Author Topic: Karzi. If U.S. and paks go to war we will back the paks. Big surprise?? Yeah, ok  (Read 3049 times)

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Offline mdwest

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How do you know he's not a CIA agent..?  What's your source.?  If you were a CIA agent would you automatically know who else is or is not an agent.? Is there a published list of CIA agents and their assigned duties, cover jobs, and expertise.?

I would say that there is no supporting evidence for you to assume that he is or ever was..
 
by your standard, I guess it would be safe to guess that Rodney King and Angelina Jolie are CIA agents too.. Maybe Big Bird and Snuffleufogus were spooks too...
 
Offer one shred of evidence that suggests he has ever worked for an inteligence agency..
 
Ill go one further.. show me evidence that he has ever held a security clearance issued by any US governmental agency.. (a simple FOIA request will provide that for you)..
 
Turn on Fox News, CNN, or MSNBC.. former CIA, DIA, and NSA agents give interviews almost every day... once you are "out", letting people know you were once "in" is not an issue.. in fact, membership is how many/most of these people gain credibility to their positions..
 
Why isnt Tarpley (who loves to get his views and opinions into print and talked about on the news) doing the same thing?
 
The reason he isnt saying he is a former CIA agent.. is the same reason he isnt telling people he is a proctologist..
 
He isnt one..

 

Offline mdwest

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I actually look for this scenario to happen, for any particular reason. With the US having a defend treaty with Taiwan, it would be the ultimate "in yo face" provocation by china. Attacking china's "allies", defaulting on loan,forcing revalueation of the yuan......any reason.

there are economic reasons why this isnt in China's best interest (today.. who knows what the world will look like in 10 years..).. China is actually benefiting in a BIG WAY from Taiwans success.. and has been bringing Taiwanese businesses and business people into China.. this has proven mutually beneficial.. the Taiwanese gain open access to a huge new market as well as cheap labor pools, lots of open land for manufacturing, etc.. and the Chinese gain access to a highly educated, well developed, and incredibly aggressive group of business leaders to help them bring their industries and businesses into the 21st century at a much faster pace..
 
While I dont agree with all of the concepts included.. the book "The Elephant and The Dragon, the Rise of India and China and What it Means to All of US" has some pretty good insight to the current China/Taiwan relationship and how it is effecting the regional and the global economies..
 
Also, do a little research on the Fung Brothers in Taiwan.. basically the Asian version of Warren Buffet.. they, and many like them are INCREDIBLY entrenched in China..
 
Taking Taiwan and imposing Chinese rule would actually harm China right now.. not help it..
 
 

Offline BBF

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How about them grabbing Taiwan to show their displeasure!! It wouldn't take long.

................................. China could take back Taiwan anytime it wants. The US would back down in my estimation.

I agree with both points. It would be a simple and safe reaction from China if Pakistan gets attacked. After all Taiwan was/is part of China.
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Offline mdwest

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There is more evidence to suggest he is, plus his connections...and his claims...

ok.. then provide it...
 
where does he claim to be a former inteligence agent? Ive never seen it..
 
connections.. plenty of reporters (what he is) have connections.. that doesnt mean he assumes the role of the people he talks to.. he is also not a politician.. but he has connections to several of them..
 
 
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Rather ridiculous analogy...nobody has claimed King or Jolie, Big Bird are intell...nor are they purveyors of any information/disinformation that would suggest they are....(this is rule # 3 of the disinfo specialist ...offer up ridiculous analogy to derail the discussion)

nor has anyone (other than you that I can tell) claimed Tarpley is.. provide the evidence requested above, and I might change my opinion).. I agree.. Big Bird is ridiculous and unfounded.. just like Tarpley is.. that is exactly the point.. supposition, that has no facts to back it up..
 
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His numerous articles, field of expertise, family connections,

again.. looking for the evidence.. George W Bush's family is heavily connected to the CIA (his dad was the director at one time).. that doesnt make him an agent (family connections have no relevance).. writing articles after meeting with members of the inteligence community doesnt make you a member of the inteligence community either..
 
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Go ahead..it is your assertion he is not intell of some sort..prove it. I don't much care as he does present some ingtresting info-disinfo on occassion.

so if I am reading you correctly.. you are saying you cant back up your claim, and have no intention of doing so.. instead it is the obligation of people that do not believe your claim to prove otherwise?
 
if thats the case.. I say the moon is made of cheese.. its now your responsibility to prove that it isnt.. 
 
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Tarpley has appeared on these channels when the TPTB wanted to steer some agenda they used him....I'm sure he cooperated. In fact, maybe FOXy even touted him as ex-intell, don't know....BTW, is there any such thing as ex-intell..?

correct.. and at not time has he ever said "while at the CIA, my experience was..." and at no time was their a title placed under his face that said "Tarpley, former CIA agent"..
 
and YES there is such a thing as ex-intel..
 

