Author Topic: Unique question  (Read 1135 times)

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Offline spooked

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Unique question
« on: October 31, 2011, 06:31:18 AM »
All you older hands (that includes any age with more than 30 minutes experience), How many different calibers-guages rifle, pistol and shotgun can be reloaded with Unique. :-\   
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Offline JMcDonald

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 07:58:23 AM »
Pretty much anything, really. It is less common in modern manuals, but most manuals over a cuple decades old will have Unique loads for most cartridges.
I've been loading between 15 and 20gr of Unique in my .308. A 30gr Double-Charge will just overflow the case, so such a mistake would be easy to spot. (I did this just out of curiosity). A 15gr load under a ~150gr jacketed bullet should do about 1400-1500fps, while 20gr should make it approach 2000fps.
Over on silencertalk.com LOTS of guys are using Unique for subsonic loads in their .308s (without fillers, BTW). Seems about 6-8gr is ideal for pushing typical-weight bullets (150-200gr) to around 1000fps. Trail Boss is becoming more and more popular for "gallery" loads due to its bulk, but Unique also remains popular because it can still be used in almost anything: I've used it almost exclusively in 9mm, .44mag (mostly in actual "magnum" loads), .410 shotgun, and I recently started playing with it in .308.

Offline spooked

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 08:21:59 AM »
I recently purchased a used Mec 600 jr. set up for 20 ga. 2 3/4 shell 7/8 shot with a charge of unique.. Was wondering about using it for cast bullet loads in my 30-30 and .45 long colt.. :)
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 08:32:41 AM »
It should work great, I use it in all my pistols and my .45-70.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline MZ5

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 08:42:46 AM »
I haven't used Unique in ALL that many cartridges.  I have, however, been successful in every cartridge I've tried it in.  Here's my list of what I use or have used it in:
9mm Luger
10mm automatic
45 automatic
44 Rem. Mag. (I think I'm recalling this correctly)
30-30 Win.
30-06 Spgfld
 
I don't recall that I ever used it in 45-70, and that was back before I kept a load book, so I can't go look.  I expect I'll use it in 308 Win. in the future, but that's a cartridge I've only recently acquired for the first time, so haven't tried it yet.
 
I also have some Trail Boss, and I like it for 'gallery' loads, too.  It would simplify things slightly if I were to just use Unique and ditch the Trail Boss, but Trail Boss' bulkiness sure makes loading easy (basically, load to the shoulder, seat the bullet, and go!).
 
There's no reason I couldn't use Unique in my 223 Rem or 25 WSSM, but I haven't ever made 'gallery' loads with those cartridges.
Have fun!

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 09:30:20 AM »
See the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, it has LOTS of loads using Unique. Remember that it is not the velocity but the pressures that will get you into trouble. Unique will spike in heavier loadings and that dreaded double charge has destroyed more than one gun. It can be avoided thru proper loading technique.
FWIW, you can use the upper cast bullet loads listed in that book for jacketed, though you should follow the admonition to reduce by 10% from top loads for any bullet weight in any caliber and work up since jacketed will have more friction, thus more pressure will be developed, and a bit less velo than lead. There are better powders for jacketed bullets.
Ive successfully used Unique for 30+ years, primarily with cast bullets. Now Im using Trail Boss.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 10:57:22 AM »
If it's a reloadable case it most likely can use a charge of unique powder. It's the oldest available smokeless powder.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 01:09:01 PM »
I've used it in 16 Gauge, 45 Colt and 38 Special. It works very well in 45 Colt either with cast or jacketed.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

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Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 03:22:45 PM »
To add another question, probably best asked of MZ5: How many loads do you get out of a pound of Trail Boss versus a pound of Unique, assuming each can is used for the same cartridge?  I.e. how many .30-30 loads of TB, and how many equivalent .30-30 loads of Unique?  I would think that the TB would run out faster since you use more, but (showing my ignorance as I have never used TB) if specific weight (weight per cubic inch) is lower for TB and it is measured by weight, it may be a wash.

