Author Topic: New 44mag Handi aka "Devil rifle" range report (UPDATED) (Read 8659 times)

blind ear · « **Reply #60 on:** November 30, 2011, 08:40:16 AM »

Quote from: ratdog on November 30, 2011, 05:11:51 AM

that 44 should shoot good right out of the box all that chasing groups is unacceptable my new 44 barrel shoots a 1'' group at 50 yards my 357 is the same .it would shoot 38 specials fair put a 357 in no good my black hawk ruger pistol shot a whole much more accurate.i would send your devil rifle back for a new barrel i did mine zero problems now. i left rem a nice note stating i did not want this barrel back. they fixed it right they fit a 44 mag barrel to. fit is perfect. nice and snug.if you get a bad barrel you will know after a few different ammo's

I did the same with a 500 s&w barrel. They fitted a 357 barrel as I requested since the 500 was bad. new 357 shoots great and i am happy that i took the time to do the shipping. ear

ratdog · « **Reply #61 on:** November 30, 2011, 01:58:59 PM »

completely happy with my 44mag really shoots good 1-1/2 inch groups 50 yards easy.my 223 shorty is shooting 1/2''groups at 50 yards on factory loads my reloads even better can not complain . storm was moving in got cold fast not that much time to shot but got out any way.

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #62 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:03:55 AM »

as many of you may recall, Last fall i bought subject rifle, could not get it to group reasonably. spent a pile of money on factory bullets and reloads. Decided to send her back to REM. Brian 76 shipped her back after a couple of weeks with a new barrel!

thanks Brian for the excellent warranty work and fast turn around.,

Stand by for a range report--may be a few weeks, as i have a weeding to attend this weekend.

Bull

LedLobber · « **Reply #63 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:02:58 PM »

Looking forward to the range report!

ratdog · « **Reply #64 on:** February 24, 2012, 12:57:35 AM »

spent a lot of time on my 357 as you after a while it sucked sent mine back to remington got a 44 barrel they are shooters now the accuracy was totally un acceptable. barrel was junk.remy fixed it right.

jpshaw · « **Reply #65 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:32:26 AM »

I hope for the best in your quest for some accuracy. I have an older (pre 2007) .44 that doesn't want to play right either. My next attempt will be to get some Montana NEI252 which is a 240 grain cast that can be sized between .430 to .433. The 240 grain weight shouldn't push the 1/38" twist at all and sized to .433 should (hopefully) fix the problem.

Klahtax · « **Reply #66 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:37:24 AM »

I have 2 .44mags that shoot right at 1" groups @100 yards using 125gr. FTX.
Both rifles groups came in when I seated the bullet .015 off the lands.
My OAL of the round is:1.822" and looks weird I will admit because I am seated way behind the crimp ring but who cares, at 1" groups they can look as weird as they want.lol
Using 24 grains of 296 powder. Never ran it thru the chronograph because the rifles are my daughters and wife's and they are limited to 100 yard hunting shots so no need to know the speed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #67 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:44:20 AM »

Quote from: Klahtax on February 24, 2012, 05:37:24 AM

I have 2 .44mags that shoot right at 1" groups @100 yards using 125gr. FTX.

You mean 225gr FTX, don't ya!

Mine shot the 225gr FTX ammo real good before it became a 445 Supermag, now it shoots 265gr FTX handloads just as well.

Tim

Txdrmy Man · « **Reply #68 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:59:11 AM »

Hey Bull, I just found this site recently and was intriguied by your problem. I bought one for my wife and it turned out to be just like yours. I just shipped it back to rem. I'm waiting to see how yours does now since I'm in the same boat. I'll post
how mine does when I get it back and run some rounds through it. Good Luck.

Klahtax · « **Reply #69 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:47:57 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 24, 2012, 05:44:20 AM

Quote from: Klahtax on February 24, 2012, 05:37:24 AM
I have 2 .44mags that shoot right at 1" groups @100 yards using 125gr. FTX.

You mean 225gr FTX, don't ya! Mine shot the 225gr FTX ammo real good before it became a 445 Supermag, now it shoots 265gr FTX handloads just as well.