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Doing the same what...?  Tarpley has a different 'market'?


this isnt about his market.. this is about whether or not he is ex CIA.. if he were.. there is no reason for him to not say it.. it would only BENEFIT him to say it.. if he were current CIA, he wouldnt be printing stories or doing news interviews that bring controversy or question (or even attention) to the agency..
 

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Another derailing marginalizing attempt...maybe Tarpley is active in playing 'in character'....? Don't know,,,but I consider his Pakistan analysis to be more than 20% accurate and TOTI...and that would also bolster isreali interests too.

what does this have to do with whether or not he is a former (or current) intelligence officer?
 

Offline mdwest

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There is more evidence to suggest he is, plus his connections...and his claims...

ok.. then provide it...
go to Tarpley.net

went there.. no evidence there at all.. couldnt find a single instance where he claims it, of points to anything that would suggesst he is anything other than a journalist..
 
 
where does he claim to be a former inteligence agent? Ive never seen it..
first of all I didn't make that assertion...but In would doubt he is mossad or CIA, etc. in some fashion. I aid he was a Fullbright Scholar...that's indicative, too.
 
go back and re-read your statement in post #40.. where you state "There is more evidence to suggest he is, plus his connections...and his claims...maybe he's like auxillary intell,,,and pulls a 'contract' once in a while."

connections.. plenty of reporters (what he is) have connections.. that doesnt mean he assumes the role of the people he talks to.. he is also not a politician.. but he has connections to several of them.. We'e talking about the two Tarpley women's connections here and the defence contract connections...that's also indicative...
 make the connection.. how is a defense contract connection indicative of CIA employment? traditionally the two organizations dont get along.. In my career I have managed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in DOD contracts.. that doesnt make me an intelligence agent.. ASSUMING the "womens connections" are valid.. how does that make him an employee of the CIA? If my daughter and my wife both become FBI agents, does that mean I get a badge too (or even have access to the information they possess as a result of the job they have)?
 
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Rather ridiculous analogy...nobody has claimed King or Jolie, Big Bird are intell...nor are they purveyors of any information/disinformation that would suggest they are....(this is rule # 3 of the disinfo specialist ...offer up ridiculous analogy to derail the discussion)

nor has anyone (other than you that I can tell) claimed Tarpley is.. provide the evidence requested above, and I might change my opinion).. I agree.. Big Bird is ridiculous and unfounded.. just like Tarpley is.. that is exactly the point.. supposition, that has no facts to back it up..
As I said, I do not know of any registry to look up intell agents, unless you know of one,,,,most operate quietly, unless they are talking heads on telaversion conditoning the playing field...
 
And as I said, there are plenty of ways to find out if he even had/has the ability to have even a terciary relationship.. you want to make the assertion.. but dont want to back it up with facts..
 
you also contradict yourself here.. Tarpley is by definition a talking head.. he is in the media regularly.. he publishes articles.. he publishes multiple web sites.. he gives television interviews.. etc..etc.. he is far from a quiet operator.. and has nothing to loose, and everything to gain by openly stating "when I was at the CIA, this is what I noticed..." and yet he doesnt do that.. why because he was never an employee of the CIA..

 
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His numerous articles, field of expertise, family connections,

again.. looking for the evidence.. George W Bush's family is heavily connected to the CIA (his dad was the director at one time).. that doesnt make him an agent (family connections have no relevance).. writing articles after meeting with members of the inteligence community doesnt make you a member of the inteligence community either..
Actually, it does make Bush Sr and agent of a kind....plus was that claimed prior to his presidency and prior to head agent?
 
it absolutely makes Sr. an employee of the agency.. it however does not make Jr. an employee.. being connected by a family relationship as you have stated above, does not make you a CIA agent, any more than being the son of a General makes you a General too..
 
 

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Go ahead..it is your assertion he is not intell of some sort..prove it. I don't much care as he does present some ingtresting info-disinfo on occassion.

so if I am reading you correctly.. you are saying you cant back up your claim, and have no intention of doing so.. instead it is the obligation of people that do not believe your claim to prove otherwise?
As I said not my assertion, but I wouldn't doubt Tarpley is somebody's agent...moreover,he avoids sensitive info on our super ally
 
Again, re-read your posts.. you have asserted this.. (post #40)... but provide no evidence to support it other than you think it is possible..
 
Its possible that the moon is made of cheese.. but highly improbable.. and there is no evidence to suggest that it is other than some kid decided a few hundred years ago that it looks like a block of swiss..

 
if thats the case.. I say the moon is made of cheese.. its now your responsibility to prove that it isnt.. 
 
