Author Topic: New 44mag Handi aka "Devil rifle" range report (UPDATED) (Read 8653 times)

45-70.gov · « **Reply #30 on:** November 03, 2011, 12:07:17 PM »

i have several 44 mag handis

2 new ones have only shoot 280 grain plain base WLF from LBT
SIZED .430 up till recently.......now sized to .431
one has a 2.5 X 10 ncstar.....the other a busnell trs-25 red dot
both guns shoot good.........[not my ar or 308 bolt tho]

qne old 44 with the overbore thing

some old 300 horndy shoot ok....original open sights so hard to tell....i am a scope guy
my cast WFN would actually tumble
now they are sized to .431 and shoot great

switch to the SKINNER lo-pro sight
and getting 4 inch groups at 100 yards......

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 03, 2011, 12:39:25 PM »

4" group at 100 yards with iron sights sounds pretty good to me, but I have a hard time getting the deer to stand still long enough for me to paint a bullseye on their shoulder, so that ought to work just fine.

ratdog · « **Reply #32 on:** November 03, 2011, 07:44:47 PM »

i was reading on the web the other night that h@r doesn't stress relieve there barrels. you can tell by taking just the barrel holding it by the muzzel with two fingers then striking it with a screw driver handle if it rings its stress relieved. i tried this and all mine go thud.could this be why handy's are heat sensitive ?

geezerbiker · « **Reply #33 on:** November 03, 2011, 07:57:08 PM »

Holding it by 2 fingers would still be enough to quell the vibrations that would make it ring. You can hang a wire coat hanger from a string and make it ring when stuck so I doubt this is a valid test...

Tony

gcrank1 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 04, 2011, 03:55:48 AM »

The 'ring test' for dbl. barrel shotguns is to hook the barrel underlug over your finger (at that barrel pivot) and strike. A true ring tells you the solder holding the barrels together isnt bad.
I really dont think this ring test on a single barrel will tell you if it is 'stress relieved', but I could be wrong. I think it would be more indicative of the steel alloy.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** November 04, 2011, 04:27:42 AM »

Quote from: ratdog on November 03, 2011, 07:44:47 PM

i was reading on the web the other night that h@r doesn't stress relieve there barrels. you can tell by taking just the barrel holding it by the muzzel with two fingers then striking it with a screw driver handle if it rings its stress relieved. i tried this and all mine go thud.could this be why handy's are heat sensitive ?

I did it on several barrels I have that don't have scopes mounted, hung by paracord and struck with a wood dowel they all rang like a bell! But I don't think it has anything to do with stress relieving, just the resonance of the metal.

Tim

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #36 on:** November 04, 2011, 09:57:07 AM »

My 44 Mag Handi has been back to H & R 4 times and has the fourth barrel on it. I have tried all the tricks each time and nothing worked. I only got it back a week or so ago. It is prepped and scoped, but I have not yet made it to the range.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 04, 2011, 12:05:41 PM »

Wow!...Four times?

I think I would have just asked for another caliber barrel to be sent back. With me, I think it would be three strikes and your out!

30-30 would be my choice after beating myself to death with those 44 problems.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #38 on:** November 04, 2011, 12:42:06 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo47 on November 04, 2011, 12:05:41 PM

Wow!...Four times?

I think I would have just asked for another caliber barrel to be sent back. With me, I think it would be three strikes and your out!

30-30 would be my choice after beating myself to death with those 44 problems.

I agree, you have FAR more patience than I...

CW

manatee1947 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 04, 2011, 02:50:21 PM »

The way to go would be to just go ahead with the 444 and download. I bought mine to shoot cast bullets, and it works very well. You can use a 250 gr cast bullet with 15-18 gr of Blue Dot, or 20-22 grains of 2400 and stay way below the pressures you are talking about with your 44mag. That goes through a large whitetail like it was not there. the 20/ 2400 shoots at 1.75" @ 75 yards in mine.

slayer · « **Reply #40 on:** November 04, 2011, 05:31:18 PM »

Quote from: Singlebarrel on November 04, 2011, 09:57:07 AM

My 44 Mag Handi has been back to H & R 4 times and has the fourth barrel on it. I have tried all the tricks each time and nothing worked. I only got it back a week or so ago. It is prepped and scoped, but I have not yet made it to the range.

Wow, that makes me nervous. I just put a new H&R .44 mag Trapper on layaway. I hope it shoots good. Barrels should rarely ever have too be sent back to a manufacturer, that`s just bad quality control if that`s the case.

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #41 on:** November 05, 2011, 08:46:57 AM »

I originally got the 44 Mag for primative weapon season. My 45-70s recoil was really bad with the Hornady LE although they shot really well. While I have been fighting with the 44 Mag for the past two years plus, I discovered that the Remington 405 grain factory loads at around 1300 plus fps shoot well in my 45-70 and the recoil is not at all bad. In fact they are kind of fun to shoot and I am really recoil sensitive due to old injuries.