Inquiring minds need to know! ;D

-WH-
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Offline .22-5-40

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 03:36:41 PM »
The only problem, Winter Hawk, is that TrailBoss comes in a 9oz. can!

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 04:00:18 PM »
TB is VERY bulky, and thus its virtue to avoid air space in a case, something I have been concerned with for years shooting cast bullets. A friend gifted me with 1/2 bottle of TB to trial and I bought a whole 5# jug instead of Unique (its cheaper by the jug), and I should mention that Im a frugal guy. I cant exactly tell you how many loads per cal. (7000gr. /lb., you figure it); I consider it a cost effective alternative for my use and with the proper bullet alloy and dia. its working quite well. I cant tell you if it shoots the smallest groups, I just know I hold my own with the competitive boys I shoot with and Im the weak link in the accuracy chain.
BTW, I have NO connection with Hodgdon

"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 04:24:15 PM »
To add another question, probably best asked of MZ5: How many loads do you get out of a pound of Trail Boss versus a pound of Unique, assuming each can is used for the same cartridge?  I.e. how many .30-30 loads of TB, and how many equivalent .30-30 loads of Unique?  I would think that the TB would run out faster since you use more, but (showing my ignorance as I have never used TB) if specific weight (weight per cubic inch) is lower for TB and it is measured by weight, it may be a wash.

Inquiring minds need to know! ;D

-WH-
Basically you'll get about the same number of rounds per lb of powder, as the weight of powder charges of the two are quite similar.
You won't get the accuracy or velocity with trailboss that unique will deliver.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline spooked

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 04:40:08 PM »
Great! Though I've messed with guns fer years I'm very green at reloading. Going slow and asking questions. the question about the Unique was to determine if it would be a good powder to stock jist to keep a variety of arms shooting. I'm living below the poverty level and have to watch the dollars closely. It seems that it might be possible to "make meat" with cast bullets and Unique in most every thing I own. Ya'll are the best!
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 04:45:36 PM »
2400 and bludot are powders that serve well in a variety of uses.
 Unique may not be the best in all cartridges but there's precious few it wouldn't work in.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Swampman

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 11:02:51 PM »
Air space in cases is a non-issue with Unique.  I don't use fillers.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline JMcDonald

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 05:04:21 AM »
I've heard LOTS of people say that if they could only have ONE type of powder for all of their loading, they would use Unique. Nearing the max, you can still load it in a .30-06 and push a 150gr bullet to about 2300-2400fps, getting ~.30-30 ballistics. I copied down the snapshot of a manual someone posted and it was saying 25gr under a 150gr bullet would give you 2400+fps at 60k PSI of pressure. OBVIOUSLY, START WELL BELOW THIS IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PUSHING ANYTHING WITH UNIQUE. Even though most people probably wouldn't be interested in trying to push Unique very far, I think being able to make loads like this that are still perfectly capable of taking Deer and such, but with half the powder and still significantly less recoil and muzzle blast, makes for a great alternative. I mean, toning it down a bit it is still easy to get 2000+fps at a relatively mild ~40k PSI, and it would still be effective at up to 200 yards on medium-sized game. But you'd be using half the powder ($$), have less recoil, and notably less muzzle blast. Out of my rifle, a 17gr load of Unique sounds about like a 9mm handgun, while even 40gr of H335 (a bit below the starting load) has significantly more "bang."
 
Also, FWIW, Unique has about twice the bulk of the H335 rifle powder I use in my .308. That is, my standard load has become 40gr of H335, and without adjusting my powder measure I get almost exactly 20gr of Unique per load. Both of those fill the case to a bit below the shoulder (shaking completed cartridges results in audible powder movement with either powder).