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Tarpley has appeared on these channels when the TPTB wanted to steer some agenda they used him....I'm sure he cooperated. In fact, maybe FOXy even touted him as ex-intell, don't know....BTW, is there any such thing as ex-intell..?

correct.. and at not time has he ever said "while at the CIA, my experience was..." and at no time was their a title placed under his face that said "Tarpley, former CIA agent"..
 
and YES there is such a thing as ex-intel..
Off quoted..no such thing as 'ex-intell'....so you're saying Tarpley isn't in the 'ex' classification, yet.

lets be clear.. Im saying he isnt "ex" and never will be.. since he never was.. there is zero evidence to support any belief that is, was, or ever will be..

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Doing the same what...?  Tarpley has a different 'market'?

this isnt about his market.. this is about whether or not he is ex CIA.. if he were.. there is no reason for him to not say it.. it would only BENEFIT him to say it.. if he were current CIA, he wouldnt be printing stories or doing news interviews that bring controversy or question (or even attention) to the agency..
 

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Another derailing marginalizing attempt...maybe Tarpley is active in playing 'in character'....? Don't know,,,but I consider his Pakistan analysis to be more than 20% accurate and TOTI...and that would also bolster isreali interests too.

what does this have to do with whether or not he is a former (or current) intelligence officer?
 
Clearly evidence he operates in intell circles...that is the body of his work...he appears to be privy to inside info/disinfo... material that is not just given to average Joe on street and serves as an outlet...c'mon use your head....

there is no question that AS A JOURNALIST he has made contacts within the inteligence community and that this is a major focus/interest of his.. that however does not make him an agent.. it also does not mean he is being fed accurate information (or inaccurate for that matter).. it doesnt mean he isnt being played.. it also doesnt mean he isnt playing you (and others)..
 
he is a JOURNALIST.. journalists sell stories..
 
Now what was it former director Colby said:..."We control the media 100%''  or something like that paraphrasing...more on this later.
 
Colby was quoted as saying "The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media".. that is generally accepted as a gross overstatement even during his time.. that was also 35+ years ago.. the world has changed.. while information/disinformation campeigns that are put on by inteligence agencies certainly exist, and have varying degrees of effectiveness over time, do you really believe in a world that no longer relies on only newspapers and the 5 o'clock evening news (as it did in 1973) that any one agency (or even group of agencies) control the entire global media circus? You think the CIA controls the BBC (british), and SkyNews (French), and MSNBC (liberal), and FOX (conservative), and Al Jezeera (Multi-state Arab)? What about the Russian press? or the Belgian press? or the Chilean press? The CIA controls the internet too? and social networking? and cell phone apps? Twitter? news/media is a much different animal than it was in 1973.. but dont take my word for that.. Ask Tarpley... he is a JOURNALIST (as opposed to a CIA employee).. he will be able to tell you that..



Offline billy_56081

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Kinda funny how some guy that mighta kinda shoulda was rumored to be a cia agent. Is quoted as fact because it fits ones agenda. ROFLMAO!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline BUGEYE

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Kinda funny how some guy that mighta kinda shoulda was rumored to be a cia agent. Is quoted as fact because it fits ones agenda. ROFLMAO!
;D ;D
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Offline mdwest

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we are finally getting to some agreement points.. there are other points where we are obiously going to have to agree to disagree as well.. Ill TRY to answer some of the questions from the last response.. but honestly, our system of quoting and re-coloring is starting to get CoNfUsIng.. Im having a hard time tracking some of the points and counter points in the right order.. I might miss something... forgiveness is requested in advance if that happens..
 
On the contrary there is a lot to suggest this guy is a treasure trove of information and contacts, and would never be overlooked as an asset.Webster Griffin Tarpley – one of the most incisive critics of Anglo-American hegemony. As an activist historian he is best known for his book – George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (1992), a masterpiece of research which is still a must read. He is a 9/11 Truth Scholar and activist; AB Princeton 1966, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa; Fulbright Scholar at University of Turin, Italy; MA in humanities from Skidmore College; and Ph.D. in History from The Catholic University of America. He is fluent in Italian, German, French, Latin and Russian. A decades-long expert on international terrorism, his 1978 study for the Italian parliament “Chi ha ucciso Aldo Moro?” (Who Killed Aldo Moro?) broke open the ownership of the “Red Brigades” by NATO’s clandestine “stay-behind” networks.
I can agree with most of the first of this.. anyone that posses information or has access to it (that can be legitimized) might be seen as having value and be worth working.. getting worked over by inteligence agencies for information is not the same thing as working for inteligence agencies however.. Honestly.. he is probably a better target for the FBI.. they are going to be interested in who is leaking information to him, how they are doing it, why they are doing it, and whether or not its in the best interest of the federal government that this is allowed to continue.. Intel agencies tend to turn off leaks from the inside.. not the outside.. unless they are "using" the leak to their advantage..
 
the second half of the post I see no connection to at all.. Everyone that was a reporter in Europe in the 70's and 80's reported on the red brigades, reported on Aldo Moro, etc.. that was big news.. everyone was working contacts inside the terrorist groups, inside NATO, inside the Euopean governments, inside the US government, etc.. to get more information.. being highly educated and well connected in these organizations doesnt make him a spy.. it makes him a successful reporter.. Bill O'Riley was educated at Harvard and has contacts deep inside just about every government agency in the US.. he isnt a spy either..
 
