according to you since there is no "death panel", would you be kind enough to tell me what you would call it, when a group of people decide that they don't want to pay for your treatment, because your; too old, too sick, too weak, or the treatment for your disease or health problem is too expensive to treat, etc. ?
Seriously, what would you recommend we call it?
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2011, 12:15:19 AM »
Okay, according to you since there is no "death panel",

Doesn't have anything to do with me.

Quote
would you be kind enough to tell me what you would call it, when a group of people decide that they don't want to pay for your treatment, because your; too old, too sick, too weak, or the treatment for your disease or health problem is too expensive to treat, etc. ?

I don't know what I'd call what you describe, but want me to name... choices? Rationing of finite resources? Decisions? Real life? 
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2011, 12:28:16 AM »
I believe 'Death Panel' is a political term made up by Palin on a facebook post. There is no such thing. Does anyone know anyone empaneled on a 'Death Panel'?

Bottom line - 'death panel' is an effective political slogan, along with being a lie, but there is no such 'panel'
It's all scare tactics used by both sides . Some can see through them others cant.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 02:19:19 AM »
They already have what can be called death panels, in Canada,Great Britian, and a few others. It's the insurance company's that determine if you get treatment or not. 40 and cancer, yea, we'll treat you. 65 and cancer, well, take some of these pills, and that will keep the pain down, while you die. Maybe you might not to call that a death panel, but, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like one!! gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2011, 04:13:39 AM »
My wife downloaded and read the whole 1,000 + page health care bill.  There are "death panels".  Not called that, but if an old person needs a medical procedure that is very expensive and a 40 year old needs the same, such as a transplant, chemotherapy, etc.  A panel of government bureaurocrats will determine who gets what treatment first, even if you were waiting longer.  More people on health care, same number or fewer doctors, means rationing.  No way out of it.  Insurance companies need to compete for your service, go across state lines, and malpractice lawsuits need to be $1 millon max or more to be determined by law.  My doctor told me his malpractice insurance is $2,300 a MONTH.  He has to see enough patients to cover his salary, his nurses, staff, rent and utilities.  He said if the lawsuits were limited to $1,000,000 his insurance would drop to about half or more.  He could charge less for services.  Also when you put these 85 million Americans on insurance or government insurance, it will flood the market, there will be long waits and less service.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2011, 05:18:00 AM »
  No "death panels" HUH ?  Hitler's gang murdered 6,000,000 Jews and they never called it "murdering"...they called it the "final solution"...  Liberals and other socialists are full of "newspeak".. an artperfected by the National Socialists (Nazis)..

...and Gov. Palin made up the term 'Death Panel' to give the impression of something, which does not exist. That's a lie. You're not sayin' she's a Nazi, are you?
  '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  DELETED
 
    Yes, Sarah called govt death panels..death panels.   But as I explained, liberals, socialists and Nazis (national socialists) are adept at coming up with euphemisms to describe their own revolting practices.
  As  the Nazis called their extermination efforts the "final solution", so our liberal/socialists come up with total lies to describe their atrocities.  They would likely call a death panel...a "quality of life" panel.
 
  Need evidence ?  Look at the recent liberal/socialist efforts to place censorship upon radio & TV...
   
         Remember ?...  They called it the "fairness act".. ;)   ;D   :P
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2011, 05:33:03 AM »
Really YT !  You simply must work on your reading comprehension.

yu think I need to lern to reed better, do yo?

Quote
Yes, Sarah called govt death panels..death panels. 
Actually, she made up the term to put stink on something she doesn't like... that it was a lie, was no big inconvenience.
Quote
But as I explained, liberals, socialists and Nazis (national socialists) are adept at coming up with euphemisms to describe their own revolting practices
Kind of like Gov. Hot Legs did. See? I can reed just fyn!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2011, 05:40:32 AM »
 ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2011, 06:53:34 AM »
Oh I'm certain..Gov Hot Legs would never lie or contort facts... ..?? Just the people you don't agree/approve with do that....
..TM7

that's a fundamental characteristic of ideologues - Their Guys are truth-tellers, the Other Guys are liars...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline mannyrock

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Re: Death Panels, Obama said Sarah Palin was lying, was she?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2011, 07:08:06 AM »
 
  A couple of points to consider:
 
   1.  Someone said that health insurance companies are "monopolies."   Where in the world did you get that idea.  Anyone, you included, can go out and form a private health care company today.  It is a pure free enterprise open market business.
 
   2.  I know that the concept of death panels may upset some people, but let me tell you what I saw.  My girlfriends father was 85 years old.  He had a bad knee, that gave him pain, and he had to walk with a cane.  He didn't like it.    Somehow, he got the doctors to write him up for total knee replacement surgery, and medicare approved it.   He underwent two surgeries in Memphis, with total medical and hospital bills of $53,000!  Medicare paid for it.   He died six months later.   
 
        Does this sound like a wise use of your medicare money??   That money could have saved a few lives, or could have significantly improved the life of somebody in their late 60s.  But no, $53,000 went right down the tubes, because he didn't want to use a cane.  Would you as a taxpayer have approved these surgeries?
 
        Because of every day occurences like this, Medicare is almost totally broke.  All of the money you paid in during your life is gone.  Without big tax increases, or a huge change in the way in which the surgeries are approved based on age and fitness, there will be nothing left for you.   Zero.  This is not my opinion.  This is a fact.
 
Mannyrock