Author Topic: 357 Max loads? (Read 2749 times)

Monteria · « **on:** November 06, 2011, 04:21:28 AM »

Now that Y'all talked me out of the Herrett and into the Max, and I am in line for the reamer, and I have brass on the way, I have started researching loads.

I am a BIG Hodgdon fan. My mainstay is 4831sc, 4350, 110, 335, Varget, Lil'Gun, etc. But I am not finding a whole lot of Max load data.

What are your favorite Max powders/loads (and velocity) under 158gr jacketed bullets?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2011, 04:44:05 AM »

H110 is Grrrrrrrrrrrreat in the Max.

catncarp · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2011, 04:53:58 AM »

26 imr 4227 with 180 hor ssp at 2225 fps and shoots 1-1/2 at 100 yards

Lon371 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2011, 05:16:26 AM »

Here is a quote from Chuck Hawks website.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/357max.htm

For a more realistic appraisal of the .357 Maximum's performance, let's look at the figures given in the Lyman 47th Reloading Handbook. The Lyman technicians developed their reloads using the 158 grain Hornady JHP bullet and Remington cases. They chronographed maximum loads in a 10" T/C Contender barrel (with the following powders) at velocities of 1630 fps (20.0 grains of IMR 4227), 1669 fps (17.2 grains of #2400), 1675 fps (24.5 grains of RX7), and 1715 fps (20.5 grains of H110). The average MV of those 4 loads is 1672.25 fps. Incidentally, the Lyman, Hodgdon, Nosler, and Speer reloading manuals all recommend the use of rifle (rather than pistol) primers due to the high operating pressure of the .357 Maximum

Here is another good site(site sponsor also)

http://357maximum.com/developing-a-load/

Lonny

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2011, 05:36:15 AM »

http://www.reloadammo.com/357max.htm
There's another good reloading site.I'm partial to Remmy 180 gr, and H110/296.Just slightly over max loads.Killed a coyote with it and will be downing a deer later in December also.

giddens1972 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2011, 06:47:41 AM »

I loaded some 180's with about 19.0 grains of 4198 and they were accurate and not real hot...no bad signs. Probably could go a couple of grains more...but that's up to you. 4227 is really good in the max also!

sambo1022 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2011, 06:56:20 AM »

158 gr. - 160 gr. bullets / 2,400 fps....

100 yd. velocity / 1,922 fps....... ft. lbs. energy / 1,295...

200 yd. velocity / 1,512 fps....... ft. lbs. energy / 803...

100 yd. zero / 8.1" low at 200 yds...

CASE: Remington 357 Maximum

PRIMER: Remington 7 1/2

POWDER: Winchester 296 / 21.0 gr.

BULLET: Remington 158 gr. J.S.P.

VELOCITY: 2,088 fps.

...

CASE: Remington 357 Maximum

PRIMER: Remington 7 1/2

POWDER: Winchester 296 / 23.0 gr.

BULLET: Remington 158 gr. J.S.P.

VELOCITY: 2,227 fps.

...

CASE: Remington 357 Maximum

PRIMER:Remington 7 1/2

POWDER: Winchester 296 / 25.0 gr.

BULLET: Remington 158 gr. J.S.P.

VELOCITY: 2,445 fps

*Courtesy of an Oklahoma gunsmith
Barrel 24" with 1:20" twist

gendoc · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2011, 07:37:34 AM »

180gr xtp
20gr imr-4227 near max @ 37077 psi
rem brass
cci srp
1896 fps
right at 1500 fpe

.58" @50yrds / .66" @100yrds

Monteria · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2011, 09:01:32 AM »

H110 it is. Thanks!

revbc · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2011, 09:10:49 AM »

I like AA1680 for jacketed loads and Lil Gun for my Ranch Dogs (cast) USE WITH CAUTION THE 1680 IS OVER MAX

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2011, 11:32:02 AM »

I have been shooting the maxi since it was new, in 1983. I have had four guns chambered for it thru the years. Kinda like the song, I was country when country was not cool...

In all my guns AA1680 powder produced the best accuracy. (H110/296 and IMR/H4227 all showed good promise and should not be counted out)

Hornady 180Gr SSP the best Performance on game, closely followed by the 180 XTP and Nosler Partition bullets. The Hornady 158 XTPFP is a very good bullet for stretching the range a bit, but avoid bones if the range is short.