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I suggest he is an asset alright....too much info going on with this guy to be overlooked.  Really a point of minutia who employs Tarpley...POINT is he is a dispensor of info-disinfo in the political connections field...important in the Truth research field.

An asset... maybe.. someone that has been given privy to information by others that you and I dont have access too.. probably.. someone that could just as easily be manipulated by these same people.. certainly..
 
an asset in this context is not a spy.. they are tools.. used at the will (and discretion) of the other party.. which lends the question.. if you have the potential of being manipulated.. how valuable (or accurate) is your information?
 
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Re-read Bollyn and see...why would a guy as critical as Tarpley is and a 911 Truther have contacts in the defense/MIC trade..? C'mon..!  As for yourself ...looking more like COINTELPRO...ha!... ;D ;D ;) ;D

Tarpley has contacts, because he is good at his job (whether you believe anything he writes or not.. there is no denying he has been successful). There are A LOT of people equally controversial (for other reasons) that have the same level of contacts..
 
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You know as well as I do that a FOIA request on who is or is not an intell asset will come up dry..No or denied...C'mon..! American Citizens have to deduce some of these things and not be turned around by various players..

this is one of those points where we are going to have to agree to disagree..
 
FOIA doesnt turn up everything. There are reasons to seal files (happens every day).. Whether or not someone holds or has held a security clearance however is not one of those things that gets sealed.. In fact, anyone with JPAS access (there are tens of thousands of approved Facility Security Officers both in the public and the private sector that have this) can pull you up and tell you (if they have cause/reason) if you have a clearance (or have held one recently).. Security clearances of varying degrees are carried by hundreds of thousands of people in the private sector (I hold one currently).. if you work with the federal government in any capacity that would require you to have access to classified material (all the way down to confidential and/or secret.. we're not just talking about the "heavy" stuff).. you are going to have a clearance.. if you work for ANY US Intel agency, in ANY capacity (to include a contractor that has been hired to take out the trash and sweep the floors).. you are going to have a clearance.. there will be record of this clearance that can be accessed by people that need to be able to verify whether or not you can be somewhere, see things, hear things, etc..
 
unless his name, history, and entire life is a cover story... his clearance (which doesnt exist) would be on file... and be accessible through FOIA (mine is)..

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Depends what his 'role and character' is and the script..behoves him to be outside looking in and blame CIA for stuff...and protect the zios...go figure thatseems to be what he does...Nonetheless, he is intersting in the info-disinfo field of Truth research..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. whether he is interesting or not is opinion (I dont buy into much/most of what he says.. but he is a character for sure..
 

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I have asserted that it highly possible Tarpley is an intell asset, and whether he is or not is secondary minutia...but what is important is what he says and writes...that's what is important,,,and that is what the agents assigned to his case are thinking, too.

What he says/writes is important.. to those that believe him.. which MIGHT cause interest in him (no guarantee of this) to an inteligence agency.. I would still maintain that LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies would have far more interest in him that intel group.. the intel groups might want to manipulate him.. but the likelyhood that he is on their payroll is almost non existent (no evidence to support otherwise.. only supposition).. 

 
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Well,,,Ok...not a big point...I guess we'll just have to see...maybe he's unwittingly and agent... ???

there is a chance that he is unwittingly being manipulated for someone elses purposes.. that is something we can agree on..
 

 

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Well known fact 'Journalist' is often agent cover...also well known fact jouranlists cooperate with intell....you're very stuck on what capacity Tarpley operates...why?

Journalist is actually a terrible cover.. most countries (especially closed countries) are highly suspicious of journalists (to include the legitimate ones that work for major news agencies, are publicly known, etc..).. Journalists are often USED by governments and inteligence agencies.. but they rarely (if ever) work for them.. inteligence people work in the shadows.. journalists are "in the light" all of the time.. the two fields dont mix well..
 