So, I use the 45-70 with the low recoil loads to hunt with and hope I can eventually get a 44 Mag that will shoot. The 44 Mag would make a great critter gun on the river. Right now I use a 223 Handi barrell on my 45-70 receiver for that. Works fine on varments, but there are times when I wish I had less range and a bigger bullet.

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #42 on:** November 05, 2011, 09:05:04 AM »

Actually, the third time around they replaced the entire rifle. It shot no better so I tried the fourth time. I will admit to a little impatience. If this one does not work I would like to get my money back, but do not know if they would go for that after so long. Maybe this one will shoot.

I think it is quality control and I am getting bad barrels. My older handis shoot very well. Several years ago a local shop had the 45-70s with the synthetic stocks on sale for $139. I bought two. Both are tack drivers.

FYI, the local dealers say I am the only person they have talked to that has had a handi problem. They claim to sell them by the hundreds. Who knows. I hope to get to the range tomorrow or Monday. The proof is in the puffin.

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2011, 11:51:59 AM »

I have a new microgroove 44mag it does not shoot very well with factory bullets. i want a 44 mag, but i want one that will shoot near moa at 100yards. what are the chances of buying a new 44 mag Handi that will shoot better than the one i have? i am reloading over size cast bullets and it shoots these very well at 50 yds but not so good at 100yds.
are the CVA and Rossi single shots more accurate than the handis in 44 mag ?
is there any other brand that has better accuracy ?
it seems that some 44mag handis have issues and others don't??
Bull

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:07:46 PM »

It would be helpful if you gave the serial number prefix. 44 Mags prior to 2007 had larger bores. It is some thing that can be worked around, but you need to know so you know what direction to go.

BTW you should be able to keep it under 2" at 100 yards with out trying too hard. It is not unusual to get 1" groups. This was 3 shots at 50 yards with factory Winchester White box Solid point 245 grain - about 1"

Good Luck and Good Shooting

quickdtoo · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:55:20 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on October 27, 2011, 08:37:22 AM

If it won't shoot 2" or less 3-shot groups at 100yds with factory ammo, it may need to go back to H&R for repair, I'd make sure you're covering all the details in the Handi Basics sticky first tho, oil on the latch or shelf alone can cause terrible accuracy, if you've covered those already, call em, let em know what's happening, ask for a return shipping label to cover shipping and send it in for repair.

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

Tim

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2011, 01:11:56 PM »

i bought the rifle in late september 2011. it is black plastic with the pictinny rail. it is not some old stock from a shelf in a warehouse. the SN is CAC3032xx. please advise because I slugged the bore and it is .431ish. i shot .434cast in it fairly accurately at 50 yds-1-1.5 groups off the bench. i loaned it to a friend for his wife to hunt with as he wanted to try a 44 mag for her for Christmas. if he wants it i may sell it and roll the dice on a new 44mag handi or some other brand.
would a 444 marlin handi be more accurate or have less accuracy isssues than the 44mag handi??
BTW i have tried most everything on the stickys to get it to shoot better!tried hundreds of reloads and factory ammo.only the 265 g FTP and the .434 cast bullets shootin it accurately about 2moa.at 50 yds, at 100it is large groups.
i find keeping the oil off the latch and other idiocyncracies a PIA!!
Bull

quickdtoo · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2011, 01:34:15 PM »

.431" is well within SAAMI specs for the 44mag rifle, either send it in for repair or work on getting a different rifle, the 444 Handi is exceptionally accurate as is the 45-70, both have much faster twists which helps with the heavier(longer) bullets, 1:20" compared to the 1:38" of the 44mag, but they also cost a bit more because they come on SB2 rifle frames. Keeping the latch and shelf dry isn't hard to do, just being aware of it is the biggest factor, ignoring it will cause problems tho.

Tim

thejanitor · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2011, 01:51:40 PM »

Bull Nutia- I realize you have tried a lot. But if it is that new, and shoots that bad, Quick reposted what you may WANT to do. If you want to keep it and keep beating a dead horse then keep trying. But before the 2 yr mark comes you may want to send it back to the factory. And after they test it and work on it- it will either shoot or it won't then you can be upset that you wasted money on a gun from a company that won't fix it..., but if you have a lemon and you choose not to send it back they can't make good on the 2" at 100 guarentee. Your choice.
But you are asking someone to tell you what to do, you tried all you can. I would call and get the ball rolling to send it in, they will do all they can to make it within their tolerances if you send it in before the deadline date.
If you don't tell them you have a problem they can't help. Any time I have PMd Brian56 he has replied very nicely and answered my question. I hope you get it figured out, but if you can't there truely may be something wrong and just because there are several 44 owners who don't own tack drivers doesn't mean the next one you have put on won't be....
Please contact the company, if you don't, they don't know about the problem.
Give the company a chance to do what they do. You are a customer and they want you to be satisfied with their product.
OK I'm off my soap box now. thejanitor

bikerbeans · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:56:04 PM »

+1 on going the 444M route. I have set up three of them in the last year and all are MOA guns @ 100 yards with cast gas checked lead. All three are of Illion, NY manufacture with extractors. I only slugged the first barrel and I got .4295". I am shooting .430" Lyman devastor HPGCs, with an as cast weight of around 270 grains, .430" 310 grain Oregon Trail True Cast WNFPGCs and 355 grain BTB @ .432". All do very well at velocities from 1,500 to 1,850 FPS, using I3031, H4895 or I4350. I have not tried to push these bullets to maximum velocity. It would be very easy, if you reload, to slow these down to 44 Mag velocities.