I have been using the Rem SR primers in Rem and Fed cases. (Fed cases not around any longer.)

Some NO-NO's on game... HP bullets and bullets lighter than 158 Grs. Bullets heavier are OK but I feel the 180 offers the best balance of velocity and energy. The newer Hornady 200 Gr FTX could be a good one but needs more testing. Another up and comer is the 170SP form Speer in the deep Curl line. This would boost vel while offering a controlled expansion bullet. IF its tough enough for the maxi velocities... That a big IF...

I haven't gotten stellar velocity with the shorter bullets. But the old Sierra 150 Gr and the Speer 160 Gr half jackets Sp's showed promise. But again these are no longer in production...

CW

Monteria · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2011, 12:10:24 PM »

Here in TX, our deer are pretty small bodied, requiring a substancially lower sectional density than you would use on mid-western or north eastern deer. Based on velocity expectations and sectional density, I have chosen to start with 158gr Hornady XTP FP's. I think that the HP's would expand to violently if anything substantial were hit, but the FP's should do well, I think...

Eventually, I'll probably play with the same bullet in 180gr for bigger hogs.

giddens1972 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2011, 01:47:34 PM »

@cwlongshot...have you ever used 4198 in the max?

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2011, 02:05:33 PM »

Just FYI, according to Western Powders AA1680 is the slowest powder practical in the Max case, and according to them it is virtually impossible to overcharge with that powder. I have read of folks using as much as 30gr with no untoward results, but it seems that best accuracy in most guns will be found in the 27-28gr range. YMMV. As always, approach upper level loads with caution. Here endeth the epistle. Goatwhiskers the Elder

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2011, 02:08:45 PM »

Quote from: giddens1972 on November 06, 2011, 01:47:34 PM

@cwlongshot...have you ever used 4198 in the max?

No I have not, I did just try RE7 with the 200 FTX, accuracy was OK but vel is too low...

CW

giddens1972 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2011, 02:52:51 PM »

I am hoping to try some hotter loads of 4198 than what i have so far...they were accurate but I could tell by the cases they were really low pressure. I'm thinking they might do well...but I'll have to see. May hit a velocity wall with the 4198, not sure.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2011, 02:59:34 PM »

Quote from: giddens1972 on November 06, 2011, 02:52:51 PM

I am hoping to try some hotter loads of 4198 than what i have so far...they were accurate but I could tell by the cases they were really low pressure. I'm thinking they might do well...but I'll have to see. May hit a velocity wall with the 4198, not sure.

I doubt you will get enough velocity from that powder... BE CAREFUL your in "no man's" land... To me its "healthier" to simply use recommended powders like those recommended here. Simply having X Powder on your shelf is not reason enough to try it...

CW

giddens1972 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2011, 03:07:24 PM »

I actually started with the 4198 because I know an oldtimer that used it to shoot silhouettes with it and did so for many years...and I found the load listed somewhere. It was a hotter load than what I tried, because I did back off. I am guessing that more might perform well but, I'm not gonna blow myself up trying either!

TNBilly · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:57:19 PM »

not directed at you Goatwiskers.....
In this case AA would be absolutely wrong. While I like most everyone I've read, has had good luck with the 28gr load, I started having case (new R-P) failures at 29.5 gr. Wasn't one of my more pleasant experiences. My opinion is anyone wanting to experiment out of the published had better have something stronger than a Handi.

Quote from: Goatwhiskers on November 06, 2011, 02:05:33 PM

Just FYI, according to Western Powders AA1680 is the slowest powder practical in the Max case, and according to them it is virtually impossible to overcharge with that powder. I have read of folks using as much as 30gr with no untoward results, but it seems that best accuracy in most guns will be found in the 27-28gr range. YMMV. As always, approach upper level loads with caution. Here endeth the epistle. Goatwhiskers the Elder

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2011, 01:13:22 AM »

My compliments to you TnBilly. There are so many careless people in the reloading game. Of course I do stand by what the ballistician told me, it ties in with what many have found when loading lighter loads with 1680 and having soot on the case, which indicates too low pressure causing the case to not seal against the chamber properly. That having been said, in Your gun with Your brass, you did exactly the right thing and backed off. I don't really anticipate going more than maybe 28.5gr if that, as my search is for accuracy, not speed and I have many more combos of bullet/powder to try. Goatwhiskers

frgerald · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2011, 11:00:10 AM »

I have been reading here and at least one other place that the Western ballistician said that 1680 was "too slow" to cause problems?