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35 years ago there was still competition in media..written media, research journalist actually existed once...Now,.96% of media is owned by 6 large families in the USA.. From Colby's time and statement things have gotten worse..not better...This is a known fact.

whose fact?
 
it really depends on your perspective.. are most major city newspapers owned by a small group of companies/people.. absolutely..
 
did you have access to what local newspapers in Afghanistan were reporting on a daily basis 35 years ago? or the ability to watch German evening news in streaming video at your leisure? Could you get "tweets" minute by minute from foreign journalists working in Egypt during the Arab Spring? or could you access a student who is attending school at NYU's blog that happens to be living in an apartment 3 blocks up from the OWS demonstrations 35 years ago?
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Internet is still only avenue of getting impartial news and information. There is a world information blackout and the real war is for the control of your mind...that's a fact...

that has been the case for generations long before you and I ever appeared on earth.. and will continue to be for generations to come.. this is nothing new.. man has been manipulating man for his own self gain since the dawn of time.. plenty of stories dating as far back as the Old Testiment and through every country's history on earth to verify that.. this is not going to change anytime soon..
 
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Internet alter news is still allowed for a while longer...internet and cell phone routing all goes thru where...alogrythm mining the rule....all internet and social media exchanges are logged somewhere and retrrievable...regs in palce for immediate shutdown and 'terorist' defined....face it--this ain't the America you grew up in!

thats something else we can agree on.. this definately isnt the same country it was 50 years ago..
 
what I would add is it wasnt the same country 50 years ago that it was 100 years ago.. and it wasnt the same country 100 years ago that it was 200 years ago.. things are in constant change.. and always will be.. we get the government we deserve (we elect them).. we live to the standards that we accept..
 
 
 

Offline BBF

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there are economic reasons why this isn't in China's best interest (today.. who knows what the world will look like in 10 years..).. China is actually benefiting in a BIG WAY from Taiwan's success.. and has been bringing Taiwanese businesses and business people into China.. .........................
 
................................................
 
Taking Taiwan and imposing Chinese rule would actually harm China right now.. not help it..

 
There is not nothing to prevent Beijing after the takeover to run all of Taiwan as another Shanghai style economic zone.
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Offline mdwest

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The above quote is pretty much verbatim from Tarpley.net...Webster's bio. If the FBI or any of the alphabets wanted to shut down Tarpley's dissemination outfit..they would have yesterday..easily done by pressuring the Tarpley women in some shketcy DoD/foreign business, or any other means. 

Exactly the point..this is more evidence that he is NOT an agent or an employee of the federal govt. If he were, he would have been shut down (and jailed) a long time ago. The FBI does not operate under the same set of rules as the inteligence community, and in many ways is charged with keeping them in check (its against the law for them to operate inside the US, spy against US citizens, etc..)
 
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The known budget for intell in the USA is 60-90 billion dollars/yr..some sources say double that if all 'black sources' are accounted for..drugs, guns, contracts, various business stuff, etc., etc.  Most Americans think that all the approx. 14 intell agencies are information gathering and analysis....which in my opinion is far from the case...Most of their activity is information disemination , or should I say disinfo disemination, too.... ::) ...Conditioning the playing field so to speak. In fact, I've read 80% of intell budgets is spent on info-disinfo disemination and mind and control paradigms...such as entering websites and chat rooms to steer the discussion, or mass media projection. No...I am not about to document this..it is available for those who want to look and see.

unlike others, I have been trying very hard not to throw the tin-foil hat on you and actually have a reasonable/rational dissertation on the subject (which has gotten way off the original topic). This is more spouting of "facts" that cant be substantiated.
 
There are 16 agencies within the federal government (this is an exact number, not an "approximate" 14) dedicated to the gathering of inteligence. Their combined budgets (this is published by the federal government.. nothing to estimate here) have exceeded $80M in both 2010 and 2011.
 
CREDIBLE sources will openly admit that there is additional money that is floated into the intel community from other pots ("black" or otherwise...).. this is common practice among ALL federal agencies due to mission overlap, the "whole of government" concept that has been getting pushed for several years now, and a number of other factors.. for example.. Plan Merida (a $400M+ State Department program that targets drug related issues in Mexico and other latin american countries) "gave" a good chunk of money to the Defense Department a few years back in order to purchase UH60 Helicopters to support their program. This money wasnt budgeted by DOD.. it wasnt theirs.. it ended up in their coffers however (and promptly got spent to transfer the helos). It was budgeted by DOS though and shows up clearly on their books. Is some of the money that goes into our intelligence agencies classified? Of course. By design it has to be. These "black" budgets do however have congressional oversight, and if/when a procurement comes to light where congress wasnt fully aware, heads roll (anyone remember Iran-Contra?)... No one credible however states (again, if you think otherwise.. bring the evidence..) that the intel "black" budget is even close to equivalent of the public budget (in fact, that is almost a business impossibility, and completely ridiculous to even assume), or that it is funded by drugs, guns, and/or other nefarious means.. does that mean there havent been some unscrupulous people that have worked in the intelligence community that havent broken the rules, havent lied, or havent done things they shouldnt have.. absolutely not.. there certainly are bad people working within the agencies..
 
that said, there are also bad people working at K-mart that break rules, lie, and do things they shouldnt have.. sadly, it is the nature of people..
 
for you to assume that the intel community is any worse than any one else (federal government or private sector..) without proving anything other than an opinion (not based on fact), reeks of reynolds wrap..