Tim

Yep! meant 225grFTX. Fat finger syndrome.lol

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #70 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:17:55 AM »

Well i went to the range yesterday with my new warranty barrel marked SB2 for my SB1 44mag handi. i shot cast bullets of several weights as well as hornady 265g FTX and Hornady 265g Flat points, i also tried Rem 180g factory and Win white box 240 JSP. I used 2400 powder in all my reloads. the best i could do off sandbags on a concrete bench with a 3x9 Bushnell set at 9 x was about a 2.5inch group at 50 yds with the Hornady 265g Flat points behind 16.5 g of 2400 reloads! I shot a total of about 35 rds.
I loctighted the scope base to the barrel and the screws on my scope rings. this rifle has a professionally improved trigger.
I plan to bracket that 16.5 grains of 2400 and load up some more 265g FPs . and give her another try soon. I am cleaning the bore with "wipe out" before i shoot again. Hopefully that new bore is fouled and a little cleaning will make her the tack driver i was hoping for!!
I am open to suggestions on different loads to try?
Bull

cwlongshot · « **Reply #71 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:32:55 AM »

Consistancy is of the utmost importance. Also be sure the latch is clean and dry. You can try forend off too to see what that does.

Don't rest on the barrel and keep the barrel off any hard surfaces. With sand bags support the action and Under the spacer then again on the butt.

Snap the barrel closed with the same force, don't gingerly close it.

Again what and how ever you shoot it, do it the same every time...

CW

PS, I am just waiting for all the comments on your cleaning the barrel and how it is a detriment to accuracy...

I keep mine clean too and I have some real good shooters!

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #72 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:44:00 AM »

I took the forend off yesterday and wiped all oil off all the mating surfaces.I shoot it off the sandbags with the sandbag resting on the forend up against the trigger guard everytime. I just reviewed my reloading log and Lymans 49th, i was shooting reloads worked up for my original barrel, perhaps this new barrel likes a little different powder level or bullet weight?? we will see soon.
CW,
thanks for the tips, i too plan to snap her closed everytime, I yearn for a real good shooter, like so many on this forum talk about!!
Bull

cwlongshot · « **Reply #73 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:54:16 AM »

YES, I agree you should def try different bullet weights, manufacturers and powers.

OIL on the latch is a big one, it gets there easily too, same for the powder residue, when these guns are stored butt down any oil can end up on the latch and you not even realize. Powder res on the latch form firing does the same thing... make it a habit to remove the barrel and clean the latch and shelf every range trip!

CW

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #74 on:** April 01, 2012, 03:06:42 AM »

CW,
I don't store any of my long guns butt down-- all muzzle down. thanks for the tip on cleaning the latch every trip.
Who woulda thought that a $250 break action rifle would be so dam finicky??
do you put rubber washers under your forend screw? I noticed when my gun came back from Ilion that my rubber washers had been removed! what is your take on this rubber washer thing??
Bull

cwlongshot · « **Reply #75 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:01:11 AM »

I like the rubber washers better then the "O" ring trick!!

Some guns you will see no difference, while others its like flicking a switch... It all depends on your forend...

GOOD show on storing them muzzle down. I do the same...

Good luck,
CW

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #76 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:12:28 AM »

I would always recommend H-110/W- 296 for the 44 mag. My 44 likes 24.0 gr of the powder under a Hornady 240 gr XTP, that is a standard loading for the 44 and that bullet for me. Hornady's 8th edition reloading manual goes up to 24.8 with the 110 powder and LilGun powder is listed at 22.2gr under the same bullet. I have not worked with the LilGun in the 44 yet, but love it in the 357 and 45 colt loads I run. DP

gcrank1 · « **Reply #77 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:27:52 AM »

FWIW, after a year of shooting a Martini MkIII International, 22LR, c/w 20x off a bench about every other day I learned a few thngs.(and many years prior involved in various types of match shooting)
1) I am the biggest detriment to accuracy
1) if I did it right the holes are in the same place
2) the consistent front rest position, bag firmness, pocket for the forearm, etc. is important
3) the back end steers the gun
Maybe #3 should have been #2........
You gotta sit the same, place your feet the same, lean into the bench the same, put your elbows in the same place, grip the same, **place the gunbutt on your shoulder in EXACTLY the same place, and squeeze each shot off the same.
On that gunbutt: If it isnt in the same place on your shoulder each shot the gun recoil impulse will pull the shot to different locations on the target. Yes, even a 22/LR std.velo. target round in an 14# rifle will do it. Heavier recoiling calibers in light rifles are worse. I have seen the groups, shot by friends who applied the above techniques, shrink their groups by 50% with no other changes, on the same day as they shot the larger groups.