I looked at the Accurate website and their description of 1680 is that it is "an extremely fast burning powder"

What's the deal? I am not trying to start anything because I know nothing about it just pointing out what I have been seeing before using any???

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2011, 11:13:38 AM »

Haven't gone to a burn rate comparison chart to refresh my teflon memory. What they said is that 1680 is the slowest practical powder in that straight-walled case. A bottle necked case may and probably would produce drastically different results. I had inquired about using slower powders in the Max and was told that slower burn rate powders would not burn properly. Interior ballistics is fascinating, but can get you in a lot of trouble. Goatwhiskers

JSLHandgunner · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2011, 05:48:03 AM »

I use 28.5gr. of 1680 with a 180 ssp Hornady bullet. Extremely accurate point blank from 50-150yds. It will knock whitetail off there Ass. Love this rifle compact and no recoil.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2011, 06:20:15 AM »

I don't have any data I front of me, but I remember back before the maxi was so popular, our leader Bill, calling me out for posting up my near 2200fps with this powder and a 180SSP bullet. His claims where sound. He told me I do not have pressure equipment and what I was doing was dangerous. My loadings are safe in my barrels. But, most of the charges posted here is far and above any loading I have done!

My loading of this powder stopped at 26gr. Now I never like to post charges because what's safe in mine very likely will not be in yours. But never would I post a charge I knew was over what my Manuel dictated. Reguard less of it being safe in my barrel or not.

Again no manuel here but if I remember about 27 or so was max.... Seeing postings of at or near 30 grains is a huge potential problem!!! I will check my notes and Manuel's later to confirm.

I just would like to take a moment and remind folks of safety. Please load carefully and NEVER take ANYONE'S data as gospel!!! Check and double check!!

CW

yukondog · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2011, 07:30:37 AM »

Hornday man. 4th edition pg.578 showes AA1680 min. 21.9 max. 25.3 180 sspb.
AA Man. #2 showes AA1680 min.23.9 max. 26.5 41,000 cup. Never take the word of another re loader I always double check the bullet or powder manufactures manual.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2011, 08:13:18 AM »

Here's Accurate's old data when the SAAMI max pressure was 48kcup for the Maxi, current max is 40kpsi.

Tim

Dinny · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2011, 03:45:09 PM »

I use 28gr of AA1680 with the Hornady 180gr SS-PB. In three of the different rifles I have had, this load produced sub-moa at 100yds. In a couple of them it produces 5/8" 3-shot groups at 100yds.

Thanks, Dinny

ipyrek · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2011, 02:15:39 AM »

Does anyone else have trouble finding AA1680 ? Looks good for Max load. I've tried searching my area in the thumb of Michigan, with no luck, or just havn't found the right place that has it. I kind of hate to order some with all the extra shipping charges.

yukondog · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2011, 02:23:30 AM »

I have good luck with H-110 but want to try AA 1680, they dont have it around where live in FL. but I have seen it in AL. about 60 mi. away may have to make a road trip.

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2011, 03:09:28 AM »

Just for the sake of giving folks something to think about, most if not all of the data I have in loading manuals is for pistols, not rifles. Makes some, but not a difference to argue about. I refer you to ".357Maximum.com", the Accurate Arms pressure data section. The referenced pressures are actual measured pressure, not something calculated. That being said, it still gets back to differences in the gun being shot, they are all different. There are some interesting comments about cartridge over-all length and effect on pressure, also throat length as it pertains to ability to load longer. I don't know, but I suspect that some guns have been chambered with a pistol reamer which gives a much shorter throat and creates a whole new ball game. I shoot only cast in mine and as the throat is long I can seat behind the crimp groove, usually crimping in the grease groove and have no signs of pressure with loads giving me 1800-2100fps. YMMV. One thing I like about this forum is the fact that we can discuss without someone flaming the other over their thoughts and opinions. Goatwhiskers