 
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Post is from Trarpley.net as I said...When it comes to 'market' info-disinfo we have two genral areas...For example, we have the FOXy News market often relied on forum members here...that info dissemination market relys on eye candy and reports from real ex.. ;)  ex-CIA agents..that market buys into that hype....when it comes to command and control of the alter info desimination,,that market can't rely on eye candy as much and not one establishment type voices who would be scoffed....they need Tarpley type guys to work this market.  Leaks are the name of the game. Remember, The Real War is for Control for Your Mind; that and to keep you away from things that really should matter to you as an American Citizen...

again, opinions that you present as fact (without substantiating them). you presume one of the prime objectives of the government is to keep you away from things that should matter to american citizens.. but offer no proof of that.. you also presume that what is important to you as an american citizen is the same thing that is important to others..
 
personally I think most americans are perfectly happy being sheep.. there is no reason to try to control their mind or lure them away from whats important.. they go willingly.. so why dedicate billions of dollars in resources, and develop elaborate schemes that would require the involvement of tens of thousands of people (who all dedicate their lives to making sure YOU dont know the truth..) when the truth is most people dont require that type of activity to be influenced, and YOU individually arent really important enough as an indivdual to matter?
 
as for market disinformation being limited to two primary areas.. again.. thats an individuals opinion, not substantiated by fact..
 

 
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Given Tarpley's presence, whereforall, treasure trove of info-disinfo, his women's 'jobs'.. ;) ...likely more than just an asse...a player more likely.

ok.. so we are back at Tarpley really is a CIA agent again? lets go back to the original argument then.. show one reasonable piece of evidence that would substantiate that other than your opinion, which so far has not been even able to be presented as logical, much less factual..
 
 
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911 Truthers do not have dependents or spouses working in sensitve DoD interanational weapons business..that's my assumption...re-read Bollyn.

pretty big assumption.. and a wrong one..
 
I know plenty of people working on sensitive (often highly  classified) projects who have family members that are felons, family members that are residents of mental hospitals, etc..
 
when you get a clearance, YOU are the person being investigated.. not your father or your son.. who and what they are is of no relevance or consequence..
 
how you manage your relationship with people (family, friends, business associates, etc..) is relevant..
 
but you are not held accountable just because you fathered a turd, or were fathered by one..
 
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You seem to know alot about this process..perhaps you can research Tarpley. For rank and file technicians and clerks, janitors, etc..this might work. but I consider it a false trail...depending who we are talking about there's no tracks from a horse of different color...Bollyn researched Tarpley and came to his conclusions based on other evidence. Perhaps I could call Scooter Libby to find out if Tarpley is intell or not... ;D

you consider it a false trail based on what personal experience or presented evidence? more hypothesis based on a guess as opposed to facts.
 
yes.. I know quite a bit about the process.. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE as someone that currently holds a security clearance, and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE as someone who used to manage clearances for a company that provides services to the government tells me that you are wrong.
 
Again, you can back up (or attempt to) your stated "facts" (which are opinions, and not in reality facts at all) by submitting a FOIA. You made the statement. You do the work. Prove your point. Show us that you are right. Dont spout off nonsense then claim it is someone elses responsibility to prove you wrong..
 
I go back to my original statement.. if that is your standard.. then I say the moon is made of Cheese (probably havarti..).. now its YOUR responsibility to prove otherwise..
 
 
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Different market in the scheme of things..Tarpley fills a very important niche...perhaps keep the heat off the real perps and maintain cover..

important is a relative term.. he fills an important niche to you.. but the majority of people would say he is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things.. he doesnt have the audience of other journalists that have similar credentials and experience.. I'd even go so far as to guess that you and I are probably the only two people reading this thread that really know much about him at all.. Glenn Beck is every bit as controversial as Tarpley (and every bit as much a CIA employee (not one)).. he is name and face recognizable to the vast majority of americans.. whether you agree with him or not.. HE is actually important (his voice reaches lots of people, and large groups of people respond to his reports).. Tarpleys audience is very limited by comparrison.. (this is only one example.. there are obviously a WHOLE LOT of other journalists that have substantially more power, influence, etc..)..
 
youre also back to making assumptions without substantiating by fact "perhaps keep the heat off..." just brings back the reynolds wrap feeling.. if you actually want anyone to read anything you post more than once, you would be better served providing personal experience and/or evidence when you make claims..