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #78 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:46:36 AM »

i appreciate the input Gcrank, I'll try your techniques next time out to the range. I have noticed that over the last year or so my 7mm08 is shooting smaller groups no matter what loads and bullet weights i use?? perhaps it was ME that was not being consistent?? well keeping everything the same makes since, thanks again!
Bull

moorepower · « **Reply #79 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:01:06 AM »

I have two questions. What is the trigger pull, and do you still have the straight stock used for iron sights?

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #80 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:41:22 AM »

answer 1-i have a black synthetic stock and no iron sights.
answer 2- the trigger pull is about 3-4 lbs on a professionally tuned trigger. I paid a reputable gunsmith to tune my trigger. it was worse than horrible before the trigger job!
bull

thejanitor · « **Reply #81 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:30:41 AM »

Not trying to beat a dead horse but if the lead bullets are undersized to the bore diameter new barrel or not it will not shoot really well. Maybe you slugged the bore and are good to go, sorry to bring it back up. also if you have only tried one powder that could be something, I am sure many here are sick of hearing of my 7-08 and how poor it shot for 6 yrs (hunted fine but shots were 150 yds or less) but it was never under 2" at 100 yds... last fall I read here when 44man posted a recipe for his and now it shoots a very good group. So it could be something like that too, I am not saying anything bad about you, just trying to offer what seems to be kind of a consistant answer to many calibers -more so with cast bullets.
Hope you figure it out, thejanitor

gcrank1 · « **Reply #82 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:56:15 AM »

And, if I may (again) offer up that it is the cast bullet fit to the all important throat (if it is at least bore dia.) rather than the bore itself. The easiest check is to put your available cast bullets into a fully fire-formed case mouth. If they 'fall' in, they are too small, plain and simple.

moorepower · « **Reply #83 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:35:21 AM »

Quote from: Bull Nutria on April 01, 2012, 05:41:22 AM

answer 1-i have a black synthetic stock and no iron sights.
answer 2- the trigger pull is about 3-4 lbs on a professionally tuned trigger. I paid a reputable gunsmith to tune my trigger. it was worse than horrible before the trigger job!
bull

If you have the factory straight stock, it can be hard to repeat cheek weld looking through the scope and cause the problems you are having. It does not take much to change the sight picture looking through the scope.

av-doctor · « **Reply #84 on:** April 01, 2012, 01:41:35 PM »

seems like your pushing them a little slow. 16.5 w/265gr, i'm using the 240gr xtp and it didn't really tighten up the group till i got up to 20+

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #85 on:** April 01, 2012, 01:51:48 PM »

i went back to the range this PM with fresh reloads, I tried 3 powder levels of 2400 with the 265g FP, best i could do was 2 inches at 50 yds off solid bench with sand bags, also tried 3 powder levels of 210 gr cast bullets, best i could do with this was 1.5-2inches at 50 yds. I was disgusted. I shot 36 rounds.
I remembered that CW had suggested shooting with the forend off. I had about 8 bullets left. 4 jacketed and 4 cast 210 gr. well 3 of the jacketed bullets made one ragged hole and 1 was off to the side an inch or so!! the cast bullets did about 2 inches-- so no improvement there.
Now what? i did notice that my forend is skewed to one side about an 1/8inch and the other side is touching the barrel. I will put some rubber washers in before i shoot again, cuz i am not going around shooting a rifle without a forend to hold onto!!
any suggestions are solicited!
Bull

av-doctor · « **Reply #86 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:02:27 PM »

its pretty common with syn forends i beleive its in the faqs about floating and forend fixes, are you crimping? i'm told 2400 needs a pretty good crimp for reliable ignition.

Bull Nutria · « **Reply #87 on:** April 01, 2012, 03:18:14 PM »

i don't apply a lot of crimp but i could?? i would like to know why 2400 needs lots of crimp?

av-doctor · « **Reply #88 on:** April 01, 2012, 03:55:47 PM »

i don't know about lots but a good firm crimp.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #89 on:** April 01, 2012, 04:53:00 PM »

Well....you shoot groups without a crimp, add a little and shoot groups, add a little more and....on, and on........
Then pick what groups best.
Make sure you make measurements and notes and notes on the targets so you can duplicate the results. Then, when you are out of that can of powder and buy a new one you can start over.
Fun, aint it