Rifle loading is slow enough for me that I can check every case so I'm not worried about double-charges. Plus since my "starting" Unique loads still fill a hair over half the case, a double-charge would be obvious. However, I can see where one could potentially have issues trying powder charges of about 13-14gr in the case, as a double-charge would be well over max (26-28gr) and would probably even be compressed under a bullet, but the case wouldn't overflow so a careless loader wouldn't have that obvious clue to stop him. Again, in general, I'd say start at a load that fills half the case (unless you are specifically looking to go slower and are willing to take the extra care to check each load), and you shouldn't have a problem. You could potentially even do this by adjusting your measure until two charges will just overflow the case. Half of that should be completely safe and still quite mild.

Offline MZ5

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2011, 08:52:11 AM »
To add another question, probably best asked of MZ5: How many loads do you get out of a pound of Trail Boss versus a pound of Unique, assuming each can is used for the same cartridge?  I.e. how many .30-30 loads of TB, and how many equivalent .30-30 loads of Unique?  I would think that the TB would run out faster since you use more, but (showing my ignorance as I have never used TB) if specific weight (weight per cubic inch) is lower for TB and it is measured by weight, it may be a wash.

Inquiring minds need to know! ;D

-WH-
Basically you'll get about the same number of rounds per lb of powder, as the weight of powder charges of the two are quite similar.

I have found this to be the case, too.  Charge weights are very roughly the same (or quite similar), so the lower-priced powder, on a per pound basis, will be the more economical.  I have found Unique to generally be noticeably lower in price per pound.  There are trade-offs to be made concerning one's preferences for load density (IMR's SR-47xx powders are another bulky alternative for reduced rifle loads), but the higher-load-density rifle powders don't offer the kind of flexibility Unique does for crossing over between pistol and rifle cases.
 
For those who might choose to spend money on these sorts of bases:
Trail Boss is made in Australia by French defense giant Thales (partially French-gov't-owned).
Unique's origin is not known for certain to me.  I believe it to be American-made by American defense giant ATK.
The IMR SR-47xx powders are made in Canada by American defense contractor General Dynamics.

Offline spooked

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 09:52:23 AM »
So, Mc Donald, Unique is sorta like a plug horse(won't pull the biggest load or run the fastest, but will serve faithfully and get the job done)I reckon.. :)
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Offline JMcDonald

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 10:17:26 AM »
Absolutely :) . Unique is a bit dirty, but I won't stop buying it because it is so danged versatile! Everything from .32acp to .308 to .45-70 can be made to work with it, heh. I bought 8lbs when I first started loading .410 and I've since used it in every caliber I've owned, heh.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 11:21:41 AM »
One thing that always makes you grin with unique and the 44 special... it'll load 1000 rounds before you need another can. With 38 spec it'll make 2000...
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Swampman

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2011, 11:27:20 AM »
How do you catch a Unique rabbit?  Unique up on it. ;)
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline KAYR1

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2011, 01:53:35 PM »
What you all said..Unique is one of the few "desert island" powders to have on hand. Does a lot of things well.

Offline JMcDonald

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 05:09:02 PM »
With my 8lbs of Unique, I've loaded about 300 rounds of .410, then about 2800 rounds or so of .44mag (With probably 1500 of them being "full power loads" and the other varied all the way down to about 3.8gr), then in the last ~month about 800 rounds of 9mm and about 80 rounds of .308. I have probably 2-3lbs left. Obviously, most of it was burned in .44mag cases, heh. I'm going to have to buy another jug of it soon :) .

Offline Winter Hawk

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2011, 03:59:18 PM »
How do you catch a Unique rabbit?  Unique up on it. ;)

My ex told me that one in 1976!

-WH-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline .22-5-40

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Re: Unique question
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2011, 06:14:00 PM »
I still have a 1/2 can of Unique in the original (Hercules) round cardboard can.  Like all the above posts said..it's a pretty versitile powder..Perhaps thats why Laflin & Rand named it "Unique"...It was in 1900, and it still is 111 years later.