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Yes, that is agreed..he's in the system...but how deep? we will just have to wait and see....perhaps someday all things will be brought into the Light.

not quite tracking you here.. I agree that as a journalist, he has made connections within the US government and in private enterprise gives him the ability to obtain information that the common man typically can not. I do not agree however that he is "in" the government system at all (other than by the same means that all other journalists are).
 

 
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So they're suspicous...so what? That's a good thing...you going to leak or give info-disinfo to somebody not suspicious..?

keep things in context. you are claiming he is an asset/agent (depending on which post we are talking about). if this were the case, he would be completely ineffective living a life long cover as a very public journalist.
 
if he is nothing more than a member of the media that the US government knows they can feed information to (what I have asserted all along) then you are right... "so what" is the correct response..
 
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Well know fact....perhaps I can find and old post in the TLC forum describing this lockdown on real journalism


it is a well known fact that most of the major newspapers and television news programs are owned by a small number of corporations and conglomerates.. it is however NOT a well known fact that things are now "worse, not better" regarding the media and how people obtain information.. that is an OPINION.. and something you have been guilty of numerous times in this debate (constantly presenting your opinion on things with no substantiating facts or evidence). I would say (and this is my opinion) that most people think the internet and international television (access to BBC, SkyNews, Al Jezera, and anything else you want) is/was a game changer and now they have acess to alternative information sources, that the days of having 3 choices (ABC, CBS, and NBA) for an evening news program and a single local newpaper are long gone.. and that things are substantially better..
 
 
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New Covenant canceled all this deception--made war extinct---now back and same perps...The Ages are changing again...perps are being outed.  Danger is on their way out of the village they burn the whole place down...

I have no idea what your point is other than to rant..
 
[quote}Wel yeah Ok...but Truth is Truth...indivisible...and is the only way to honr God...evrything else is vanity/narcisstism/psychopathetic....TM7

 
youre right.. truth is truth..
 
I do think however if you are going to go on and say truth is the only way to honor God.. that perhaps you should make sure you have facts and evidence to support your "truth" before you spout it.. otherwise it is nothing more than the vane/narcissistic/psychopathetic musings of yet another person that wants to scream, shout, and obtain attention.. but can not offer to anyone that "truth" is actually being relayed.
 
I rely on faith in my relationship with God..
 
my relationships with man require that he substantiates his claims of "truth" (you dont get the same consideration that God gets)..
 
 


Offline BUGEYE

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mdwest, this has really been refreshing.  most people at this site, I would guess, think along the same lines as you do.  I am not able to put it in writing as eloquently as yourself.  I hope you stick around and bring some common sense to some theories.
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Offline billy_56081

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Mdwest, wasn't to long ago, old TM was spouting about how Karzi was some kinda NWO Neocon zionis puppet, he just spews whatever fits his sgenda, no truth or fact to it what so ever. Kinda becoming the humor caricature of GBO.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline mdwest

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sooo... to summarize about 90% of your last post.. what you are saying is you are entitled to your opinion, and there is no reason for you to back up any of your assumptions or thoughts with actual evidence or fact?

If thats the case.. I would have to agree with you.. everyone (you included) is entitled to an opinion..
 
remember that opinions are like buttholes though..
 
everyone has one...
 
some just stink alot more than others..  ;)
 
 

 
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You have a monopoly on Truth or facts, exalted from on high, or closer to God?...God give you the gift of discerning opinion from facts.?

nope.. no one ever said that.. what has been said is that you want to present opinions as facts (many of which you now admit are opinions), state they are "truths", but offer nothing to substantiate them..
 
I'm all ears (eyes).. if you have proof.. offer it up.. convince me that your opinions are in FACT the truth.. show me the evidence..
 
dont stray from the center of the subject.. YOU claim Tarpley is a CIA agent (Tarpley doesnt, no one credible claims he is, there are no indicators that show he might be.. but YOU claim it.. based on your assumptions about how the world is, rather than providing facts that show otherwise...  even the guy that originally made the incorrect statement, Lost Farmboy, has abandoned this thread and hasnt commented on it any further).. that is the center of this debate.. not whether or not Rupert Murdoch is corrupt.. not whether or not the US government bombed the WTC.. not whether or not Jesus was the Messiah.. or anything else you can come up with...
 
stay focused.. YOU CLAIM THAT TARPLEY IS A CIA AGENT.. every opinion you have offered (not fact) to try to substantiate that claim has been shot down.. your arguments bear no fruit...
 
I thought I made it clear in the last post.. God gets faith.. you dont..
 
Make it stick.. bring the proof.. (or at least one shred of evidence viable enough to make it even a slight possibility).. you have failed to do so, so far..