BB

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2011, 03:15:30 PM »

Wow Tim you have some accurate 44mag and 444marlin handis, i lust for accuracy like that. if my friend doesn't purchase my "devil rifle" i will send it back. May send it back anyway) i really like the 44mag. but a buddy has a 444marlin single shot CVA and it is a near tack driver. that is why i asked. i have a bunch of 444marlin brass so all i would need is a set of dies. unfortunately that 444 marlin gave him 2 "weatherby eyebrows" witrh hornaday ammo!! but i could fix that with some milder reloads.
i am definitley getting hooked by the single shot bug!! i like them if they are accurate!
to the janitor--I hear ya friend, i get the message thanks for responding.
Bull

thejanitor · « **Reply #51 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:14:50 PM »

Bull- it read kind of harsh... Sorry, but please don't miss your window of opportunity to get it worked on at the factory. thejanitor

keith44 · « **Reply #52 on:** November 23, 2011, 08:59:37 PM »

I do not tolerate inaccurate guns (handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc) of any price or configuration. I am seeing a bit of a pattern here though. The "Micro groove" barrel seems to be the issue, rather than caliber selection. Micro-groove barrels (aka Marlin 336 30-30) have a reputation for being either really really accurate, or best used as tomato stakes. It does not seem to matter what caliber, or what lot run. The micro groove method of rifling works well most of the time, but every once in a while you just can't make one shoot. Try one more then I'd demand satisfaction.

My traditional rifled barrel shot this group at 55 yards with open (factory) sights

keith44 · « **Reply #53 on:** November 23, 2011, 09:05:04 PM »

To be fair these were also fired at the same 55 yards, with the same open sights. This is a factory fitted .44 Mag barrel on a 45-70 SB-2 frame

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #54 on:** November 24, 2011, 12:06:14 AM »

Wow again traditional rifling looks like the way to go!! good groups with open sites. my groups are not too much better than that but with a scope off sand bags at 50 yds! i think I am sending this devil rifle back to the factroy to see what brian can do for me. I like 44mag for many reasons. i don't think i want the recoil of a 444 or 45-70 nor do i need that extra range in my LA hardwoods!!

Bull

ratdog · « **Reply #55 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:27:22 PM »

bull you got more patients than me buddy.

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #56 on:** November 30, 2011, 03:24:06 AM »

I contacted Brian56 with REM, he requested that i send in my entire rifle in for a barrel replacement.

Big +1 to Brian56. I will do after the primitive season is over in a few weeks.

I also must confess i am getting an uncontrollable urge and may be becoming a " handi aholic" I may just ask Brian to fit a new 7mm08 barrel to my frame along with the 44mag barrel!!

How has the accuracy been with the7mm08 handis in general???

Bull

thejanitor · « **Reply #57 on:** November 30, 2011, 04:33:11 AM »

I have two rifles with synthetic stocks and light profile barrels I use two orings on. It is the only way to keep them from touching either side of the barrel channel. Something about the shape of the dimple around the barrel stud screw moulding in the plastic.... Didn't read it anywhere just did it and it shot better so left it that way.
And the 7-08 I started with shot 2 inch groups for 5+ years, then I read here people like H4350 so tried it now all three of our 7-08s shoot 3/4 inch to 1 1/4 inch at 100 depending on conditions, but my biggest problem was the powder choice. thejanitor

quickdtoo · « **Reply #58 on:** November 30, 2011, 04:52:30 AM »

Quote from: Bull Nutria on November 30, 2011, 03:24:06 AM

I also must confess i am getting an uncontrollable urge and may be becoming a " handi aholic" I may just ask Brian to fit a new 7mm08 barrel to my frame along with the 44mag barrel!!

From your previous posts, your rifle is a new SB1 44mag which can't be fitted with any other rifle barrels, there will be a statement to that effect on the right side of the frame. If it is an SB1, you'll have to acquire and SB2 rifle frame made 1999 or later to get a rifle barrel fitted, lots of them sold in the H&R classifieds here.

Tim

ratdog · « **Reply #59 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:11:51 AM »

that 44 should shoot good right out of the box all that chasing groups is unacceptable my new 44 barrel shoots a 1'' group at 50 yards my 357 is the same .it would shoot 38 specials fair put a 357 in no good my black hawk ruger pistol shot a whole much more accurate.i would send your devil rifle back for a new barrel i did mine zero problems now. i left rem a nice note stating i did not want this barrel back. they fixed it right they fit a 44 mag barrel to. fit is perfect. nice and snug.if you get a bad barrel you will know after a few different ammo's