Removed the forend and shot even worse !!!

[diego naveira]

Following some advices I read in the FAQs, that sometimes pressision could be afected by the forend. I removed it and the very same loads that grouped 4´at 150 mts, spread to 8´after I removed it.
I guess that pressision issues regarding my .308 H&R seldomly can be linked to the handload. The very same recipe (45 grains R15 and 165 grains Speer hot cor) I use for my Remington Seven .308, and that my father and brother also shoot in their Ruger 77 and Sabatti arms either, groups not wider than 1,5´at that distance. then, I can´t understand why my .308 H&R spreads that much. I tested other recipes, all with the same not-so-good results. I know I cannot ask that much out of this low budget rifle. I bought it as a non bulky replacement rifle if something happens to my other rifle during a boar hunt, but at least I´d like to shot groups about 2,5´at 150 mts.
If someone can give an idea regarding other experiments, I´ll be very thankfull.
 
Regards,
Diego Naveira
Argentina

[OldSchoolRanger]

You have to remember that every gun, in this case barrel shoots better with different loads.  What works in your father and brothers' Ruger 77, and Sabatti, and your Remington doesn't mean that it will shoot well in the Handi.

Go back and check your scope mount, rings, and scope first.  Make sure they are tight, then try again.  Am I reading it correctly?  You currently had 4 feet groups at 150 meters? which spread to 8 feet at 150 meters?

I would put the fore end back on with a spacer, after making sure the scope was properly mounted, and try again.  Remember to put the Handi on the rifle rest just after the hinge pin, and do the same each time.  Good luck.

[cwlongshot]

WELCOME

8' is some "grouping"!!!! I amazed you even can measure them!
If this is a new gun I would simply package it up and return it. I do not remember the accuracy but I gaurenty it's NOT over 8" at 200!!!!!!  Let along 8 FEET!!!!

CW

[sobeit]

I would suspect that he meant to write " (inches) vice ' (feet).....believe we are talking with a Euro spender. Check muzzle crown and more importantly , if , with forend removed , the barrel moves, forend may be keeping barrel aligned.

[OldSchoolRanger]

I would suspect that he meant to write " (inches) vice ' (feet).....believe we are talking with a Euro spender. Check muzzle crown and more importantly , if , with forend removed , the barrel moves, forend may be keeping barrel aligned.

Your partially correct, wrong continent, and currency, but correct side of Atlantic.    I just noticed his location Argentina.

la bienvenida al Sr. Naveira (Welcome Mr. Naveira)

[av-doctor]

have you tried any factory ammo?

[Lon371]

 Are you refering to Inches or centimeters? 4 cen = 1.57 inch  8 cent = 3.15 inches. This would make sense.
 
 On the other hand if you meant inches. I would pack it up as cwlongshot said and send it back. That is more like a slug gun group.
 
Lonny

[quickdtoo]

Diego, are you full length sizing the brass before reloading it? If you only neck size or don't full length size enough, the action won't lock up and you'll get terrible accuracy. And picking a random load that shoots well in another rifle isn't the best way to find accuracy, working those loads up from start data is the way to go. 

Sending it to H&R for repair isn't an option for Argentina that I know of, Canadians have a repair source, but there's no other international repair source listed on the repair page. http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

Tim

Regards,
Diego Naveira
Argentina

[diego naveira]

Thanks to you all. Excuse my ´ instead of ´´ mistake. I´m talking about inches, not feet.
Regarding scope-mout-ring issue, I´ve checked it several times and everything is ok. Regarding the loads I´ve tested, I understand that not every load is suitable to every rifle, but what I mean is that a classic recipe as I used cannot go from 1 inch to 4, aside that other loads were tested.
Anyway I gave my gun to a competent gunsmith and apparently, there is a slight lateral, almost unnoticeable, movement of the barrel when action is closed. I tested the rifle yesterday with tin paper on both sides of the barrel in order to have some preasure on it with the action closed. In that way I could decrease the movement. At 50 metres the same load shot 1,8 inches withoout the tin paper and 0,9 inches with the tin paper placed. The issue now is how to replace the tin paper (I can use it just in the range as an experiment) by a permanent solution.
 
Open to suggestions !!!
 
Regards to you all and thanks again
 
Diego Naveira

[revbc]

Shimming the barrel will help your accuracy if it is loose.  However, as Tim stated, how are you sizing the brass, neck or FL?  Consistent lockup is the key to accuracy for a handi.

[diego naveira]

I´m just resizing the neck. Question: Why does not FL sizing after forming the brass for that chamber itself may afect tha action to lock up? please tech me !!! Is it also suitable FL sizing for bolt actions or just for the H&R´s?
Another discovery... my gunsmith has just phoned to tell me that the caliber of the bore is not consistent all it´s way through the barrel. The first four inches is .307; the next ten inches, .309; the rest, .310. Is this common, will it change as I keep on shooting in order to standarize the bore diameter? Should I drop the rifle in a bargain store?
 
Regards,
Diego Naveira

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Diego:   please confirm for me, is the barrel .307 for the first 4 inches? Do you mean from the chamber it is .307 towards the muzzle, then getting LARGER in diameter is you go towards the muzzle?

[revbc]

Frame flex.  The frame will flex some on firing causing the brass to be ever so slightly longer than the chamber.  Bolt guns cam in with the bolt.  You get like a crush fit with neck sized brass in the bolt gun.  Just closing the receiver will not do it on a crack barrel.

As far as the barrel, shoot it.  It will get better.  Just FL size and move the shoulder back just enough to lock up with no resistance.

[sobeit]

At this time don't worry about about the ammo..worry about the problem. The problem being frame movement. I corrected a TC-TCR that had the same problem. Hinge pin contact. If the barrel moves right to left when locked , the boss (lug) is not making full contact with the hinge pin. I correct my TCR problem with Teflon tape(plumbing supplies) pipe thread sealer/wrap. Cut a piece insert it in the semi circular recess that mates to the hinge pin. Close gun..see if wobble persist...if it does,,add more tape to one side..you can read tape for signs of contact. good luck

[quickdtoo]

I´m just resizing the neck. Question: Why does not FL sizing after forming the brass for that chamber itself may afect tha action to lock up? please tech me !!! Is it also suitable FL sizing for bolt actions or just for the H&R´s?
Another discovery... my gunsmith has just phoned to tell me that the caliber of the bore is not consistent all it´s way through the barrel. The first four inches is .307; the next ten inches, .309; the rest, .310. Is this common, will it change as I keep on shooting in order to standarize the bore diameter? Should I drop the rifle in a bargain store?
 
Regards,
Diego Naveira

See the barrel fitting info in the FAQs and Help sticky, it will tell you how to check the barrel and what to do about it, your gunsmith can take care of it if you aren't comfortable with it.

H&R barrels normally have slightly larger bores at the muzzle than near the chamber, but only by ~.0005", I've measured a bunch of mine, never more than that, the result of being contoured without being stress relieved.

Tim