Offline billy_56081

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Mdwest an unsubstantiated rumor holds more weight with the tinfoilers than all the facts and evidence combined as long as it fits their agenda.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

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sooo... to summarize about 90% of your last post.. what you are saying is you are entitled to your opinion, and there is no reason for you to back up any of your assumptions or thoughts with actual evidence or fact?


 
MDWEST. You're learning. You mean you actually read all of that?? POWDERMAN.  :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Anyone with any sense would have seen from the first that the invasion of Afghanistan (and Iraq) was a total waste of lives and money and would have no lasting benefit to the U.S., if any.

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rather than go to war, I would have my CIA partner with the Mossad and start bringing me heads to line up on the pier in NY harbor.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Online nw_hunter

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sooo... to summarize about 90% of your last post.. what you are saying is you are entitled to your opinion, and there is no reason for you to back up any of your assumptions or thoughts with actual evidence or fact?
No that's not what I said...that's what your saying....in effort to discredit this discusion and my opinion...Must be we're flying directly over the target zone... ;) very important to you for some reason..
If thats the case.. I would have to agree with you.. everyone (you included) is entitled to an opinion..You too, I'd like to see some of your assertions, facts, and opinions backed up, too. Should be easy since you're an 'expert'. Feel free to start with my list of inquiries above.
 
remember that opinions are like buttholes though..
 
everyone has one...
 
some just stink alot more than others..  ;)
Yeah that's cool.. :-[ ::) ...I suppose that its the ones that don't stink that sneak up on you and you should watch out for..!
 
 

 
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You have a monopoly on Truth or facts, exalted from on high, or closer to God?...God give you the gift of discerning opinion from facts.?

nope.. no one ever said that.. what has been said is that you want to present opinions as facts (many of which you now admit are opinions), state they are "truths", but offer nothing to substantiate them..That's what your saying...I never said that. Your attitude and claimed expertise implied this 'on high' credibilty,,upon closer inspection doesn't seem so credible or on high...When I get a chance I will get down my Who's Who in Intell and dust it off and look up Tarpley...Meanwhile, You place a demand to look up facts on a guy who may be under cover....make a ridiculous vain demand to do a FOIA on him...not reality based...we must go on opinions, circumstantial evidence and observations and what he does; and Yes some facts...Funny thing this is what Intell Agencies do alot of the time..that is when they aren't diseminating info-disinfo and leaks. ::) ..So yeah,,, in Tarpley's case his theme is to blame USA and CIA, that 911 was totally inside job...these are a FACTs..I'm going to file this away for future reference if you don't mind...
 
I'm all ears (eyes).. if you have proof.. offer it up.. convince me that your opinions are in FACT the truth.. show me the evidence..
 You're the fact man...show us what you got..if it doesn't make sense or seems like BS compared to opinions,observations, common knowledge, logic....too bad. Looking forward to your experise on questions posed in last post
dont stray from the center of the subject.. YOU claim Tarpley is a CIA agent (Tarpley doesnt, no one credible claims he is, there are no indicators that show he might be.. but YOU claim it.. based on your assumptions about how the world is, rather than providing facts that show otherwise...  even the guy that originally made the incorrect statement, Lost Farmboy, has abandoned this thread and hasnt commented on it any further).. that is the center of this debate.. not whether or not Rupert Murdoch is corrupt.. not whether or not the US government bombed the WTC.. not whether or not Jesus was the Messiah.. or anything else you can come up with...In typical fashion your atrributing a post to me I didn't make..I didn't originally claim he was a CIA Agent, maybe he's NSA..what I said to soembody's poste was, Yes, and a Fullbright Scholar....It was my opinion that he acts, behaves, has relatives in sensitve positions, avoids certain topics, and dismenates a certain brand of information.....these are actually facts...not my fault you lack or deny synthesis to put it all together...Not my Cross to bear...yours.
 
stay focused.. YOU CLAIM THAT TARPLEY IS A CIA AGENT.. every opinion you have offered (not fact) to try to substantiate that claim has been shot down.. your arguments bear no fruit...see just above please.. ::)
 
I thought I made it clear in the last post.. God gets faith.. you dont..Don't care..don't need you faith, don't need your seal, not important to me in the end...what should be clear to readers is you sir, appear to be  a professinal obfuscator..
 
Make it stick.. bring the proof.. (or at least one shred of evidence viable enough to make it even a slight possibility).. you have failed to do so, so far..when flying over the target zone that's when the real flak starts...old WW2 pilot lament...oh so true, too..that's a fact!
 
 
..TM7 





GOOD GRIEF! YOU TWO MUST LOVE THE SOUND OF YOUR FINGERS STRIKING THE KEYS!!

If you want to continue this long winded BS rant, call each other on a land line and have at it.
This thing has gone on too long.......ENOUGH! I think you both hate Moderators ::)
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.